Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rossihunter2]

So I'll be honest... I defended that deal at the time.

The reality is... in terms of AAV, they gave nearly the same deal to Crabtree. Granted, it was a shorter deal with less guaranteed money, but the Grant deal was like $14.5M guaranteed. For context, they're paying Willie Snead like $6M a year, and he has equally a garbage resume as Grant and he's actually played here already.

I was wrong about Grant (obviously) but I liked the deal because he was younger than most of our FA signings, the guaranteed money wasn't that much (nor was the AAV), and if you actually gave him the volume of a #1 or #2 WR, I think his stats would have been significantly better, because his efficiency on the targets he was getting was actually quite good.

That being said... neither of those deals (Crabtree or Grant) would have been worth anything to us.

oh i absolutely defended the deal - in hindsight i was wrong - like you i kind of justified it by the traits he had and that the production would come off the back of it but evidently that would have been a bad signing

 

[RavensMania]

So I'll be honest... I defended that deal at the time.

The reality is... in terms of AAV, they gave nearly the same deal to Crabtree. Granted, it was a shorter deal with less guaranteed money, but the Grant deal was like $14.5M guaranteed. For context, they're paying Willie Snead like $6M a year, and he has equally a garbage resume as Grant and he's actually played here already.

I was wrong about Grant (obviously) but I liked the deal because he was younger than most of our FA signings, the guaranteed money wasn't that much (nor was the AAV), and if you actually gave him the volume of a #1 or #2 WR, I think his stats would have been significantly better, because his efficiency on the targets he was getting was actually quite good.

That being said... neither of those deals (Crabtree or Grant) would have been worth anything to us.

I was one that defended the deal as well. Watched Grant play for the Skins and was a good route runner, just not used a bunch, but the main reason I liked the deal is that it was easy to get out from under the deal due to the small amount of guaranteed money. I didn't see the deal being longer than a two year deal as that is when it escalated.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

I've been beating this drum for at least 5 years now. There is no worse position in my eyes to attack in FA than WR. The stud one's are pretty much never available, and the price tag for the mid-tier guys shoots through the roof in FA.

I don't mind the Snead-like signings, because they're cheap and carry practically no risk. But if you're shopping in the $10-15M range for WRs, which is what it would take to sign somebody like a Robby Anderson, I'm staying far away there.

Yeah, the Snead-like signings are absolutely fine, but we shouldn't be looking at any other FA WRs when we have other positions of more need and, on top of that, the upcoming draft is supposed to be loaded with WR talent. Also, we've already got a decent foundation for our WR group because Hollywood is only going to get better as he gets back to full health and Boykin has already flashed lots of potential (just needs to get more consistent and he could be a huge weapon).

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah, the Snead-like signings are absolutely fine, but we shouldn't be looking at any other FA WRs when we have other positions of more need and, on top of that, the upcoming draft is supposed to be loaded with WR talent. Also, we've already got a decent foundation for our WR group because Hollywood is only going to get better as he gets back to full health and Boykin has already flashed lots of potential (just needs to get more consistent and he could be a huge weapon).

i mean i like boykin but im not going to rely on him to live up to that potential - we need weapons

 

[rmcjacket23]

i mean i like boykin but im not going to rely on him to live up to that potential - we need weapons

Think its a combination of both. The worst thing you can do is basically "write off" Boykin are a rookie season where he probably didn't live up to expectations. I know you're not saying write him off, but realistically, if you use either a day 1 or even day 2 draft pick on a WR, you're already expecting that player to be ahead of Boykin on the depth chart. So realistically, said WR is basically #2 or #3 at worst on the WR depth chart. In an offense like this, that runs the ball so effectively AND uses the TE as much as we do, a #2 or #3 WR is probably just never going to have monsterous production in my eyes.

I think you need additional talent at the position, but that's mostly because Brown isn't your chain moving, big body receiver, and Snead is pretty much just an average WR that's a great blocker. Behind that, your depth is obviously pretty non-existent, with guys like Roberts, Moore, etc.

So while I think we should and will address the WR position relatively early in the draft, I think automatically downgrading a guy like Boykin after a rookie season like that is doing us a disservice when it comes to talent development. I'd like to see us using a day 2 pick on a WR (and probably taking a developmental one later on), with the idea of that guy competing with Boykin, and allowing those players to improve through competition.

If he doesn't develop, so be it. But its pretty hard to evaluate that after a single season.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

i mean i like boykin but im not going to rely on him to live up to that potential - we need weapons

Which is understandable as long as we're not overpaying for a guy like Robby Anderson. I just think we're in a better spot than we have been for a while when it comes to our WR group and we shouldn't be reaching for any of the FA WRs.

 

[JAAM]

Which is understandable as long as we're not overpaying for a guy like Robby Anderson. I just think we're in a better spot than we have been for a while when it comes to our WR group and we shouldn't be reaching for any of the FA WRs.

I think Robby is overestimating his market. No way he gets the money he’s asking for. Plus, he seems like a Lamar fan, so we might be able to sign him for a fair price. He’d be a huge addition.

 

[Simba]

I'd honestly be surprised if the FA WR addition is anything more than a cheap flyer on a lower tier FA or a guy that gets cut (a la Seth Roberts last year). I don't see a big monetary investment, and I don't really think we should unless someone like AJ Green just doesn't have the market expected. You have Hollywood at hopefully 100%. Snead is a solid WR3/4 option. Boykin is an unknown, but I still have hopes for him. We could be a lot better, but also a lot worse. Save that money for a bigger need (...front 7...) and draft one in a super deep WR draft class. I just don't see us throwing around big $ of a bunch of underwhelming options.

I was against Dez a couple of years back, but now that he'd like to play here, I'd much rather do that on a cheap 1 year deal than spend big on a Robby Anderson type.

 

[rossihunter2]

Think its a combination of both. The worst thing you can do is basically "write off" Boykin are a rookie season where he probably didn't live up to expectations. I know you're not saying write him off, but realistically, if you use either a day 1 or even day 2 draft pick on a WR, you're already expecting that player to be ahead of Boykin on the depth chart. So realistically, said WR is basically #2 or #3 at worst on the WR depth chart. In an offense like this, that runs the ball so effectively AND uses the TE as much as we do, a #2 or #3 WR is probably just never going to have monsterous production in my eyes.

I think you need additional talent at the position, but that's mostly because Brown isn't your chain moving, big body receiver, and Snead is pretty much just an average WR that's a great blocker. Behind that, your depth is obviously pretty non-existent, with guys like Roberts, Moore, etc.

So while I think we should and will address the WR position relatively early in the draft, I think automatically downgrading a guy like Boykin after a rookie season like that is doing us a disservice when it comes to talent development. I'd like to see us using a day 2 pick on a WR (and probably taking a developmental one later on), with the idea of that guy competing with Boykin, and allowing those players to improve through competition.

If he doesn't develop, so be it. But its pretty hard to evaluate that after a single season.

which is why im not writing him off - i like him and he's definitely going to get snaps next year just because of how good he's been as a blocker downfield in the running game even if we dont increase the volume of passing in the offence in general - but he's still pretty raw and outside of the redzone is winning only with his physical tools but he's not sudden enough to get quick separation without adding more nuance to his route-running - there's no reason to think he wont make a leap but all im saying is that we cant rely on that and there's no harm in adding competition - especially better competition and if boykin wins that competition then great but at the moment he's going to be WR 3 by default

 

[rossihunter2]

I'd honestly be surprised if the FA WR addition is anything more than a cheap flyer on a lower tier FA or a guy that gets cut (a la Seth Roberts last year). I don't see a big monetary investment, and I don't really think we should unless someone like AJ Green just doesn't have the market expected. You have Hollywood at hopefully 100%. Snead is a solid WR3/4 option. Boykin is an unknown, but I still have hopes for him. We could be a lot better, but also a lot worse. Save that money for a bigger need (...front 7...) and draft one in a super deep WR draft class. I just don't see us throwing around big $ of a bunch of underwhelming options.

I was against Dez a couple of years back, but now that he'd like to play here, I'd much rather do that on a cheap 1 year deal than spend big on a Robby Anderson type.

i agree - cheaper guys coming off down years and then go after someone in the draft - but we're going to need to bring in quite a few guys - at the moment we've only got 4 receivers who were on the 53 on the roster and 1 of them is jaleel scott... and then we've only got antoine wesley and sean modster coming back from the practice squad (i like antoine wesley but he's not a solution to this problem) - we're going to have to acquire multiple players at the position from a variety of different places and i dont think any of them are going to cost a lot

EDIT: i suppose there's 5 receivers if you include de'anthony thomas

 

[JAAM]

I'd honestly be surprised if the FA WR addition is anything more than a cheap flyer on a lower tier FA or a guy that gets cut (a la Seth Roberts last year). I don't see a big monetary investment, and I don't really think we should unless someone like AJ Green just doesn't have the market expected. You have Hollywood at hopefully 100%. Snead is a solid WR3/4 option. Boykin is an unknown, but I still have hopes for him. We could be a lot better, but also a lot worse. Save that money for a bigger need (...front 7...) and draft one in a super deep WR draft class. I just don't see us throwing around big $ of a bunch of underwhelming options.

I was against Dez a couple of years back, but now that he'd like to play here, I'd much rather do that on a cheap 1 year deal than spend big on a Robby Anderson type.

Surround your shiny new toy with the likes of Dez Bryant lol. The Chiefs are about to win the Super Bowl because of a high octane offense, and poor Lamar will be stuck with Dez, Seth, Snead and another training camp favorite in Boykin. Come on, we should’ve learned from the Flacco era. Sign Robby and draft another WR high. We’ll still have money left for a good front 7 guy.

 

[rossihunter2]

some interesting context for why we cant backload deals even if we wanted to right now:

 

[JAAM]

Do we have enough cap to sign someone like Chris Jones or Yannick if they hit the market?

 

[rmcjacket23]

Do we have enough cap to sign someone like Chris Jones or Yannick if they hit the market?

We have enough cap to sign anybody in FA. Its just a question of whether you want to commit most of your cap resources to one player, or if you want to upgrade a bunch of positions.

I don't think Yannick is really a consideration, because I don't see a path where he's ever on the open market.

I think we'll be players in FA, but I don't think we'll be in the giving out $15-20M per year contract-type players, unless they are our own players.

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

If we're going to spend most of our cap on one player then I'd be ecstatic to spend it on Chris Jones. Dude is a BEAST and hurts one of our main rivals in the AFC.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Surround your shiny new toy with the likes of Dez Bryant lol. The Chiefs are about to win the Super Bowl because of a high octane offense, and poor Lamar will be stuck with Dez, Seth, Snead and another training camp favorite in Boykin. Come on, we should’ve learned from the Flacco era. Sign Robby and draft another WR high. We’ll still have money left for a good front 7 guy.

Couple problems I have with this:

1. I'm not a Robby Anderson fan, so I certainly don't want to pay the price for him. That being said, he'll slot in probably around $12-15M per year.

2. A "good front 7 guy", like a Yannick or Jones (who we won't get), is probably going to slot in around $18M a year.

So best case, it'll cost you $30M to sign both of those players, which for now, is about all we have to spend.

So you've upgraded WR, but you're either net neutral in the front 7 or actually lost some, because you now can't resign Pierce or Judon.

You also won't be able to retain Jimmy Smith, and will likely only be able to retain Brandon Carr IF Yanda retires, which either way opens up another whole somewhere. Maybe you can keep Carr if you cut Jefferson, but even then, you're only getting worse at the position.

And at this point, you essentially have no money left over. You can't extend Stanley or really anybody else on your team that you'd want to, and so everything else comes from the draft.

So in the draft, you're advocating using either a day 1 or day 2 pick on a WR, who at best, will be like the 4th or 5th option in the passing game, and that's assuming they play well.

Meanwhile, you're looking at needing at least 1-2 interior lineman (one as a starter and one as depth), you still need at least one more edge rusher, and you basically need about 3 more linebackers, since a lot of your ILB core (Bynes and Onwausor) are FAs and are not guaranteed to be back.

This is why I wouldn't be expecting the Ravens to be shopping in the "big bin" in FA. They can address needs and add a really good player probably, but this idea of paying top market value for two guys this offseason isn't likely in my opinion.

 

[Charm City]

Couple problems I have with this:

1. I'm not a Robby Anderson fan, so I certainly don't want to pay the price for him. That being said, he'll slot in probably around $12-15M per year.

2. A "good front 7 guy", like a Yannick or Jones (who we won't get), is probably going to slot in around $18M a year.

So best case, it'll cost you $30M to sign both of those players, which for now, is about all we have to spend.

So you've upgraded WR, but you're either net neutral in the front 7 or actually lost some, because you now can't resign Pierce or Judon.

You also won't be able to retain Jimmy Smith, and will likely only be able to retain Brandon Carr IF Yanda retires, which either way opens up another whole somewhere. Maybe you can keep Carr if you cut Jefferson, but even then, you're only getting worse at the position.

And at this point, you essentially have no money left over. You can't extend Stanley or really anybody else on your team that you'd want to, and so everything else comes from the draft.

So in the draft, you're advocating using either a day 1 or day 2 pick on a WR, who at best, will be like the 4th or 5th option in the passing game, and that's assuming they play well.

Meanwhile, you're looking at needing at least 1-2 interior lineman (one as a starter and one as depth), you still need at least one more edge rusher, and you basically need about 3 more linebackers, since a lot of your ILB core (Bynes and Onwausor) are FAs and are not guaranteed to be back.

This is why I wouldn't be expecting the Ravens to be shopping in the "big bin" in FA. They can address needs and add a really good player probably, but this idea of paying top market value for two guys this offseason isn't likely in my opinion.

With how strong the WR class is, we will probably avoid making a big signing in free agency like you stated. The ILB class on the otherhand is poor, so paying someone like Joe Schobert or Blake Martinez who will cost around 10 mil/year makes a lot more sense. I think this is the route we will probably take

 

[Grim]

Cooper also has a tendency to completely disappear in games. I really don't like the FA class of WRs this year and think we should just improve there through the draft.

That’s true as well. I don’t think we need to buy an AJ Green but I don’t think we’ll go through FA without signing a FA WR.

I've been beating this drum for at least 5 years now. There is no worse position in my eyes to attack in FA than WR. The stud one's are pretty much never available, and the price tag for the mid-tier guys shoots through the roof in FA.

I don't mind the Snead-like signings, because they're cheap and carry practically no risk. But if you're shopping in the $10-15M range for WRs, which is what it would take to sign somebody like a Robby Anderson, I'm staying far away there.

That’s a good point honestly regarding FA WR. It’s rare that they ever produce what you hoped they would. We can look at various WR signed as FA who’ve not produced. Alshon is one of the few exceptions. That said, I think we’ll sign a low tier WR and we probably should. Nobody expensive but someone with ST promise who may help on offense.

exactly - look how much we nearly paid ryan grant - i liked ryan grant as a player but that would be a wild contract for his resume at that point

So I'll be honest... I defended that deal at the time.

The reality is... in terms of AAV, they gave nearly the same deal to Crabtree. Granted, it was a shorter deal with less guaranteed money, but the Grant deal was like $14.5M guaranteed. For context, they're paying Willie Snead like $6M a year, and he has equally a garbage resume as Grant and he's actually played here already.

I was wrong about Grant (obviously) but I liked the deal because he was younger than most of our FA signings, the guaranteed money wasn't that much (nor was the AAV), and if you actually gave him the volume of a #1 or #2 WR, I think his stats would have been significantly better, because his efficiency on the targets he was getting was actually quite good.

That being said... neither of those deals (Crabtree or Grant) would have been worth anything to us.

oh i absolutely defended the deal - in hindsight i was wrong - like you i kind of justified it by the traits he had and that the production would come off the back of it but evidently that would have been a bad signing

I was one that defended the deal as well. Watched Grant play for the Skins and was a good route runner, just not used a bunch, but the main reason I liked the deal is that it was easy to get out from under the deal due to the small amount of guaranteed money. I didn't see the deal being longer than a two year deal as that is when it escalated.

I didn’t like the Grant signing and still don’t. I’m not sure I believe the narrative that we pulled a fast one with his physical either; however, I didn’t like the signing at all. Mainly because of the comp pick for what I thought he would provide in ROI.

Yeah, the Snead-like signings are absolutely fine, but we shouldn't be looking at any other FA WRs when we have other positions of more need and, on top of that, the upcoming draft is supposed to be loaded with WR talent. Also, we've already got a decent foundation for our WR group because Hollywood is only going to get better as he gets back to full health and Boykin has already flashed lots of potential (just needs to get more consistent and he could be a huge weapon).

I think we hope Boykin, Brown, Scott & Wesley do something in training camp. You have to think that’s the hope we have this year. I don’t mind the Snead signings either nor the Roberts signing because they were low risk and low key. They also didn’t cost comp picks. I’m not one to avoid signing players to preserve comp picks when warranted; however, I don’t want to do it for a low tier guy who won’t help much either. I’d rather have the next year rookie.

i mean i like boykin but im not going to rely on him to live up to that potential - we need weapons

I wouldn’t rely on him. He has potential but he could be another Tandon Doss kind of guy. Then again, he could also turn up and develop into a threat too. We will soon see.

Think its a combination of both. The worst thing you can do is basically "write off" Boykin are a rookie season where he probably didn't live up to expectations. I know you're not saying write him off, but realistically, if you use either a day 1 or even day 2 draft pick on a WR, you're already expecting that player to be ahead of Boykin on the depth chart. So realistically, said WR is basically #2 or #3 at worst on the WR depth chart. In an offense like this, that runs the ball so effectively AND uses the TE as much as we do, a #2 or #3 WR is probably just never going to have monsterous production in my eyes.

I think you need additional talent at the position, but that's mostly because Brown isn't your chain moving, big body receiver, and Snead is pretty much just an average WR that's a great blocker. Behind that, your depth is obviously pretty non-existent, with guys like Roberts, Moore, etc.

So while I think we should and will address the WR position relatively early in the draft, I think automatically downgrading a guy like Boykin after a rookie season like that is doing us a disservice when it comes to talent development. I'd like to see us using a day 2 pick on a WR (and probably taking a developmental one later on), with the idea of that guy competing with Boykin, and allowing those players to improve through competition.

If he doesn't develop, so be it. But its pretty hard to evaluate that after a single season.

You have to give young players a chance to develop and they only get that really in live game action. I agree that Boykin should take a step if he will this year. I kinda give him a pass this year but he has to show improvement next year or my doubts will become firmer. I can’t help but see him and think Tandon Doss, whether fair or not. He’s kinda like that to me because he was a preseason stud who didn’t put it together in the regular season.

I'd honestly be surprised if the FA WR addition is anything more than a cheap flyer on a lower tier FA or a guy that gets cut (a la Seth Roberts last year). I don't see a big monetary investment, and I don't really think we should unless someone like AJ Green just doesn't have the market expected. You have Hollywood at hopefully 100%. Snead is a solid WR3/4 option. Boykin is an unknown, but I still have hopes for him. We could be a lot better, but also a lot worse. Save that money for a bigger need (...front 7...) and draft one in a super deep WR draft class. I just don't see us throwing around big $ of a bunch of underwhelming options.

I was against Dez a couple of years back, but now that he'd like to play here, I'd much rather do that on a cheap 1 year deal than spend big on a Robby Anderson type.

Same regarding Dez but maybe the time away has helped him. It’s interesting that he’s willing to play here now that we have Jackson and Jackson proved himself to an extent. Guess he didn’t want to play with Flacco or under the old offense. I think that’s the type of WR we’ll target though—one of those veteran WR

 

[purplepittabread88]

Hey

 

[JoeyFlex5]

If Robby Anderson is going for 12m per, thats value and I’d gladly take him for 2-3 so he can have the added perk of hitting the market one more time before he gets old. He’s a fit here, we as fans are putting too much emphasis on getting the opposite of Hollywood for diversity’s sake, forgetting that we have the big wing span targets in spades at TE.

I love what the speed of Hollywood has done for this offense, and I believe you need even more. Do what the chiefs are doing, speed kills, and in this offense more than any other, Hollywood and Robby Anderson on the boundaries will leave dbs with dooky stains when you have a qb who can extend like Lamar.