Davesta
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I
move up a bit to secure Tevin Jenkins and get a Jayson Oweh or Zaven Collins with the 31st would be nice
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Signings, Cuts, Trades
- Thread starter RavensMania
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move up a bit to secure Tevin Jenkins and get a Jayson Oweh or Zaven Collins with the 31st would be nice
rmcjacket23
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1. I agree... sounds like something that would come from Ravens camp to justify lack of trade assets in the deal.
2. Widely known Ravens weren't going to pay him LT to play RT. They paid Stanley first, he's the better player at that position, and that's that. Can't pay a franchise QB and two Tackles a combined like $80M in this league, even with a potentially rising salary cap.
Edgar
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Im with you on Teven and Zaven.
rmcjacket23
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I'll say this... while I don't think any draft trade chart is the "gospel" in league circles, I could pick fights with any of them...
Like if I look at the OTC chart, while they clearly value mid-round picks higher than say the JJ value chart, they also seemingly value everything across the board higher, at the expense of first rounders.
For example... if you look at OTC, if I wanted pick #65, which is top of the third round, the trade chart says all I would have to give up to get it is roughly 4 7th round picks. Do you think any team in the league would accept 4 7th round picks for a 3rd rounder, straight up? I don't.
And that's not a pick swap either. That's not a third for a third + 4 7th rounders. That's just 4 7th round picks for a top-end 3rd rounder. I don't think there's a single team in the league that does that deal. 7th round picks, across the board, are almost entirely throwaways. They're no more or less likely to "hit" than an UDFA is. The Ravens basically don't have a 7th round pick worth a shit in franchise history, which spans 25 years.
I understand how some sites may value 1st rounders more and devalue mid-rounders, but the reality is that, when I look at OTC's chart, for example, I think they've gone too far the other spectrum. They put way too much value in 6th and 7th rounders, and probably not enough up front.
So if I'm valuing this trade... I got one site telling me they got a mid-first rounder, and other sites telling me they got mid-second rounder. I would personally just agree to split the difference, meaning they got a late first round grade. Basically the 3 and the 4 they got are offset by the 2nd they lost. I think that's a reasonable assessment.
Which puts us about where a lot of us were expecting all year. Not going to get a top 20 pick straight up for him, happy to get a first rounder at all.
rmcjacket23
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I've heard on the radio and read at least three ex-NFL execs say that Zaven Collins will be one of the "highest risers" in this class, meaning he's going to go much earlier than most people expect. All of them said top 25 for sure, at least one suggested he could go as high as #11 to NYG.
rmcjacket23
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Again, my stance has been the same. The Ravens need to add two tackles this offseason. One as a starter, one as competition for depth.
And its unlikely both come from the draft. If they draft a Tackle in the first round, sure, he'll likely start. If its in the 4th, he's probably competing with Phillips as the Swing.
Villaneuva brings experience and versatility. But there's no chance on Earth the Ravens let 7-8 picks or whatever they have go this weekend and don't come away with at least somebody who can compete at Tackle. It really doesn't matter what veteran options are out there.
Plus, I have no doubt whatever we do with Villaneuva, it'll be a short term deal with no guarantees beyond year 1 most likely. He's a short term fix, not a long term one. The best chance to get the next Wagner or Brown is in the draft. And I would be shocked if there isn't an attempt to do that next weekend, likely before the end of Friday.
We talk about smoke screens from Eric all the time. A lot of the time, he tells you exactly what he's going to do. What's the priority been from the FO in the offseason? Oline. I seriously doubt adding Zeitler and losing Brown means "we're good". Oline typically isn't an emphasis if your objective is only to upgrade one spot.
yeah it's not a particularly useful video - mostly he's open after the ball's been thrown somewhere else (partly why he's open) or he's the clear-out route and is getting open later in the down...
i watched every one of those clips hoping to find some hope in there and found none lol - he was mostly getting open on deep clear out routes
i imagine the ravens analytics department have their own calculations too
my guess is when the chiefs decided not to do 31 straight up, that they worked out a way to fleece them on their metrics while not going over board on the old charts
losing the 2nd isnt ideal but getting the 1,3 and 4 is a great way to make up for losing the 2 (and the 2022 pick swap too)
BoredMarine13
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Hahaha nice
This trade feels like a big loss giving up a solid player for the last pick in the first round. I was hoping we could have Orlando grow up and play out the season at right tackle.
Now we have a huge hole to fill , fingers crossed Villanueva signs with us after the draft.
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probably worth pointing out that the new CBA made the 5th year option much more expensive (for non-low value positions)
I seen a few where he was open but pocket collapse.. i also seen atleast 3 in real time during game though.. i dnt think he is any good right now tbh .... however, i think lamar doesnt really pay attention to thr cvg presnap
and worth pointing out then that that's exactly where PFF had the value of this trade - equivalent to the 27th/28th pick in value terms - the 3rd and 4th and the 6th-5th pick swap were valuable enough in totality to add on to the 31st pick and move the total trade value up to the 27th-ish pick
i agree with you the OTC total value feels wrong
i never look nor looked at any charts but soon as i saw trade it seemed like we simply got a late first for brown.. now did we win trade? I simply dnt know. I say at worst regardless of who we pick, or how the players turn out, both teams won..
idk about that - we saw in 2019 out of empty lamar picking teams apart with pre-snap and post-snap reads
it's true he didnt throw with as much anticipation in 2020 i dont think - but he also made some great reads and throws - there were a few throws where you'd have liked to see him get the ball out but i just dont think he ever felt comfortable behind that OL in pass pro last year - you saw it at the beginning of the season even against the browns in week 1 when he put up that great performance, it still felt like he was running for his life
but with boykin i think the issue is 3 fold:
1) he's running a lot of clear-out routes designed to create space underneath which means that he's low-down in the progressions in a lot of cases - you could argue that lamar could maybe make a pre-snap check or audible to target boykin but a lot of those types of routes take time to develop so they're never going to be super high in the progressions
2) lamar didnt really trust him to run the right route - which means timing routes like backshoulders and fades etc (the types of things where you'd expect boykin to be best) were basically no gos - and you saw at least 2 or 3 times when that play was called, boykin ran the wrong route/mis-read the coverage
3) boykin's struggling to separate with physicality and doesn't play with physicality at the catch-point either despite his frame - when he's getting open he's winning with speed mostly
BoredMarine13
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I hope we’re just stalling until after the draft to sign him. If not poor Lamar is going to have a rough season, I have little faith in late first rounders to protect him this year.....
Our current starting Oline
Stanley(assuming he is healthy)
Bozeman
Mekari
Zietler
Phillips
Big yikes
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rmcjacket23
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Well obviously there's no way to value a trade until you know what the other team ends up with. Plus, even after that's happened, we're all working under the guise of Brown playing one more year here than being one of the very first guys to sign a gigantic FA contract with another team next offseason, and perhaps, a 3rd round comp pick in 2023 for that.
So you have to balance a) who we obtain with the trade picks, b) what we gave up in terms of future picks for Brown and c) what additional value Brown would have added to the 2021 Ravens, simply by playing RT for us.
If that sounds complicated or impossible, that's largely because it is.
rmcjacket23
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You have little faith in late first rounders being able to protect him? Huh?
Bozeman is a stud, who was a 6th rounder. Zeitler himself is a late first rounder, and the stud we just traded away, Brown, was a third rounder.
Most likely, it looks more like Stanley, Powers, Bozeman, Zeitler, Phillips, meaning the only true "weak spot" I see is at RT. At which, I expect we will add two bodies in the next two weeks.
I don't really understand at all the notion of needing better than late first rounders to play good offensive line in this league. There's literally stud offensive lineman all over the place in this league who weren't even in the ballpark of first round picks. There's a lot of people league-wide who think spending a first round pick on a RT is considered "bad value", because the expectation is anybody good enough to be selected in the first should be on the blindside. I don't agree with it, but that's perception in some cases.
BoredMarine13
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I think Brown is a very good player and will be fine in their offense. I absolutely do not think he should be the highest paid tackle in the league. That’s just crazy. We’ll see how good his agent is. Hopefully he gets a huge contract... less the chiefs can throw at other pieces.
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rmcjacket23
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It's also an exercise for the fanbase to understand that just because A team trades B picks for C player, and fans value D player the same as C player, it doesn't mean team E will get the exact same pick haul as team A. Trades are a two way street. Sometimes trades are about timing and opportunity more than value. If you have a price, and nobody is willing to give you that price, it means you either lower your price or keep the player. And both come with high risks.
So until I hear that there were other NFL teams willing to give up more for Brown, I'm assuming this was the best deal that was offered. Pretty clear from the "rumors" about a Vikings trade and what they were offering almost certainly had to be false, given I'm 100% confident that Eric would have preferred to trade Brown out of conference and for better draft pick compensation. That seems obvious.