Signings, Cuts, Trades

[Rusfan]

This is like the 3rd guy in recent memory who just jerked us around to get a bigger contract elswhere

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

Bobby’s a whole bitch fr

Once a Seabitch, always a Seabitch

 

[JAAM]

That’s similar to the question I have - we always like to spend up to the cap as best we can but right now we’ve just got this space and we’re running out of guys to spend it on

Do we pivot to clowney? Ogunjobi? Does this let us give Calais a 1 yr deal? Gillmore?

Ogunjobi and/or Gillmore would be GREAT

 

[JAAM]

This is like the 3rd guy in recent memory who just jerked us around to get a bigger contract elswhere

Wagner, Z, who was the third?? I know there’s another, I just can’t think of who the bitch is

Edit - Golladay’s bitch ass?

 

[UPennChem]

I'm not confused. I'm saying your historical view of how the franchise looks at ILBs ended several years ago.

What you are suggesting did not exist in the 2021 season for certain. What you are suggesting did not exist in the 2020 season either. The last significant FA signing at the position was Daryl Smith, circa 2014.

I'm actually quite surprised some of you actually still think its a thing. Like are you next going to tell me we value Dline play also?

Corners, Safeties, Pass Rushers. It's really the only thing this defense has been prioritizing for several years now.

Sure, we made a run at Wagner. A lot of teams did. He's a special, generational linebacker. I'd be disappointed if we didn't. There's also been a lot of really good linebackers in FA the last several years, and we've never been in on many of them. There's a reason for that, and having a first rounder who's not making much isn't a very good reason to not be in on them, especially when you're a base 3-4 team that can play two ILBs a lot. Except, like most teams, we're really not, because almost every base defense in the league at this point has 5 or even 6 DBs in it.

Saying Malik Harrison is a significant investment at ILB is like saying Miles Boykin was a significant investment at WR. Literally the same thing...

I understand your opinion and think it has some merit. But you so often just pinpoint certain little things because you want to win an argument or something. Harrison was only mentioned because he was double dipping after the first round selection of PQ.

Yes the last time we added someone was Daryl Smith a whike ago. What was that the case? Because Daryl and CJ held it down for a while.

Once we didn't have them we quickly attempted to replace them with a 1st and 3rd round pick. Once the 3rd round pick didn't work out you try and sign a priority FA.

I just don't see how this is not prioritizing the position. Statistically the Ravens over all their seasons have had MANY MANY more high quality ILB play seasons than not.

You'll just say that's good drafting. I'll agree. But what has happened as a consequence is that our defenseive philosophies have been centered around having an extremely high IQ guy at ILB.

We don't have that right now and we're trying to remedy jt.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I understand your opinion and think it has some merit. But you so often just pinpoint certain little things because you want to win an argument or something. Harrison was only mentioned because he was double dipping after the first round selection of PQ.

Yes the last time we added someone was Daryl Smith a whike ago. What was that the case? Because Daryl and CJ held it down for a while.

Once we didn't have them we quickly attempted to replace them with a 1st and 3rd round pick. Once the 3rd round pick didn't work out you try and sign a priority FA.

I just don't see how this is not prioritizing the position. Statistically the Ravens over all their seasons have had MANY MANY more high quality ILB play seasons than not.

You'll just say that's good drafting. I'll agree. But what has happened as a consequence is that our defenseive philosophies have been centered around having an extremely high IQ guy at ILB.

We don't have that right now and we're trying to remedy jt.

Its not prioritizing the position because a) I don't see any other ILBs we've been linked to or would be interested in, despite there being a couple good one's that were at least, at some point, available, and b) we had no idea Wagner was ever even going to be available, considering he wasn't scheduled to be a FA.

Its not like the Ravens went into the offseason with a plan to get Wagner. He was one of the typical guys we sign... aging veteran, past his prime, at lower market value than usual, and a cut player who doesn't count against comp picks (won't matter this year anyway, but still).

I don't think we're trying to remedy it really at all. I fully expect any ILBs we draft this year won't be until at least the third round or later, and I fully expect whoever we sign in FA to play next to Queen will be of the "very cheap" variety.

The idea of drafting Queen and Harrison in one draft is mostly just a product of literally having zero linebackers on the roster when we did it. All we had was LJ Fort types, which is basically all we have now also.

If the Ravens were serious about upgrading ILB or that concerned with it, Bobby Wagner wouldn't be the only guy we're after.... nearly 3 weeks after FA opens. Yet I don't see us signing anybody of note at that position, and I certainly don't see us using an early draft pick on one.

Our defensive philosophies today, especially with a new DC, are not what they were last year, five years ago, or even ten years ago.

 

[Simba]

Personally I'm not overly concerned with ILB because it's a pretty damn deep draft there up through the early portions of day 3. Sure, Wagner is probably better than all of those options at this moment, but it's not like missing out on him means we can't still fill the hole.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Personally I'm not overly concerned with ILB because it's a pretty damn deep draft there up through the early portions of day 3. Sure, Wagner is probably better than all of those options at this moment, but it's not like missing out on him means we can't still fill the hole.

Neither am I. Again, in my world, I'd rather see more 6 DB looks, especially with a lot of Williams/Stephens/Clark on the field at the same time. I'd rather see us add help on the Dline and add a Center (which I know we're not at this point) or pass rushers.

I'm pretty much all-in on getting a high end edge rusher or one of the top Corners in the first round.

 

[airconteka]

Glad the Wagner saga is over, I was ambivalent about the whole thing but it dragged on way too long.

 

[UPennChem]

Its not prioritizing the position because a) I don't see any other ILBs we've been linked to or would be interested in, despite there being a couple good one's that were at least, at some point, available, and b) we had no idea Wagner was ever even going to be available, considering he wasn't scheduled to be a FA.

Its not like the Ravens went into the offseason with a plan to get Wagner. He was one of the typical guys we sign... aging veteran, past his prime, at lower market value than usual, and a cut player who doesn't count against comp picks (won't matter this year anyway, but still).

I don't think we're trying to remedy it really at all. I fully expect any ILBs we draft this year won't be until at least the third round or later, and I fully expect whoever we sign in FA to play next to Queen will be of the "very cheap" variety.

The idea of drafting Queen and Harrison in one draft is mostly just a product of literally having zero linebackers on the roster when we did it. All we had was LJ Fort types, which is basically all we have now also.

If the Ravens were serious about upgrading ILB or that concerned with it, Bobby Wagner wouldn't be the only guy we're after.... nearly 3 weeks after FA opens. Yet I don't see us signing anybody of note at that position, and I certainly don't see us using an early draft pick on one.

Our defensive philosophies today, especially with a new DC, are not what they were last year, five years ago, or even ten years ago.

I get what you're saying and maybe my word choice wasn't great. But you're funny my man. Your whole world view is just so simple and rigid. Like everything is not so cut and dry. We have the same HC and FO for the most part across the 3 main ILBs Lewis to Mosley to Queen. Sure the DC changes but the styles have been quite similar outside maybe Pees in recent memory.

I'm sure your probably in your early 30s with a normal job but my mind tells me your like in your late 50s and are some sort of engineer lol.

 

[Simba]

Neither am I. Again, in my world, I'd rather see more 6 DB looks, especially with a lot of Williams/Stephens/Clark on the field at the same time. I'd rather see us add help on the Dline and add a Center (which I know we're not at this point) or pass rushers.

I'm pretty much all-in on getting a high end edge rusher or one of the top Corners in the first round.

I don't disagree. Basically, there's an opportunity to add an ILB if you really want to without requiring a significant investment. I don't think they necessarily came into the offseason thinking they needed to add a high quality guy there. It was more that Wagner was a guy available that probably shouldn't have been and they felt it necessary to take a shot at him, which I probably would have done the same if I was in charge. But missing out doesn't mean we need to look for someone of a similar caliber.

 

[Davesta]

Fuck it. It’s time.

View attachment 3415

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm not confused. I'm saying your historical view of how the franchise looks at ILBs ended several years ago.

What you are suggesting did not exist in the 2021 season for certain. What you are suggesting did not exist in the 2020 season either. The last significant FA signing at the position was Daryl Smith, circa 2014.

I'm actually quite surprised some of you actually still think its a thing. Like are you next going to tell me we value Dline play also?

Corners, Safeties, Pass Rushers. It's really the only thing this defense has been prioritizing for several years now.

Sure, we made a run at Wagner. A lot of teams did. He's a special, generational linebacker. I'd be disappointed if we didn't. There's also been a lot of really good linebackers in FA the last several years, and we've never been in on many of them. There's a reason for that, and having a first rounder who's not making much isn't a very good reason to not be in on them, especially when you're a base 3-4 team that can play two ILBs a lot. Except, like most teams, we're really not, because almost every base defense in the league at this point has 5 or even 6 DBs in it.

Saying Malik Harrison is a significant investment at ILB is like saying Miles Boykin was a significant investment at WR. Literally the same thing...

Have you not forgotten that on top of Malik we also drafted queen in 2020 too only a year after losing Mosley and 2 years later we’re going hard after the premier LB available in free agency

That suggests we value the position more than I thought we did 3 years ago after Mosley left...

 

[rmcjacket23]

I get what you're saying and maybe my word choice wasn't great. But you're funny my man. Your whole world view is just so simple and rigid. Like everything is not so cut and dry. We have the same HC and FO for the most part across the 3 main ILBs Lewis to Mosley to Queen. Sure the DC changes but the styles have been quite similar outside maybe Pees in recent memory.

I'm sure your probably in your early 30s with a normal job but my mind tells me your like in your late 50s and are some sort of engineer lol.

I guess my question is why is just listing a couple first round picks over like a 10 year period enough to be a "significant investment"? I mean its not a QB... there's more than one that can play at a time.

Where are all of the even mid tier or high-end ILB signings as FAs? We've done it at Corner. We've done it at Safety. We've done it at pass rusher (though not as recent). We've even done it on the DLine. Where has it happened at ILB?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

If I ever see Bobby Wagner it’s on sight I stg

 

[UPennChem]

Have you not forgotten that on top of Malik we also drafted queen in 2020 too only a year after losing Mosley and 2 years later we’re going hard after the premier LB available in free agency

That suggests we value the position more than I thought we did 3 years ago after Mosley left...

Lol thank you rossi. Happy birthday!

 

[rmcjacket23]

Have you not forgotten that on top of Malik we also drafted queen in 2020 too only a year after losing Mosley and 2 years later we’re going hard after the premier LB available in free agency

That suggests we value the position more than I thought we did 3 years ago after Mosley left...

So is Wagner literally the only LB in FA that's good and available?
Why is he literally the only guy we're targeting?
Doesn't sound like a positional target to me. Sounds like a "great player is available and we want him" target to me. I think if Bobby Wagner were a TE we'd be in his market too...

 

[UPennChem]

I guess my question is why is just listing a couple first round picks over like a 10 year period enough to be a "significant investment"? I mean its not a QB... there's more than one that can play at a time.

Where are all of the even mid tier or high-end ILB signings as FAs? We've done it at Corner. We've done it at Safety. We've done it at pass rusher (though not as recent). We've even done it on the DLine. Where has it happened at ILB?

That period of time doesn't help your argument. We've had ILBs that have spent long long stretches of time on the team because they were very good. Also, you really don't have any more than 4 at that position so you're going to statistically add less. But even still look at LJ Fort, Bynes etc for even just in the last couple years.

 

[rmcjacket23]

That period of time doesn't help your argument. We've had ILBs that have spent long long stretches of time on the team because they were very good. Also, you really don't have any more than 4 at that position so you're going to statistically add less. But even still look at LJ Fort, Bynes etc for even just in the last couple years.

So... our investments have been first round picks every few years and cheap veterans?

 

[UPennChem]

So... our investments have been first round picks every few years and cheap veterans?

It's amazing to me that you don't see that you're just using a slightly different definition of the word value. 100% of all communication problems come from someone misinterpreting an implicit assumption.

I have multiple times acknowledged that I understand what you're saying and it's not wrong. I've tried to convey that you're not talking about the same thing as me and that's why we're not agreeing.

I'll chalk this up to my ineffective communication.