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Signings, Cuts, Trades

Sami84 said:
then why did we sign brockers? What purpose did it serve? Why didn't we upgrade elsewhere? we could just continue with what we had last year no?
We didn't upgrade our pass rush that much. We made it slightly better but not the point where it changed from a weakness to a strength
I undersrand campbell. Brockers? not so much
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We signed brockers because pierce is leaving, our run defense was a problem just as much as our pass rush, and brockers is more valuable to this defense which already has a pure NT than pierce and will likely come at a better price. We wanted to move on from pierce, we did that, and you hate Chris wormley so bad why aren’t you ok with upgrading over him as well? Brockers to me looks like a guy who’s gonna replace pierce and upgrade wormley simultaneously and at a cheaper price
 
Simba said:
I have a hard time believing that EDC is going to bypass a player that can help in favor of a late rounder at this point. Just doesn't make much sense, especially with a seemingly depleted market for our guys.

Yeah we would have to pick it up today, but it's being declined.
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I agree... it won't come for a 5th or 6th round comp pick. Gonna need to be for higher than that, and I don't think any of our players are going to qualify for anything higher than a 4th at this point, and that's probably stretching it.
 
Simba said:
I think the big thing at this point... who's trading away a premium pick and a contract for Judon when you can just sign one of the other 2 and keep the pick? They all have their flaws, but I have a hard time believing there's a team out there that loves Judon enough to trade for him while 2 guys are sitting out there still. I would imagine trade talks would heat up after those 2 sign, and what good does that do us at that point?
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Think it ultimately comes down to how much you like the player and how they fit with your team. I think a lot of teams would rate Judon quite a bit higher as a player than Fowler, which is why I think Fowler would be substantially cheaper on the open market also.

Plus, I don't think a first round pick is in play in a trade like this. Likely be a day two pick. If you're a contender, like Seattle, do you value a late 2nd or 3rd rounder that highly? If Judon is $3-4M a year cheaper than Clowney, which he very well may be, that may be worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick to Seattle. We pretty much know already that Seattle doesn't value draft picks that highly.
 
gtalk12 said:
Apparently the Seahawks are in play to make a trade for Judon


I would love to see Clowney here man
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I just don't see it. I don't see the Ravens coming close to meeting his asking price.

Plus, I look at it this way...

If Seattle is aware that they're not retaining Clowney, it likely means Clowney has already decided where he's heading, and there's pretty much no chance I see him deciding to land in Baltimore until the Ravens are 1000% sure they've traded Judon.

So it means Clowney likely signs elsewhere, then Seattle gets serious about Judon. It would mean the Ravens miss out on both, leaving us heading for the next group of players, like a Dante Fowler.
 
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rmcjacket23 said:
I'm all for bringing Jimmy back. My problem is this...

What does a "not big market" look like? I think a lot of people thought Jimmy could get a deal pretty similar to the one he was recently playing under (maybe a bit shorter)... probably around $10M a year on a 2-3 year deal. Obviously the Ravens aren't in that market, but just because he didn't sign in the first day or two doesn't mean that's not where his market is.

That being said... can the Ravens even afford to pay $6-7M a year? In my eyes... probably not. Maybe on a 3 year deal with a really low first year cap hit, but Jimmy's not the kind of player I want to commit to for more than a year or two, nor is it somebody I'd want to be pushing significant salary cap into the future on.

Like a "non-market" for a player like Jimmy, in my eyes, is still at least $6-7M a year. And the Ravens really can't afford just a one year, "prove it deal", because that'll be straight salary cap.

Like most, I'm of the mindset that the longer they're on the market, the lower the price goes. But I think if Ravens fans are thinking a hometown discount is like a $3-4M a year payday, I think they're sorely mistaken. I'm still expecting him to sign a 2-3 year deal in the $8-10M per year range. Still a lot of teams with a lot of cap to spend, and a lot of those teams need Corner help. Especially true of the teams that missed out on the Jones/Bradberry sweepstakes.
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I’m not expecting anything less than 8-10m per year, and I’m perfectly fine with it
 
Simba said:
I think the big thing at this point... who's trading away a premium pick and a contract for Judon when you can just sign one of the other 2 and keep the pick? They all have their flaws, but I have a hard time believing there's a team out there that loves Judon enough to trade for him while 2 guys are sitting out there still. I would imagine trade talks would heat up after those 2 sign, and what good does that do us at that point?
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Sounds like the one team that's interested so far is the Seahawks and I can imagine Clowney is priced out of Seattle. Do they have interest in Fowler? I have no idea. But if those two do sign, I'm on board with keeping Judon.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I just don't see it. I don't see the Ravens coming close to meeting his asking price.

Plus, I look at it this way...

If Seattle is aware that they're not retaining Clowney, it likely means Clowney has already decided where he's heading, and there's pretty much no chance I see him deciding to land in Baltimore until the Ravens are 1000% sure they've traded Judon.

So it means Clowney likely signs elsewhere, then Seattle gets serious about Judon. It would mean the Ravens miss out on both, leaving us heading for the next group of players, like a Dante Fowler.
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If we get a 2+ a day 3 pick and then sign Fowler I’d be ducking LIT. That’s ideal scenario
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Think it ultimately comes down to how much you like the player and how they fit with your team. I think a lot of teams would rate Judon quite a bit higher as a player than Fowler, which is why I think Fowler would be substantially cheaper on the open market also.

Plus, I don't think a first round pick is in play in a trade like this. Likely be a day two pick. If you're a contender, like Seattle, do you value a late 2nd or 3rd rounder that highly? If Judon is $3-4M a year cheaper than Clowney, which he very well may be, that may be worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick to Seattle. We pretty much know already that Seattle doesn't value draft picks that highly.
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I think it's kind of a catch 22 in some ways - no one here values Judon enough to keep him at his current rate and/or on extension, but we expect others teams will AND give up a draft pick? We have to remember that Judon holds the power here in a lot of ways. In order to facilitate a trade, he has to sign. I know there are some stupid teams out there, but a lot are not going to give up a premium draft pick without an extension in place. That's a lot of moving parts.
 
Yea I’m surprised Fowler hasn’t been talked about much on here if Judon is traded. I’d take him in a heartbeat. Clowney is obviously the ultimate prize but we’d have to trade Judon ASAP to make it happen. Seattle already knows Clowney isn’t coming back so hopefully a trade comes soon so we can start talking to Clowney if we’re interested. He’d be insane with 1,000 pounds in front of him. But I digress. Fowler would be a great signing as well
 
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Sami84 said:
true but why did we sign brockers when we could have got some really good players in position of need like BJ Finney or Corey littleton?
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We gave up 4.4 yards per carry last season, the worst in franchise history. In our 3 losses, we gave up 140 yards, 193 yards, and 217 yards rushing. Brockers and Calais Campbell are two of the best run defenders in the entire NFL. We still need pass rush juice, but we are a better team with draft picks to come.
 
Not a fan of fowler. He was alright last year but is it really worth getting rid of judon? Hardly worth it unless he comes dirt cheap
 
Simba said:
I think it's kind of a catch 22 in some ways - no one here values Judon enough to keep him at his current rate and/or on extension, but we expect others teams will AND give up a draft pick? We have to remember that Judon holds the power here in a lot of ways. In order to facilitate a trade, he has to sign. I know there are some stupid teams out there, but a lot are not going to give up a premium draft pick without an extension in place. That's a lot of moving parts.
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And I think this is where we differ. I think the Ravens have zero reservations about keeping Judon on a one year, $16M contract. I don't think its possible for a team to franchise tag a player unless they're comfortable with the price of the tag for that player, because there's no guarantees they'll get any trade partners, and there's no guarantee you'll get a long term extension.

Their ideal desire may be to trade him, but they're not going to franchise tag him and then come back in a month and be like "yeah we can't afford to pay his tag". That would be an epic failure on the FO part.

I think Judon playing the 2020 on a one year, almost $16M salary is far and away the likeliest outcome of this whole process, and I think the second likeliest outcome is a long term extension prior to the tag deadline. I view a trade as possible but certainly not the likeliest of scenarios.

I think the Ravens know there are many teams in the league that would have zero reservations about paying Judon $16M on a one year, or even on a long term deal, especially given the price tags of some of the players we've seen signed so far. What they don't know is whether a team is willing to give up a decent draft pick for the opportunity to pay that price.

They're likely seeing the same things everybody else saw... somebody was willing to do it for Dee Ford, who in my eyes isn't nearly as good of a player. Maybe they'll be able to get something similar. If not, I think they're fine keeping him as is.
 
Okay, are we really still on the fence about Brockers lol? We have three immovable objects on the line now and two who can generate pressure. Pierce was good for one thing and couldn’t even do that very well. That’s why his market is slow. Brockers has incredible length and uses it at the point of attack. His versatility to move anywhere on the line is exactly what we needed. Wink is going to have fun with his lengthy and heavy new linemen who can actually move around. Williams and Pierce are essentially the same players. This was a huge upgrade over Pierce.
 
Sami84 said:
Not a fan of fowler. He was alright last year but is it really worth getting rid of judon? Hardly worth it unless he comes dirt cheap
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Are you a fan of Clowney if we could get him?
 
JAAM said:
Okay, are we really still on the fence about Brockers lol? We have three immovable objects on the line now and two who can generate pressure. Pierce was good for one thing and couldn’t even do that very well. That’s why his market is slow. Brockers has incredible length and uses it at the point of attack. His versatility to move anywhere on the line is exactly what we needed. Wink is going to have fun with his lengthy and heavy new linemen who can actually move around. Williams and Pierce are essentially the same players. This was a huge upgrade over Pierce.
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basically we replaced pierce with chris canty 2.0
 
rmcjacket23 said:
And I think this is where we differ. I think the Ravens have zero reservations about keeping Judon on a one year, $16M contract. I don't think its possible for a team to franchise tag a player unless they're comfortable with the price of the tag for that player, because there's no guarantees they'll get any trade partners, and there's no guarantee you'll get a long term extension.

Their ideal desire may be to trade him, but they're not going to franchise tag him and then come back in a month and be like "yeah we can't afford to pay his tag". That would be an epic failure on the FO part.

I think Judon playing the 2020 on a one year, almost $16M salary is far and away the likeliest outcome of this whole process, and I think the second likeliest outcome is a long term extension prior to the tag deadline. I view a trade as possible but certainly not the likeliest of scenarios.

I think the Ravens know there are many teams in the league that would have zero reservations about paying Judon $16M on a one year, or even on a long term deal, especially given the price tags of some of the players we've seen signed so far. What they don't know is whether a team is willing to give up a decent draft pick for the opportunity to pay that price.

They're likely seeing the same things everybody else saw... somebody was willing to do it for Dee Ford, who in my eyes isn't nearly as good of a player. Maybe they'll be able to get something similar. If not, I think they're fine keeping him as is.
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100%. Again, Clowney is the dream, but keeping Judon on the tag this year is extremely likely.
 
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