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Signings, Cuts, Trades

BoredMarine13 said:
They are TEs and one is out for an extended period . I hope you stub your toe tonight
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Why does it matter if they're TEs? How many snaps is Andrews being asked to block? Very few. Pretty sure there were several games where the answer was literally zero.

Andrews is a receiver. If Andrews were a FA and getting franchised tagged, the very first thing his agent would do is file a grievance with the NFL to be tagged as a receiver, based on number of routes run, where he lines up, and his overall role.

People arguing about TE vs WR are doing so from a point of pure semantics, and they're losing badly in that argument.

It can be both. Even with Andrews, our pass catching group ain't great. It's not terrible, and I've listed about a dozen teams in the league that I wouldn't trade their group for ours (including the Chiefs, by the way), but its not great either.

People that think its great don't know what they're talking about, and people that think it sucks don't know what they're talking about either. Both are true.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Why does it matter if they're TEs? How many snaps is Andrews being asked to block? Very few. Pretty sure there were several games where the answer was literally zero.

Andrews is a receiver.
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Weird, he is listed as a TE. A great TE at that , but that doesn't compensate for our terrible WR group. The more people convince themselves this somehow balances a bad situation the more you end up with WR corps made up names like Batmen, Proche, Wallace, Robinson.

Would love to see your data showing several games where Mark was never asked to block. I imagine its inline with the data you presented Monday saying there is no way Roquan comes to the Ravens.
rmcjacket23 said:
People that think its great don't know what they're talking about, and people that think it sucks don't know what they're talking about either. Both are true.
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It happened in 2019/2020and it will happen again this year in the playoffs. In the biggest moments the WR corps will let us down, regardless of how well Mark and Lamar play.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Weird, he is listed as a TE. A great TE at that , but that doesn't compensate for our terrible WR group. The more people convince themselves this somehow balances a bad situation the more you end up with WR corps made up names like Batmen, Proche, Wallace, Robinson.

Would love to see your data showing several games where Mark was never asked to block. I imagine its inline with the data you presented Monday saying there is no way Roquan comes to the Ravens.

It happened in 2019/2020and it will happen again this year in the playoffs. In the biggest moments the WR corps will let us down, regardless of how well Mark and Lamar play.
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I mean... it seems to compensated for the Chiefs not having a good WR group. I don't see too many people complaining about the receivers on the Chiefs, which isn't a strong group by any metric or film. Why is that? Is it because their TE is the #1 target in the offense and he's exceptionally good at what he does? Weird how that works.
If its as simple as "he's a TE and people will just take him away from us", then the league seems to be doing a very, very, very bad job of it. Both with the Ravens and the Chiefs.

The original tweet I found here, which was supposed by data from Andrew Cooper, who works for Fantasy Alarm:

It's actually in the context of pass blocking, so basically, on passing plays, he's running routes, not blocking.

If the WRs let us down, so be it. If I'm only bringing in a WR for the sake of "not letting us down" in the playoffs, then you're agreeing with me that we shouldn't bring a receiver in to begin with, because the player you want now doesn't exist.

How about players just simply play better? Why are people so terrified of this concept?

End of day, just as a reminder... its still just one football. Not two. Not three. Everybody doesn't get infinite targets, everybody doesn't get equal shares. I don't see anybody out there I want getting the ball more than Andrews or Bateman. That includes OBJ, who isn't even healthy. And everybody that's out there is just a JAG at this point. They're not difference makers. They're not guys you lean on in the playoffs.

You want those guys? You draft them.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I mean... it seems to compensated for the Chiefs not having a good WR group. I don't see too many people complaining about the receivers on the Chiefs, which isn't a strong group by any metric or film. Why is that? Is it because their TE is the #1 target in the offense and he's exceptionally good at what he does? Weird how that works.
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The chiefs were linked to Cooks and Claypool, now listed as one of the top suitors for Odell...... maybe that's a sign they aren't happy with their output and know heavy reliance on TE with a weak WR corps wont get the job done.
rmcjacket23 said:
The original tweet I found here, which was supposed by data from Andrew Cooper, who works for Fantasy Alarm:

It's actually in the context of pass blocking, so basically, on passing plays, he's running routes, not blocking.
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Shocking they want him running routes and focused on catching the ball during pass plays. He also plays the traditional TE role when called upon , which includes blocking on running downs, which he does quite often.
rmcjacket23 said:
If the WRs let us down, so be it. If I'm only bringing in a WR for the sake of "not letting us down" in the playoffs, then you're agreeing with me that we shouldn't bring a receiver in to begin with, because the player you want now doesn't exist.
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I don't agree, I wanted to bring in Claypool... the guy you said wasn't going to get traded. I only wanted cooks if the Texans ate his salary. Both guys are instant upgrades vs our current. I have no desire to bring in Odell with his injuries.
rmcjacket23 said:
How about players just simply play better? Why are people so terrified of this concept?
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That would require Proche and Wallace to be more talented. They are fringe NFL guys and wont be in the league much longer when their original contract expires.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Why does it matter if they're TEs? How many snaps is Andrews being asked to block? Very few. Pretty sure there were several games where the answer was literally zero.

Andrews is a receiver.
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I think it matters because of the positions they line up. In the regular season, they don't need to be star WRs but they need multiple players who can line up outside.

In the early part of last season, in passing situations, we saw that even Sammy Watkins lined up opposite Hollywood forced opponents to defend the whole width of the field and opened up a lot of space for Andrews, scrambles and for Lamar to move around until someone opened up.

They'll struggle to do that this season. Duvernay and Proche aren't really outside receivers (though Duv can do it), Bateman is injury prone and Robinson is limited. If Bateman and Duvernay are both healthy it could work, but is there any depth?

Will Robinson scare defences out of single coverage in the playoffs? Could Likely do it? Maybe, but I'd be happier with one more acceptable perimeter WR.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
The chiefs were linked to Cooks and Claypool, now listed as one of the top suitors for Odell...... maybe that's a sign they aren't happy with their output and know heavy reliance on TE with a weak WR corps wont get the job done.

Shocking they want him running routes and focused on catching the ball during pass plays. He also plays the traditional TE role when called upon , which includes blocking on running downs, which he does quite often.

I don't agree, I wanted to bring in Claypool... the guy you said wasn't going to get traded. I only wanted cooks if the Texans ate his salary. Both guys are instant upgrades vs our current. I have no desire to bring in Odell with his injuries.

That would require Proche and Wallace to be more talented. They are fringe NFL guys and wont be in the league much longer when their original contract expires.
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1. OK, but like the Ravens, did they not know that the entire offseason when they formulated their roster? Didn't hear anything linking them to either of those players from reputable sources once they traded for Toney.
2. Sure, he does. You know who also blocks during running downs? Bateman. And Duvernay. And any other receiver lined up out there.
So basically, Andrews is running routes on passing downs and blocking on running downs. Weird, I wonder if there's another position group that does the same thing, like, say, wide receivers?
Many TEs actually block on passing downs. It's called extra protection. It's what Boyle and others did for years. It's what Andrews isn't doing this year.
Hence, the semantical argument of "he's not a WR", yet he's doing literally everything WRs do and nothing they don't do.
3. Cool. And why would the Steelers trade a WR to a division rival? Are you under the impression that happens all the time?
I never said Claypool wouldn't get traded. In fact I said the offseason was the perfect time for it. I said he wouldn't get traded to the Ravens, because, well, duh.
4. I honestly don't care about Proche and Wallace. On a healthy roster, they're not getting targeted anyway, because, well, one football, and this is a run-heavy offense.
There's four guys on the roster I'd expect to get more targets than them, and on a good day, we're throwing the ball 30 times. That even ignores passes to RBs, which we don't do enough of.

People only care about Proche and Wallace because Bateman and Andrews are injured. And yes, to nobodies surprise, we don't have depth at WR. Very few teams do.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
I think it matters because of the positions they line up. In the regular season, they don't need to be star WRs but they need multiple players who can line up outside.

In the early part of last season, in passing situations, we saw that even Sammy Watkins lined up opposite Hollywood forced opponents to defend the whole width of the field and opened up a lot of space for Andrews, scrambles and for Lamar to move around until someone opened up.

They'll struggle to do that this season. Duvernay and Proche aren't really outside receivers (though Duv can do it), Bateman is injury prone and Robinson is limited. If Bateman and Duvernay are both healthy it could work, but is there any depth?

Will Robinson scare defences out of single coverage in the playoffs? Could Likely do it? Maybe, but I'd be happier with one more acceptable perimeter WR.
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No, there isn't any depth. We've known this. We passed on depth in exchange for depth on the Oline, depth on the Dline, tremendous depth at Safety, depth at RB, etc. Depth everywhere isn't happening in one offseason.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
1. OK, but like the Ravens, did they not know that the entire offseason when they formulated their roster?
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They signed Smith Schuster and Valdes-Scantling, two good WRs that haven't played to the level they hoped. Seems pretty obvious they invested in the position coming into the season, hasn't worked as well as they thought, and re invested at the trade deadline because they know you cant rely on a TE. The Ravens did not. Why does it hurt you so bad to admit when your wrong?

rmcjacket23 said:
3. Cool. And why would the Steelers trade a WR to a division rival? Are you under the impression that happens all the time?
I never said Claypool wouldn't get traded. In fact I said the offseason was the perfect time for it. I said he wouldn't get traded to the Ravens, because, well, duh.
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Did I say that happens all the time ? In the thread I actually said just the opposite, specifically because they were division rivals it was unlikely to happen, but possible. Feel free to carry on though. Are you saying it cant happen because they are the Steelers and we are the Ravens? That seems pretty stupid and I think both GMs are more mature than that.
rmcjacket23 said:
4. I honestly don't care about Proche and Wallace. On a healthy roster, they're not getting targeted anyway, because, well, one football, and this is a run-heavy offense. People only care about Proche and Wallace because Bateman and Andrews are injured. And yes, to nobodies surprise, we don't have depth at WR. Very few teams do.
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You should revisit the preseason threads. Quite few people care and were rightly concerned about proche and wallace before the season started. But don't let that ruin your narrative/rant
 
rmcjacket23 said:
1. OK, but like the Ravens, did they not know that the entire offseason when they formulated their roster? Didn't hear anything linking them to either of those players from reputable sources once they traded for Toney.
2. Sure, he does. You know who also blocks during running downs? Bateman. And Duvernay. And any other receiver lined up out there.
So basically, Andrews is running routes on passing downs and blocking on running downs. Weird, I wonder if there's another position group that does the same thing, like, say, wide receivers?
Many TEs actually block on passing downs. It's called extra protection. It's what Boyle and others did for years. It's what Andrews isn't doing this year.
Hence, the semantical argument of "he's not a WR", yet he's doing literally everything WRs do and nothing they don't do.
3. Cool. And why would the Steelers trade a WR to a division rival? Are you under the impression that happens all the time?
I never said Claypool wouldn't get traded. In fact I said the offseason was the perfect time for it. I said he wouldn't get traded to the Ravens, because, well, duh.
4. I honestly don't care about Proche and Wallace. On a healthy roster, they're not getting targeted anyway, because, well, one football, and this is a run-heavy offense.
There's four guys on the roster I'd expect to get more targets than them, and on a good day, we're throwing the ball 30 times. That even ignores passes to RBs, which we don't do enough of.

People only care about Proche and Wallace because Bateman and Andrews are injured. And yes, to nobodies surprise, we don't have depth at WR. Very few teams do.
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Um no, many of us even with Andrews and Bateman healthy new that we should of picked up another WR. What did Proche and Duvernay show last year to make us feel confident with the wr group? Nothing.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
They signed Smith Schuster and Valdes-Scantling, two good WRs that haven't played to the level they hoped. Seems pretty obvious they invested in the position coming into the season, hasn't worked as well as they thought, and re invested at the trade deadline because they know you cant rely on a TE. The Ravens did not. Why does it hurt you so bad to admit when your wrong?


Did I say that happens all the time ? In the thread I actually said just the opposite, specifically because they were division rivals it was unlikely to happen, but possible. Feel free to carry on though. Are you saying it cant happen because they are the Steelers and we are the Ravens? That seems pretty stupid and I think both GMs are more mature than that.

You should revisit the preseason threads. Quite few people care and were rightly concerned about proche and wallace before the season started. But don't let that ruin your narrative/rant
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1. JSS and MVS aren't good WRs. They were below average WRs in high volume offenses with two pretty good QBs, and still couldn't perform well. I'm still kind of chuckling at "MVS is a good WR"... since when?
There's a reason why JSS contract is ridiculously small and ridiculously incentive-heavy. It's not because he's a good WR...

I also never said the Ravens invested at WR in the offseason. Was pretty clear they didn't. I didn't hear anybody saying they should until the moment they traded Hollywood away either, nor did I hear anybody saying to sign basically anybody in FA, because, duh, they all suck.
All I heard from May-forward was a bunch of people saying they need to trade a bunch of picks and a bunch of money for Metcalf and McLaurin and literally anybody they could imagine, despite pretty much none of them being available.

Hard to say the general public got that "right" at all.

2. Yes, I'm pretty much saying it can't happen because they're division rivals. It can happen if the Ravens are willing to pay materially more than everybody else, because that's what division trades usually entail. I'm saying maturity would actually be to NOT do it. That would be maturity.
It's not a coincidence that pretty much everybody is eviscerating the Lions for trading Hockensen to a divisional rival.
Why people would think that's even an option, or why his name is even being brought up by Ravens fans, is beyond me. Why not just ask for Jamarr Chase, Tee Higgins, or Amari Cooper while we're at it? I mean nothing is "impossible" right?

3. Of course they're concerned about Proche and Wallace... they haven't done anything. Why does that matter? Why did fans think they were going to be a large part of the offense to begin with? Revisit the preseason threads (which, of course, is a laughably bad barometer of anything) and tell me how the people thinking that Proche or Wallace were going to be big players on the offense are justified in that thought process in any way.

People should have been concerned about depth. That was universally shared. And its universally seen now. It's always been a depth issue.
 
Florida Raven Fan said:
Um no, many of us even with Andrews and Bateman healthy new that we should of picked up another WR. What did Proche and Duvernay show last year to make us feel confident with the wr group? Nothing.
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Picked up another WR where? FA is a baron wasteland of nothing, and any receiver you add in the draft would fit into the same mold of Proche and Duvernay, aka somebody who has shown nothing in this league?

That's kind of how the draft works people. You're taking players who have shown you nothing in the Pros and hoping they do.

If you guys are banking on FA to add playmakers in your WR core, you guys really need to do a better job of looking at the market and what's happening in the league. You get good WRs by trading significant assets for them, paying large sums of money for them, or drafting them.

There's no Anquan Boldin available for a 6th rounder and $2M anymore. Those days are long, long, long gone.
 
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