Ellicottraven
Ravens Ring of Honor
That would be nasty. Amari and DHop with Chubb would be nasty if Kyle Boller was the QB.I have a bad feeling he’s going to the Browns. Reunite with Watson. DHop, Amari, and Chubb would be nasty
That would be nasty. Amari and DHop with Chubb would be nasty if Kyle Boller was the QB.I have a bad feeling he’s going to the Browns. Reunite with Watson. DHop, Amari, and Chubb would be nasty
That's what I fear will happen. Harbaugh won't give up on special teams without a fight and they'll keep just as many S/T specialists as usual. It might not be QBs that suffer with the new rule, but corners.Extremely late reply:
Harbs: "But, there'always just one more ST ILB that I simply have to have on the 53. Screw them QBs"
That's what I fear will happen. Harbaugh won't give up on special teams without a fight and they'll keep just as many S/T specialists as usual. It might not be QBs that suffer with the new rule, but corners.
How many years in a row will the Ravens have to find CBs on the street before they realize they start every season with too few on the roster?
If Zay is in the slot, where are OBJ or Bateman playing? On an average play, how many WRs are we expecting to have on the field?Lol one I already said Keaton Mitchell takes over for Duv. Flowers plays in the slot. Yes you would sacrifice on other areas of the roster but for the third time, I have neither advocated for it nor have I even predicted it to happen.
So I'll say it real slow for you, they can pretty easily sign Hopkins if they want to and think that's best for the team. End of statement.
(here comes the comment of well a team can do anything they want at any time for any reason blah blah)
Yeah if you actually did like a roster breakdown of how we've put the initial 53 together for like the last 3-4 seasons, you wouldn't be able to create an argument that we've lacked depth at Corner for several years now.That's what I fear will happen. Harbaugh won't give up on special teams without a fight and they'll keep just as many S/T specialists as usual. It might not be QBs that suffer with the new rule, but corners.
How many years in a row will the Ravens have to find CBs on the street before they realize they start every season with too few on the roster?
I mean... who's out here beating down the door for Josh Johnson? Like its a 3rd QB. I don't even really care who it is or whether we keep one or not. If we need one, it means Lamar got hurt, and you can literally just sign anybody off the street. They all suck regardless.Extremely late reply:
Harbs: "But, there'always just one more ST ILB that I simply have to have on the 53. Screw them QBs"
9 a center and lamar. A new version of swinging gate.If Zay is in the slot, where are OBJ or Bateman playing? On an average play, how many WRs are we expecting to have on the field?
I mean it sounds like we're committed to go 5 wide with Andrews. So yeah, there's no RB, and honestly its a pretty simplistic offense to attack. Its called blitzing.9 a center and lamar. A new version of swinging gate.
That’s not fair - one year we literally carried so many worthy CBs that we had to cut guys we liked
We still had a bunch of games that year where we were playing guys off the street - you can never have enough corners… mostly because roster size is too small - not because we’ve got 2 LBs on the team who are only here to play special teams
I'm a bit worried that you two are disagreeing here, because you both usually have a lot more facts at your fingertips than I do, but I'll check to see what's happened.Yeah if you actually did like a roster breakdown of how we've put the initial 53 together for like the last 3-4 seasons, you wouldn't be able to create an argument that we've lacked depth at Corner for several years now.
In actuality, a strong case could be made that we went excessive at Corner for several years, and neglected depth or even starters at other position groups because of it.
It's been a long, long, long, long time since people could complain about lack of Corners. You have to get like at least 3-4 simultaneous injuries in that group for it to be an issue.
Right, but 6 corners is plenty to start the season. What is the 7th or 8th corner going to do until players get injured? They're going to play ST, which is what guys like Welch and Ross do (only better), or they're going to be inactive.I'm a bit worried that you two are disagreeing here, because you both usually have a lot more facts at your fingertips than I do, but I'll check to see what's happened.
In 22 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch and Josh Ross who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
In 21 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 plus a Safety in season.
In 20 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 5 CBs and added 7 DBs in season.
In 19 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
(From 19-21 we had Board as the principal S/T linebacker and he did see a defensive snaps, so the guys named were in addition to him.)
To me, that looks like a consistent pattern of 6 (or even 5) CBs not being quite enough to get through a season and 2 special teams linebackers being at least one too many.
At the 53rd roster spot, no player is a star, but I think it would be better to have a 7th CB of the Ravens choosing on the roster because he's almost certainly going to be starting a game at some point, rather than wasting that space an a S/T body and having to make do with whoever is available at a much more important position.
I take your point, Rossi, that rosters are too small but that's all the more reason not to waste a spot year after year.
Also, for a little more context here:I'm a bit worried that you two are disagreeing here, because you both usually have a lot more facts at your fingertips than I do, but I'll check to see what's happened.
In 22 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch and Josh Ross who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
In 21 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 plus a Safety in season.
In 20 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 5 CBs and added 7 DBs in season.
In 19 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
(From 19-21 we had Board as the principal S/T linebacker and he did see a defensive snaps, so the guys named were in addition to him.)
To me, that looks like a consistent pattern of 6 (or even 5) CBs not being quite enough to get through a season and 2 special teams linebackers being at least one too many.
At the 53rd roster spot, no player is a star, but I think it would be better to have a 7th CB of the Ravens choosing on the roster because he's almost certainly going to be starting a game at some point, rather than wasting that space an a S/T body and having to make do with whoever is available at a much more important position.
I take your point, Rossi, that rosters are too small but that's all the more reason not to waste a spot year after year.
That's been the Ravens thinking too, but I disagree.Right, but 6 corners is plenty to start the season. What is the 7th or 8th corner going to do until players get injured? They're going to play ST, which is what guys like Welch and Ross do (only better), or they're going to be inactive.
So why would I carry more when I can just add somebody during the year? If any of the injuries end up being IR players, you get both guys... you move the injured player to IR, you add a Corner, and you keep the ST player. Which is what we do. Frequently.
The 7th or 8th corner is just going to be "a guy". It's not a Marcus Peters player, or even like a Kyle Fuller player. Those guys make the 53 everytime. It's the Worley types that don't, because they're not as good at ST as a Welch or a Alaka, and they have no path to playing time until injuries occur.
And when they do, we bring them on.
I do. I want a core ST to play for 3 months, and not worry about who I add in December for a few games. Realistically, the "12th" corner that I'm adding is about the same as my first choice to begin with. Hence why we always seem to keep bringing back the same guys ever year, despite them being cut from the initial 53.That's been the Ravens thinking too, but I disagree.
The 7th corner isn't going to play early but he is going to be taking a lot of snaps for one or two games in the season, whereas the second S/T linebacker is never going to play on defense, based on the last few years.
So, you could wait until injuries hit later in the season, but that's when every team starts needing to add CBs - you might end up with the 12th best guy, instead of taking your 1st choice. They might not be Marcus Peters but Otaro Alaka isn't Roquan Smith, we're not talking about stars in either case, but better is better.
With the reduced importance of special teams (and field position itself), I don't think a few degrees better S/T play with no defensive snaps outweighs better CB play plus all the same special teams snaps (at a lower level).
I never talked about a league wide ranking, but about the Ravens keeping their first choice from the pool.Most teams are taking players based on their familiarity with systems, not based on how they arbitrarily "rank" league-wide.
Basically, in these cases, there is no "better". Better is just whoever the team likes and whoever they want to keep.
It only seems like those games don't matter because Lamar has been injured these last 2 years. In 2020 we were trying to win games with street FA DBs and it could happen again this year.Would also point out what I referenced in my context post... the 7th or 8th Corner is typically playing a lot of snaps 1-2 games late in the year because the team isn't actively trying to winning those games (i.e. week 16 or 17, while resting starters). There hasn't been many instances where these guys are forced into starting roles in games we're actually trying to win.
Right but 2020 you had like the world's largest influx of injuries. That's not something you can prep for. We would have needed to carry like 20 DBs on the 53 man for that to work, and you would have ended with the same guys out there that you put out there at the end anyway.I never talked about a league wide ranking, but about the Ravens keeping their first choice from the pool.
It only seems like those games don't matter because Lamar has been injured these last 2 years. In 2020 we were trying to win games with street FA DBs and it could happen again this year.
Looks like we're never going to agree here - you value special teams higher and I value depth at corner and the Ravens will go with the extra special teamer as usual.
First Ozzie then EDC repeatedly say you can never have enough corners, and then go with a max. of 6 on the roster and add street FAs every year.Right but 2020 you had like the world's largest influx of injuries. That's not something you can prep for. We would have needed to carry like 20 DBs on the 53 man for that to work, and you would have ended with the same guys out there that you put out there at the end anyway.
Who told you the Ravens never got their first choice of depth signings to begin with? Seems to me they're hitting that at a very high frequency. Like which specific names are they missing out on?
I don't think its about valuing depth. I think every team needs to be 5-6 deep at Corner. And you've agreed that they have been every year for a long time now. You just want above and beyond what's reasonable depth, which I think you're having a hard time selling.
Would also recommend for additional context that you look outside the Ravens and perhaps how other teams shape their Corner depth. Look at the roster distribution from their 53 to what they ultimately use, and the volume of snaps being played by 7th or 8th Corners on an average season. I think you'll find that distribution is incredibly similar to what the Ravens do, i.e. those players aren't providing any value on the defensive side without a large volume of injuries, and primarily act as ST contributors (if they contribute at all).
And I agree they'll go with the extra ST guy. Because he'll play more snaps, and make more impact, then the extra Corner will. The extra Corner you probably won't even know is on the roster, because he won't be suiting up for weeks or months.
Well a) a lot of them aren't street FA's, but PS calls ups from players already on our team and b) yeah, because what's the point of having more than six when only like 5 are dressing? Am I going to dress a sixth Corner and sit a 4th ILB (who's a better ST player) just so I have courage for 3 in-game injuries? That's not good roster or gameday construction any way you break it down.First Ozzie then EDC repeatedly say you can never have enough corners, and then go with a max. of 6 on the roster and add street FAs every year.
I'm talking CB depth because it's an important but injury prone position but I'm not fussy. I'd prefer getting rid of (non-specialist) special teams roster spots altogether to keep more off/def depth at any position.
You ask who we're missing out on, I'm thinking of the next Zack Seiler or Tim Patrick who have been exposed to other teams for the sake of Kristian Welch or whoever.
I'm a bit worried that you two are disagreeing here, because you both usually have a lot more facts at your fingertips than I do, but I'll check to see what's happened.
In 22 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch and Josh Ross who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
In 21 on the initial 53 we had Kristian Welch who barely saw a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 plus a Safety in season.
In 20 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 5 CBs and added 7 DBs in season.
In 19 on the initial 53 we had Otaro Alaka who didn't see a defensive snap. We started with 6 CBs and added 2 in season.
(From 19-21 we had Board as the principal S/T linebacker and he did see a defensive snaps, so the guys named were in addition to him.)
To me, that looks like a consistent pattern of 6 (or even 5) CBs not being quite enough to get through a season and 2 special teams linebackers being at least one too many.
At the 53rd roster spot, no player is a star, but I think it would be better to have a 7th CB of the Ravens choosing on the roster because he's almost certainly going to be starting a game at some point, rather than wasting that space an a S/T body and having to make do with whoever is available at a much more important position.
I take your point, Rossi, that rosters are too small but that's all the more reason not to waste a spot year after year.