Boldnpurpblack
Practice Squad
Yea.... i skipped ahead too quickly and missed that part.
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The General Front 7 Thread
- Thread starter JoeyFlex5
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Boldnpurpblack
Practice Squad
I would guess we're not playing more of an attacking, single gap style - otherwise i imagine we wouldve kept Jernigan. I always felt that was the best way to get the most out of him, and i think he'll do very well in Philly. I think if they planned on doing so, Jernigan would have had much more value internally - but as is he was somewhat expendable especially considering the contract year.
Though I guess its possible they wanted the improved pick regardless.
If I remember correctly Urban, on a per-snap basis was actually pretty productive from that 5T spot. I personally think its his job to lose. I think both Kaufusi and Wormley have more upside, but they felt confident enough letting both Guy and Jernigan go for a reason... Pierce is definitely one of them, but I think Urban's improved play down the stretch played a part too. His length is just tough to deal with.
If BWill or Pierce goes down, im not sure who the next up in line is at either NT or 3T.... but the candidates are Carl Davis, Willie Henry, or Chris Wormley ... How Training Camp plays out will determine that. Any one of these guys could surprise; Davis had high expectations coming in, Henry's raw tools can be elite, and Wormley has a very nice all-around game and a knack for coming up in big moments but rookie so we'll see (tough for me to set expectations at this point).
My gut says itd be Davis, my brain says itd be Wormley, the optimist in me hopes its Henry (bc if he can refine his game... hes got big upside)..
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
The BWill issue reminds me of the concern I had with going with Yanda over KO, at the time I said we should consider the long game because in two years KO will be the best guard in the league and Yanda will be regressing... and we're at that crossroad now.
Yanda was the best guard in the NFL last season and PFF's best lineman and only guard with an elite grade, for what that's worth.
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Now I didn't watch KO last year, all I know is he had 47 All Pro votes compared to Yanda's 6. If you go by the PFF metric then Yanda has been in a year after year decline, not uncommon for someone about to turn 33 but he also missed a few games and seemed to be banged up all year, thats not something that improves with age.
Yanda allowed zero hits or sacks and only six hurries on the year, so I wouldn't think I'd call him on the decline yet. Oh, and he did that after switching to LG because of a torn labrum... which he played through. He was the best guard in the NFL on a torn labrum.
I don't go by Pro Bowl votes, at all, especially for an offensive lineman. All I know is Yanda is regarded as elite and one of the premiere lineman.
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Thats All Pro votes not Pro Bowl, and not some subjective grade made by two guys from England. The point I'm making is that the long game isn't in our favor because of his age, personally I'm more concerned about the ongoing injuries because availability is still the best ability and he's on our books for three more seasons.
To be fair, they're being used by up to 24 NFL teams according to an interview with Chris Collinsworth this past November, so it's a bit more comprehensive than two blokes with across the pond given that they now employ over 250 people. Every opinion can be subjective, including the All-Pro votes. Not many Ravens fans expected for Zach Orr to receive an All-Pro nod and Eric Weddle leave completely empty-handed, but that was the case. I definitely understand the concern about age; however, there's been zero drop off from Yanda thus far, so it's a potential concern, but not an obvious one.
Have to believe that KO got All-Pro votes largely based on his contract bringing lots of recognition to him because he was just as good in Baltimore and didn't get any nods.
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
GMs and agents use PFF because it's still a tool for raw data you won't get anywhere else but the grading is always going to be subjective, to be fair AP is subjective too but the voters aren't some random data crunchers.
Its plausible.
I'm not saying KO didn't deserve it because he sure as hell deserved more recognition in Baltimore, but the AP voters are made up of sports writers who are inevitably not going to see every single player or notice every single player week in and week out. They're going to talk to other writers and take notice of who got big contracts and follow those players more closely to scrutinize their contract.
but you also have to take into account that KO got left tackle money which means we would have been playing him at left tackle which means we wouldnt have drafted ronnie stanley at #6
also important to note is that KO also missed time and has done throughout his career so i wouldnt call him particularly reliable either
and in terms of all pro votes KO was a higher profile guy because of the money he got, the qb he played for, the team he played for and the flashiness of their whole oline
Exactly this. Personally I feel that it's easier to put more stock into the results of those forced to watch every play of every contest than ones who have a vested, general coverage of the sport, especially since both are generally knowledgeable sources. There's no doubt that you'd expect AP writers to break down tape, but it's tough to swell with confidence in the possibility of each writer watching every offensive lineman extensively through at least most of their games. Aside from the solid point about the contracts mentioned above, the latter are also likelier to lean more on the simpler empirical data such as the team's YPC, rushing totals and sacks allowed in comparison to their numbers without the players being assessed. It's certainly sensible since there aren't many other telling means numbers wise, but it also has a higher chance of being uncorrelated with respect to the lone lineman. And with regards to the data provided by PFF, I feel that mentioning that the GMs and agents utilize the individual signature statistics and then denouncing the individual grades ignores the fact that the two generally have a direct correlation. For example, if you have high marks in pass rush productivity per snap, unless a large portion of your sacks are either unblocked or of the clean up variety i.e. Connor Barwin in 2014, you're very likely to have a high pass rushing grade. The same goes for pass protection. Yanda giving up 6 pressures in 612 pass blocking snaps, literally the lowest ratio ever recorded by PFF, means that he's likely due for a high grade as a pass blocker, so be it raw numbers or grades based on the tape, his level of success is corroborated from multiple angles. We were in the bottom bracket in most rushing numbers, while Oakland was at the top. Osemele himself is an elite lineman, a rising star, so it's not at all surprising to see him surpass Yanda in votes. But that alone would be a shallow basis in assessing Yanda's level of play this season. The guy hasn't given up a sack or a hit in 1,014 snaps, which is mind-boggling. He could very well dip in the future given his age, but thus far, we've seen zero indication of such so it's about as low of a concern as you could expect for a lineman in his 30s.
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Again I dont really care for the theories about KOs votes because its just speculation, he obviously made a huge tangible impact to the Raiders offense, come to think of it this is the first time Ive seen Ravens fans pumping up PFF.
To bring it back to the long game point I was trying to make over the next 3 years Yanda is going to decline while KO is in his prime.
To bring it back to the long game point I was trying to make over the next 3 years Yanda is going to decline while KO is in his prime.
I always trust PFF when it comes to OL, and OL only.
A large portion of the Forum Mock and Draft a Franchise users have been using it for years. I saw its grades and numbers posted countless times in the Ravens Talk section over the past few years. Speaking of the Ravens, I recall Bart Scott lauding their level of comprehension in an interview over a half decade ago. I've been openly using it as a resource for almost the last decade. They were one of the main reasons I purchased the NFL Game Pass, so that I could run continued repeated trials and check my findings against theirs, and they've been very much spot on in most areas. The latter of which doesn't occur enough. The surface level of hesitation is fully understandable, but it too often isn't followed by comparative breakdowns by those willing to review performances in full after the live games are broadcasted, and the hesitance begins to loses legs. Nothing should ever go unchecked, but in an area with inherent subjectivity, they're about as reliable of a resource as you can have.
The Yanda and KO conversation is great constructive conversation, but should be moved to the OL thread.