The General Front 7 Thread

[BloodRaven]

Neither was going to be competent run stopper early in their careers, before the draft I had Ngakoue one tier above Correa. I thought Correa was purely an effort rusher, hes twitchy but it's all limited by his compact build, he can't bend or move like Ngakoue either but thats irrelevant now Correa has dropped weight and moved inside.

 

[Truth]

Who cares about defending the run dude!! Very small details. somebody else can make the tackle. Who cares if he gets an extra yard. lol Way the game is going the league is eventually going to put a WR next to the QB that is allowed to run 5 times a game.

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

 

[Jacquouille]

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

That was smooth.

 

[RavensMania]

Who cares about defending the run dude!! Very small details. somebody else can make the tackle. Who cares if he gets an extra yard. lol Way the game is going the league is eventually going to put a WR next to the QB that is allowed to run 5 times a game.

Lmao, Serious. I see @Truth already railed on you and I'll leave it at that. Can't believe you consider yourself a knowledgeable fan after that statement.

 

[RavensMania]

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

Very well said....again

 

[rossihunter2]

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

I mean to be fair you could probably include the titans in best offenses of last year as well.
And a crazy titans stat is this: demarco murray faced 8 man boxes more than any other runner last year but still had an average vs 8 man boxes of over 4 ypc - in fact it was the 2nd best ypc number vs 8 man boxes in the league last year. But who was the best? Derrick Henry. That's incredible.

 

[allblackraven]

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

I can't help but notice - there's a lot of Derrick Henry mention in your post

 

[Sooky]

I mean to be fair you could probably include the titans in best offenses of last year as well.
And a crazy titans stat is this: demarco murray faced 8 man boxes more than any other runner last year but still had an average vs 8 man boxes of over 4 ypc - in fact it was the 2nd best ypc number vs 8 man boxes in the league last year. But who was the best? Derrick Henry. That's incredible.

That is amazing. But do you think they can recreate those numbers or was that a magic year? That is why I hestitate to call the Titans a for sure playoff team next year. To recreate that succesful offense they had last year was magical and they still only won 7-8 games? I love where the Titans are headed and their o-line and running backs are incredible but when the media hypes them as an up and coming team I tend to be more cautious

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Defending the run, very small details, in the same sentence with a direction correlation. I don't even know where to begin. If you lose contain on the edge, or are washed out of the running gap, the chances of giving up a single extra yard on average are astronomically low, if not outright nonexistent. Of the Top 5 teams in least rushing yards allowed per game, we were the only one without a winning record. The combined record of said teams was 55-25. On the flip side, the Bottom 5's was coincidentally 29-51. Now there's obviously more that goes into the totals, i.e. teams playing from behind abandoning the run, etc. But rush defense is very much an important factor in this league. Who cares about defending this run? Off the top of my head, us for one? The team with arguably the best run defense last year, the same one willing to reset the market for a run-stuffing NT? The general focus makes sense considering that some of the most prolific offenses from this past year had outstanding rushing attacks. Dallas was 2nd, Atlanta 5th, featuring one of the league's best RBs and best RB duo, respectively. Oakland followed, ranking 6th. Even New England finished 7th in rushing yards and 3rd in rushing attempts per game. It's no surprise that most of the foundational franchise edge rushers are at least decent run defenders. J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack and Justin Houston are the gold standard. All outstanding run defenders. Joey Bosa could be leaning toward that category and he was terrific against the run. The only elite caliber edge rusher that comes to mind who's been a liability is Cameron Wake. That's because most rushers who struggle in the running game become situational pass rushers, which limits their stock and ceiling.

With regards to Ngakoue, you don't have to look much further than the 22-36 loss against the Titans as an indication of poor run defense on the edges ruining the game plan. Here (Link), Ngakoue gets pushed inside by Anthony Fasano, the RG Josh Kline gets to tee off on Jalen Ramsey, and Telvin Smith is forced to fight through FB Jalston Fowler just to get a piece of Derrick Henry on a 15 yard scamper, all beginning with an immediate loss on the perimeter. Then (Link) not only does he get swallowed up by Taylor Lewan, but he also vacates the outside, allowing DeMarco Murray to cut back for the 15 yard score. Not to mention getting planted by Fasano on the 6 yard TD by Henry (Link). That's 3 plays for 36 yards and 2 TDs, all losing football, in a game where they gave up 214 yards and a 5.0 YPC. This isn't meant as a jab by any means, but I honestly didn't expect to have to argue in favor of run defense with a fellow Ravens fan.

I honestly thought u would pick up on the sarcasm. Pertaining to how much of a throwing league the NFL is becoming. Of course defending the run is more than stupid little details. But once again an interesting read from the resident doc!!

BTW on a side note. I'm a little curious on why you picked the titans as your example?? You expect them to have one of the best running attacks. I do personally like their offensive line. It is being sold short when discussing best offensive lines. It could be as good as anybody's including the Cowboys. Taylor Lewan in my opinion is the new Joe Thomas. The best LT behind only Tyron and maybe Trent. A stronger version of Ronnie Stanley with a very big mean streak

 

[Truth]

I mean to be fair you could probably include the titans in best offenses of last year as well.
And a crazy titans stat is this: demarco murray faced 8 man boxes more than any other runner last year but still had an average vs 8 man boxes of over 4 ypc - in fact it was the 2nd best ypc number vs 8 man boxes in the league last year. But who was the best? Derrick Henry. That's incredible.

Yep, yep. They low-key had one of the best offensive lines in the league last year. The scariest part is that they're even more balanced this year.

 

[Truth]

I can't help but notice - there's a lot of Derrick Henry mention in your post

I have a feeling that the words Derrick Henry are the first suggested item in your search boxes. Exactly though. Ngakoue was so porous in run defense, he even made Henry look like a capable RB

 

[Truth]

I honestly thought u would pick up on the sarcasm. Pertaining to how much of a throwing league the NFL is becoming. Of course defending the run is more than stupid little details. But once again an interesting read from the resident doc!!

BTW on a side note. I'm a little curious on why you picked the titans as your example?? You expect them to have one of the best running attacks. I do personally like their offensive line. It is being sold short when discussing best offensive lines. It could be as good as anybody's including the Cowboys. Taylor Lewan in my opinion is the new Joe Thomas. The best LT behind only Tyron and maybe Trent. A stronger version of Ronnie Stanley with a very big mean streak

Ah, I see. I wondered whether it was sarcasm initially but thought it was a serious notion when it mentioned other defenders picking up the slack. Disregard it then, and much appreciated.

You've nailed it on all accounts there. They have one of the best offensive lines for sure, and it's such a young unit. I'm hesitant to throw any name around in the Joe Thomas category only because Thomas was arguably the unquestioned best during his prime, but Lewan is absolutely an elite LT.

 

[rossihunter2]

That is amazing. But do you think they can recreate those numbers or was that a magic year? That is why I hestitate to call the Titans a for sure playoff team next year. To recreate that succesful offense they had last year was magical and they still only won 7-8 games? I love where the Titans are headed and their o-line and running backs are incredible but when the media hypes them as an up and coming team I tend to be more cautious

i think the titans have up and come already to be honest - they were 9-7 last year and finished the season without mariota, this was with no wrs - they now have corey davis, eric decker and taywan taylor to add to rishard mathews and tajae sharp - they still have demarco murray and i assume they will get dereck henry more involved this up coming year - mariota has looked strong in the pocket and has been incredibly efficient near the redzone which bodes well for his career moving forwards - they also have delanie walker as a significant part of the offense - and their oline is only getting better... taylor lewan was a guy i really wanted in the draft but obviously he got taken ahead of us but he's turned into a nasty pro-bowl left tackle and on the other side jack conklin might already be the best right tackle in the nfl after only one season - given that they will inevitably not let taylor lewan go anywhere they have maybe the best tackle tandem in the league for at least the next 4 years

the reason i say all that is because i think the stat that i posted will be almost meaningless this upcoming year - not because i think their rushing will be worse - but because they now have actual threats at receiver so teams wont be able to stack the box consistently - i fully expect the titans to face 6/7 man boxes a lot because of the threat the titans now pose on the outside and down the field

the texans might have the number 1 defense in the league next year but i think the number 1 offense will be one of the falcons, chargers, patriots, steelers and titans - the titans may also benefit from their new return man adoree jackson giving them shorter fields i expect the titans to win the south

 

[jboy19]

i think the titans have up and come already to be honest - they were 9-7 last year and finished the season without mariota, this was with no wrs - they now have corey davis, eric decker and taywan taylor to add to rishard mathews and tajae sharp - they still have demarco murray and i assume they will get dereck henry more involved this up coming year - mariota has looked strong in the pocket and has been incredibly efficient near the redzone which bodes well for his career moving forwards - they also have delanie walker as a significant part of the offense - and their oline is only getting better... taylor lewan was a guy i really wanted in the draft but obviously he got taken ahead of us but he's turned into a nasty pro-bowl left tackle and on the other side jack conklin might already be the best right tackle in the nfl after only one season - given that they will inevitably not let taylor lewan go anywhere they have maybe the best tackle tandem in the league for at least the next 4 years

the reason i say all that is because i think the stat that i posted will be almost meaningless this upcoming year - not because i think their rushing will be worse - but because they now have actual threats at receiver so teams wont be able to stack the box consistently - i fully expect the titans to face 6/7 man boxes a lot because of the threat the titans now pose on the outside and down the field

the texans might have the number 1 defense in the league next year but i think the number 1 offense will be one of the falcons, chargers, patriots, steelers and titans - the titans may also benefit from their new return man adoree jackson giving them shorter fields i expect the titans to win the south

The biggest issue with the Titans is keeping Mariota healthy. If he can't stay healthy for 16 games behind arguably the best OL in football, will he ever?

 

[rossihunter2]

The biggest issue with the Titans is keeping Mariota healthy. If he can't stay healthy for 16 games behind arguably the best OL in football, will he ever?

it's a legitimate issue but he looks electric when he is on the field

 

[Truth]

The biggest issue with the Titans is keeping Mariota healthy. If he can't stay healthy for 16 games behind arguably the best OL in football, will he ever?

And that would fall on Mariota given that he has arguably one of the best surrounding pieces offensively. The numbers were terrific but he was at times hesitant to make the throw initially, especially in the short passing areas. And that second or two of added waiting time on on the three step drops can lead to hits taken. Even Mike Mularkey commented on his hesitance mid-season. Hopefully another year in the offense would help subdue it to an extent.

 

[BloodRaven]

Taking it back on topic ...how much drop off could we have expected if we had let BWill walk and went with Pierce as our starting anchor? Obviously it's a lot of money to give to a low usage (60%) player who doesn't touch the ball or QB, also 5 years is a long time to be tied up to a 28 years old. The flip side is that he is the only player on our front with real starting experience and he's the best run stuffer in the league.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Taking it back on topic ...how much drop off could we have expected if we had let BWill walk and went with Pierce as our starting anchor? Obviously it's a lot of money to give to a low usage (60%) player who doesn't touch the ball or QB, also 5 years is a long time to be tied up to a 28 years old. The flip side is that he is the only player on our front with real starting experience and he's the best run stuffer in the league.

i wasnt big on the signing myself, but it makes sense. we needed an improvement in speed and pass defense, and our run defense was stout already, so why sign bwill? well, because stuffing the run is still the absolute most important aspect of defense, it may be kinda easy to acquire good run stuffers, but it isnt easy to acquire an anchoring NT of bwills caliber, subbing pierce for bwill we probably see a small drop off, but having both on the field basically makes the run defense impenetrable, and having a second guy of pierces caliber allows for an excellent rotation and backup in case of injury. so while we could have let williams walk and save a bunch of money to address weaker areas, we are now certain that our run defense continues to be perhaps the best in the league, there will be no question about it.

teams arent running the ball against williams and pierce on the DL, and nothing makes your pass defense better than not having to worry about defending the run. force the offense to play one dimensional and your job gets easier. couldve been only a small drop off, but if other factors began to come into play then suddenly our run defense could suffer big time. all in all, maybe its not a risk worth taking.

 

[jboy19]

Taking it back on topic ...how much drop off could we have expected if we had let BWill walk and went with Pierce as our starting anchor? Obviously it's a lot of money to give to a low usage (60%) player who doesn't touch the ball or QB, also 5 years is a long time to be tied up to a 28 years old. The flip side is that he is the only player on our front with real starting experience and he's the best run stuffer in the league.

I think it's hard to tell without knowing how Pierce is going to adjust to more of a full time role. I also think that the team probably would have kept Jernigan around if BWill had walked, but idk if they would have anyway.

I think that the team is expecting more from BWill and probably wants him to be a versatile NT/3T like Ngata was-and he did find himself in that role somewhat often last season, but I'm not sure he ever brings the same pass rush ability as Ngata.

 

[Jacquouille]

Other than production and money, BWill is the face of the defense. Like it or not, he is. He is what makes the Ravens D, the Ravens D. And he is the next great Raven-raised defender. Mosley will surely follow, but right now the one who gives us our identity on defense is BWill. Not even mentionning his locjer room presence.
I think it was with this mindset that the FO got all the bills on the table.