Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
What y'all think? I think they need to fix the hue of purple a bit, but I ain't mad at it.
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The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
- Start date
The two topics I try to think the least about is 1. death and 2. Life after Justin Tucker
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
Sir......let's not speak of topic #2 at this moment.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I HAVE BEEN CLAMORING FOR THIS! Except I want a black jersey with white numbers and a purple outline
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Death is a welcomed embrace compared to #2
Tank
Hall of Famer
I want to see a matte black helmet.
Nurps
Ravens Ring of Honor
Same. For a while now…..
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Matte black helmet, same decal as in the pic but the purple needs a chrome finish
QtR Nevermore
Pro Bowler
This isn't just based on the Lamar situation, though that is part of it, but I get the feeling that NFL teams are starting to look at QB differently.
No team wants to talk to Lamar. Green Bay are kicking Rodgers out the door and it seems like only one team is really interested. Carr didn't have a very competitive market, even though he's far above the usual type of QB that hits free agency. Geno and Jones' deals both seem like they have relatively easy outs after 2 years, and a lot of teams seem content to wait and see what the draft has in store.
It could be that these are all aspects of the owners' collusion. Have they all got together and decided that a competitive QB market just ends up costing them all money, so they're all going to stand back and let each team re-sign their own guy?
Or it could be that teams are forecasting a relative glut at the QB position. There aren't that many teams without a starter, teams are hopeful about all 4 guys in the draft this year and next year's group is apparently better. Maybe they just expect the draft to start throwing out 3/4 starters every year, with the increased passing in college?
There definitely a bigger group of bridge starter/high end back-up types than I can ever remember before. Jimmy G, Brissett, Mayfield, Dalton, Darnold, Jameis, Minshew, Davis Mills, Trubisky, Heinicke, Mike White, Bridgewater etc etc. There are so many guys who have played pretty well in the league that they're going to get paid less than ever before. It's never been easier to find non-disastrous QB play. Some of them might even end up having a Tannehill/Geno/Goff style career revival.
Maybe teams are less scared about missing out on QB because there are so many ways to find one now?
No team wants to talk to Lamar. Green Bay are kicking Rodgers out the door and it seems like only one team is really interested. Carr didn't have a very competitive market, even though he's far above the usual type of QB that hits free agency. Geno and Jones' deals both seem like they have relatively easy outs after 2 years, and a lot of teams seem content to wait and see what the draft has in store.
It could be that these are all aspects of the owners' collusion. Have they all got together and decided that a competitive QB market just ends up costing them all money, so they're all going to stand back and let each team re-sign their own guy?
Or it could be that teams are forecasting a relative glut at the QB position. There aren't that many teams without a starter, teams are hopeful about all 4 guys in the draft this year and next year's group is apparently better. Maybe they just expect the draft to start throwing out 3/4 starters every year, with the increased passing in college?
There definitely a bigger group of bridge starter/high end back-up types than I can ever remember before. Jimmy G, Brissett, Mayfield, Dalton, Darnold, Jameis, Minshew, Davis Mills, Trubisky, Heinicke, Mike White, Bridgewater etc etc. There are so many guys who have played pretty well in the league that they're going to get paid less than ever before. It's never been easier to find non-disastrous QB play. Some of them might even end up having a Tannehill/Geno/Goff style career revival.
Maybe teams are less scared about missing out on QB because there are so many ways to find one now?
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I think it’s maybe the realization that Brady, Peyton, and mahomes are not available in every draft or FA class, you get one or two guys every now and again who play pretty well, but qbs carrying the franchise on albatross contracts seems to be a thing of the past, I don’t think the packers are feeling good about their contract to Rodgers right now, browns with watson, Vikings with Kirk, cards with murray, there’s just a shit ton of buyers remorse out there in regards to qbs
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I personally think its getting easier and easier to find a QB you can win with, particularly with the influx of quality offensive playcallers in the league.
The way I see it... there's at least 20 teams in the league, today, that have a QB on their roster that they feel they can win a SB with. I know fans think there's only like 5-6 great one's and everybody else is dead weight, but I guarantee coaches, GMs, and Owners don't feel that way, and only their opinion matters. I 100% think the Dolphins think they can win a SB with Tua. I think Vikings, Lions, Giants, Seahawks, Bears, etc. feel they can win a SB with the QB on their roster today. Right or wrong.
And the majority of the rest of the league either has a rookie that they're not sure about but can't move off of yet (Patriots, 49ers, etc.) or think they can get a high-quality QB in the draft in the next year or two.
Plus, there comes a natural point in every sport where the value of a certain position group peaks. I don't think the trajectory for QB valuations is sustainable, i.e. I don't think because the cap will be $300M in 3-4 years that QBs will automatically be getting $60-70M a year then. I don't think one has not necessarily correlate with another. The wider the gap gets between high quality veteran $ and rookie $, the more value the latter becomes and the less valuable the former becomes.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Do agree on this. I have no doubt there's plenty of Owners, GMs, etc. looking at recent QB deals and the outcomes since (though its only like a 1-2 year sample size) and thinking to themselves "yikes, I don't want to be that guy".
I mean if you go through the deals signed in like the last five years:
Mahomes and Allen are kind of the only deals that look "great" at this point.
After one year, Murray, Watson and Wilson look like disasters.
Dak signed in 2021, and that doesn't look like a particularly great deal at the moment
Stafford won a SB, but he got an extension that kicked in last year and lasts through 2026, and they're simply making roster overhauls
Packers want out of the Rodgers deal one year into a 3 year extension
Matt Ryan and Ryan Tannehill's deals were mostly colossal failures
Raiders moved off of Carr one year into a four year extension
Jared Goff's deal surprisingly looks OK
Like I see maybe 2 for certain, and maybe 3-4 out of 12 total deals in like a 4-5 year period where the team can confidently say "yeah, that was a good decision". Everything else is either a disaster, somebody who's just middling and not winning, or guys that in the first year look dreadful.
And I think Owners and GMs see this stuff and are like "if I'm not getting an elite guy", why am I paying them $45-50M a year?
QtR Nevermore
Pro Bowler
I'm on the opposite side regarding QB value. (Of course I am. Maybe one day we'll agree on something?)
The quote that football is both a team sport and an individual sport rings true with me. I think the QB is about 30% of a team on the field. It's relatively easy to win with a good one and very hard to win with a bad one, so I think they're underpaid compared to other positions. (In a theoretical vaccuum. In a league where other teams are underpaying their guy more than you're underpaying you're guy, it doesn't work.)
That doesn't mean I think they should be paid more, or that owners are going to allow it to happen, just that the position is that influential, for good or bad.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
OK, but I think NFL coaches are realizing that there's more good one's than the public thinks, and that they can scheme and coach there way into winning with a good one.
They don't think they need Mahomes. They'd like to have one, but its not a requirement. And I think they'll take 70-80% of somebody at $5M a year instead of Dak at $45M a year. I think that's the shift.
I think the market for superstar QBs will continue to increase. I think the market for mid-tier starters who teams think they can win with, but probably won't. will flatten out.
QtR Nevermore
Pro Bowler
I agree. (See, told you it would happen.)
QtR Nevermore
Pro Bowler
I've thought that for years. Starters went down, back ups came in and sometimes they were competent like Keenum and Brissett and GMs said "I want to pay that guy $15M a year," and sometimes they were really good like Geno, Dak, Cousins or Foles and the GMs said "I want to pay that guy $40m a year" when what they should have been saying all along was "Maybe my own 4th or 5th Rd back up could also be good?"
If that's finally dawned on them, it was about time.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well and its not even that they won't invest in those guys. It's that their investment has "outs", which is what we keep referencing for Lamar.
Seattle will gladly pay Geno $105M over three years... if he plays well. If he doesn't, he'll be gone within a year or two. Same for Carr. Same for Jones. Even all the jerking off over Cousins fully gtd deals... no team commits anything to him beyond 3 years, ever.
drjohnnyfever
Pro Bowler
Yep.
I'm not saying it is going to become the next RB-type drop-off in pay, but it is an unsustainable trend, particularly with the guaranteed money aspect. The QB's coming out seem far more prepared for NFL play today than those of several years ago. With that in mind, being able to draft suitable replacements or getting castoffs from other teams due to payroll, might be the new trend. I have no problem with that and even thru this whole Lamar negotiation have been one of only a few that keep saying it's a team sport and one guy doesn't win by himself.
QtR Nevermore
Pro Bowler
I think Lamar is tiers above those guys. It seems like the Ravens do too. He's a QB you win because of. The Ravens have asked him to do so much and he usually accomplished it, when healthy