The Random Thought Thread

[rossihunter2]

Who would you all consider good refs?

depends what you mean by good refs - they all make mistakes and some of them have been higher profile than others

but assuming they'll make mistakes (including catastrophic ones) i like the ones who don't call a ton of penalties in games at all...

based off of that i'm looking at bill vinovich (albeit he was guilty for the blown no-call in the saints-rams championship game in 2018 but has also been the referee in 2 of the last 6 superbowls

scott novak has been pretty uncontroversial and throws the fewest flags in the league this year (was low last year too - as was vinovich)

john hussey's crew had a bad game when we played the chiefs but is normally a high level official

brad allen is fairly untarnished and has only been around for like 7 seasons but has had a couple of problems with the clock but has otherwise been fine

Craig Wrolstad also pretty unblemished career so far

 

[purplepittabread88]

So the cards are down 7 with 2:30 left to play. I’d say there’s almost a 90% chance kyler goes and ties it. If it were Lamar, I would probably turn off the tv and take the loss. We have literally no chance of scoring a touchdown on a drive under 3 minutes without a 60 yard pass interference going for us.

 

[RavensFan419]

So the cards are down 7 with 2:30 left to play. I’d say there’s almost a 90% chance kyler goes and ties it. If it were Lamar, I would probably turn off the tv and take the loss. We have literally no chance of scoring a touchdown on a drive under 3 minutes without a 60 yard pass interference going for us.

Lol looks like you were wrong Kyler isn't better than Lamar y'all are so dumb

 

[RavensFan419]

And I'm not even a Lamar fan boy like some people here I was accused last year of being too critical of him and a Flacco fan boy but Kyler is not better some people have seemed to forget how dominate Lamar was during that stretch last season like it was insane and now the bar is set way too high and everyone thinks the sky is falling

 

[purplepittabread88]

Lol looks like you were wrong Kyler isn't better than Lamar y'all are so dumb

Lamar would have had a 3 and out or fumbled the ball in the first 30 seconds lmao

 

[rossihunter2]

Lamar would have had a 3 and out or fumbled the ball in the first 30 seconds lmao

or like last week he would have had a monsoon suddenly hit and his receivers drop passes with the pocket collapsing all around him
not sure what you wanted him to do in a much harder comeback scenario

this just doesnt feel like a fair criticism of lamar - you can argue that we havent been successful coming from behind but tbf in lamar's career we've only been behind in like 8 total games (or something ridiculous like that - maybe im misremembering)

and there's a whole lot of things that go into a comeback but we know lamar can be incredible and efficient in the 2 minute offence

 

[RavensFan419]

Lamar would have had a 3 and out or fumbled the ball in the first 30 seconds lmao

Lol you gotta be trolling and I really hope you aren't using last weeks monsoon as a reference...

 

[rmcjacket23]

Lol you gotta be trolling and I really hope you aren't using last weeks monsoon as a reference...

Ehh, think you're whiffing a bit here:
1. Lamar is a better runner
2. Kyler is, by a pretty wide margin, a much better thrower of the football. Uses a lot more touch, much better with the deep ball, and is pretty much as good as Lamar and alluding pressure and making plays.

As it were, statistically, if I just do an apples to apples of the two players from 2019-forward:
Lamar: 65.3% comp pct, 276 total yards/game, 60 total TDs, 11 INTs in 24 regular season games.
Kyler: 66.0% comp pct, 290 total yards/game, 53 total TDs, 20 INTs in 26 regular season games.

Kyler throws more INTs, though that is mostly a product of more pass attempts than Lamar, since very few QBs throw it less than Lamar does.

So over a 1.5 year sample, you would argue for Lamar.

However, the main reason people prefer Kyler today is because, well, by pretty much any possible metric, he's played better than Lamar this season.

Kyler is a higher completion %, higher Yards/attempt, a gigantic lead in TDs, and the turnover ratios are pretty close between the two. Hell, in rushing yards/attempt, Kyler's been better this year.

As most in the media would tell you, what you're seeing, regardless of whatever excuses/impacts, etc. you want to differentiate the two, is an ASCENDING QB in Kyler, vs a DESCENDING QB in Lamar. That could just be a one year sample size, but you also have a relatively small sample size to make the claim that Lamar is significantly better too, because that's almost entirely based on one year also.

Kyler is checking most of the boxes of what you want to see out of a 2nd year QB. More efficiency, more play making ability, increasing TDs, statis or declining turnover rates.

In fact, if you look at Lamar's 15 games last year and project Kyler's to 15 games this year:
Lamar: 66.1%, 4,333 total yards, 43 TDs, 8 turnovers, 7.8 PYPA, 6.8 RYPA
Kyler: 68.3%, 4,895 total yards, 45 TDs, 15 turnovers, 7.5 PYPA, 6.7 RYPA

So 2020 Kyler is on track to beat 2019 MVP-winner Lamar on completion %, total yards (by a very wide margin), and TDs. They're extremely comparable as runners. The only major advantage 2019 Lamar has over 2020 Kyler is in the turnover department.

 

[RavensFan419]

Ehh, think you're whiffing a bit here:
1. Lamar is a better runner
2. Kyler is, by a pretty wide margin, a much better thrower of the football. Uses a lot more touch, much better with the deep ball, and is pretty much as good as Lamar and alluding pressure and making plays.

As it were, statistically, if I just do an apples to apples of the two players from 2019-forward:
Lamar: 65.3% comp pct, 276 total yards/game, 60 total TDs, 11 INTs in 24 regular season games.
Kyler: 66.0% comp pct, 290 total yards/game, 53 total TDs, 20 INTs in 26 regular season games.

Kyler throws more INTs, though that is mostly a product of more pass attempts than Lamar, since very few QBs throw it less than Lamar does.

So over a 1.5 year sample, you would argue for Lamar.

However, the main reason people prefer Kyler today is because, well, by pretty much any possible metric, he's played better than Lamar this season.

Kyler is a higher completion %, higher Yards/attempt, a gigantic lead in TDs, and the turnover ratios are pretty close between the two. Hell, in rushing yards/attempt, Kyler's been better this year.

As most in the media would tell you, what you're seeing, regardless of whatever excuses/impacts, etc. you want to differentiate the two, is an ASCENDING QB in Kyler, vs a DESCENDING QB in Lamar. That could just be a one year sample size, but you also have a relatively small sample size to make the claim that Lamar is significantly better too, because that's almost entirely based on one year also.

Kyler is checking most of the boxes of what you want to see out of a 2nd year QB. More efficiency, more play making ability, increasing TDs, statis or declining turnover rates.

In fact, if you look at Lamar's 15 games last year and project Kyler's to 15 games this year:
Lamar: 66.1%, 4,333 total yards, 43 TDs, 8 turnovers, 7.8 PYPA, 6.8 RYPA
Kyler: 68.3%, 4,895 total yards, 45 TDs, 15 turnovers, 7.5 PYPA, 6.7 RYPA

So 2020 Kyler is on track to beat 2019 MVP-winner Lamar on completion %, total yards (by a very wide margin), and TDs. They're extremely comparable as runners. The only major advantage 2019 Lamar has over 2020 Kyler is in the turnover department.

Let's revisit this at the end of the season how about that also I'd hope Kyler is throwing a little better please compare who he's throwing the ball too to who Lamar did last year it's not even a comparison to have more picks and hardly be on track to be better says enough to me you have to take into account who's playing with what

 

[RavensFan419]

Lamar ha arguably the worst weapons in the NFL that's a fact every young QB has a star WR Sam Darnold is the only exception and I'd argue I'd rather have Mims Perriman and Crowder over our WR if I'm being honest

 

[RavensFan419]

Meanwhile Kyler is tossing the ball to Larry Fitz DeAndre Hopkins and Christian Kirk now that's not his fault but I'd hope he could produce more with that it makes his job a hell of a lot easier don't get me wrong I think Kyler is a great QB but this comparison is really not fair I think if the situation was flip flopped Lamar would have better numbers just my opinion but Kyler is the only comparable athlete in the NFL to what Lamar does

 

[rmcjacket23]

Let's revisit this at the end of the season how about that also I'd hope Kyler is throwing a little better please compare who he's throwing the ball too to who Lamar did last year it's not even a comparison to have more picks and hardly be on track to be better says enough to me you have to take into account who's playing with what

OK, but that's the point. There's literally no valid way to compare to players across different teams, since neither has the same coaching, personnel, etc.

You say the Cardinals have better playmakers outside, and I would agree. How about offensive line? In 2019, that was a MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR benefit for Lamar. Lamar got to play behind one of the premier offensive lines in the league last year, and Kyler was playing behind one of the absolute worst offensive lines in the league last year. Some would argue it was THE worst. And there was no DeAndre Hopkins on the 2019 team either. It was Kirk and an over-the-hill Larry Fitzgerald. I'm not certain I would have taken their 2019 offensive unit at all over the Ravens. I'd rather have Kirk than, say, Boykin, but I'm not sure their entire offensive personnel was better.

Fast forward to 2020, and Kyler has better weapons and, maybe, a better offensive line, though they're still far from a great line at this point. The only reason they'd be better at this point is because of injuries to the Ravens side.

So like this whole "well he has better players around him" argument needs to be looked at in totality, over multiple seasons. Not just one season, and not just looking at pass catchers.

Kyler is getting the credit he deserves because he's significantly improved year-over-year, he's a playmaker with both his arms and his feet, and he's leading his team to comeback wins and making big time throws in big time moments. The latter two things are things Lamar has notoriously struggled with over the past 25+ games.

 

[RavensFan419]

OK, but that's the point. There's literally no valid way to compare to players across different teams, since neither has the same coaching, personnel, etc.

You say the Cardinals have better playmakers outside, and I would agree. How about offensive line? In 2019, that was a MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR, MAJOR benefit for Lamar. Lamar got to play behind one of the premier offensive lines in the league last year, and Kyler was playing behind one of the absolute worst offensive lines in the league last year. Some would argue it was THE worst. And there was no DeAndre Hopkins on the 2019 team either. It was Kirk and an over-the-hill Larry Fitzgerald. I'm not certain I would have taken their 2019 offensive unit at all over the Ravens. I'd rather have Kirk than, say, Boykin, but I'm not sure their entire offensive personnel was better.

Fast forward to 2020, and Kyler has better weapons and, maybe, a better offensive line, though they're still far from a great line at this point. The only reason they'd be better at this point is because of injuries to the Ravens side.

So like this whole "well he has better players around him" argument needs to be looked at in totality, over multiple seasons. Not just one season, and not just looking at pass catchers.

Kyler is getting the credit he deserves because he's significantly improved year-over-year, he's a playmaker with both his arms and his feet, and he's leading his team to comeback wins and making big time throws in big time moments. The latter two things are things Lamar has notoriously struggled with over the past 25+ games.

Fair enough but I don't see how people can just crown him when we are hardly half way through the season we can revisit this at the end of the season maybe he proves me wrong but I don't think he has a better overall season then Lamar did last season by the end of this

 

[RavensFan419]

I also think Lamar gets hot over the next few weeks I just have this feeling but I could be wrong

 

[JoeyFlex5]

depends what you mean by good refs - they all make mistakes and some of them have been higher profile than others

but assuming they'll make mistakes (including catastrophic ones) i like the ones who don't call a ton of penalties in games at all...

based off of that i'm looking at bill vinovich (albeit he was guilty for the blown no-call in the saints-rams championship game in 2018 but has also been the referee in 2 of the last 6 superbowls

scott novak has been pretty uncontroversial and throws the fewest flags in the league this year (was low last year too - as was vinovich)

john hussey's crew had a bad game when we played the chiefs but is normally a high level official

brad allen is fairly untarnished and has only been around for like 7 seasons but has had a couple of problems with the clock but has otherwise been fine

Craig Wrolstad also pretty unblemished career so far

Hussey is the absolute worst to me, he’s way too trigger happy and he will quite literally alter the course of a game every step of the way over the most ticky tacky shit

 

[rmcjacket23]

Fair enough but I don't see how people can just crown him when we are hardly half way through the season we can revisit this at the end of the season maybe he proves me wrong but I don't think he has a better overall season then Lamar did last season by the end of this

Well, they're crowning Kyler about as quickly as we all crowned Lamar last year, which at this point, seems a bit premature as well.

 

[RavensFan419]

Well, they're crowning Kyler about as quickly as we all crowned Lamar last year, which at this point, seems a bit premature as well.

I disagree at this point a lot of people had not crowned Lamar especially the media it was easily not until we beat the 49ers that people got in

 

[rossihunter2]

Hussey is the absolute worst to me, he’s way too trigger happy and he will quite literally alter the course of a game every step of the way over the most ticky tacky shit

that’s fair enough and as I pointed out he had a bad game in week 3 with us vs chiefs - it probably doesn’t change the outcome at all but it definitely didn’t help our chances

 

[rossihunter2]

Well, they're crowning Kyler about as quickly as we all crowned Lamar last year, which at this point, seems a bit premature as well.

I mean that’s fair but at this point in the 2019 season Lamar had just had 3 games in a row where he’d started tearing teams up

 

[rmcjacket23]

I disagree at this point a lot of people had not crowned Lamar especially the media it was easily not until we beat the 49ers that people got in

OK, so basically its not OK to crown him now but in 6 weeks it is?

Like we can go that route, but I'm not really seeing anything coming up that you would expect Kyler to bottom out or start regressing.

Like he's got some challenging games left on the schedule, but he also has some soft one's too. So if you're hanging your hat on this argument being a combination of a) Kyler playing a lot worse and b) Lamar playing a lot better, I think you're going to end up disappointed when its all said and done.

I think Lamar may play well this weekend, I think he's going to get eaten alive against Pittsburgh, and I think as we head into December, as possibly a 6-5 football team, the mantra on this offense is going to be "run the ball, run the ball, run the ball". Because the confidence in this offensive line is fading by the week, and Pittsburgh isn't the kind of team you play to get confidence in pass protection.