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The Random Thought Thread

I don’t think I ever want to take a TE in the first round ever again. I think that position is more often injured than any other and would avoid ever drafting one in the first and possibly even 2nd round. I’d consider them only after the 2nd rounds from now on.
 
Grim said:
I don’t think I ever want to take a TE in the first round ever again. I think that position is more often injured than any other and would avoid ever drafting one in the first and possibly even 2nd round. I’d consider them only after the 2nd rounds from now on.
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Hurst actually caught a pass yesterday. Progress!
 
Grim said:
I don’t think I ever want to take a TE in the first round ever again. I think that position is more often injured than any other and would avoid ever drafting one in the first and possibly even 2nd round. I’d consider them only after the 2nd rounds from now on.
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I think our FO needs to do a better job associating which positions should be drafted at what round. A big reason why we are knee deep in the shitter is because we address the offense in the later rounds and the defense in the earlier rounds. The reality is, while I do get the value of a Marlon Humphrey, good corners are found in every round. Our own Tavon Young is a good example of that. Good guards are, but the hit rate(and importance) is much higher in the first few. Good WRs usually don't fall to the middle rounds. Good TEs can though. Good dlinmen can be found anywhere, but good offensive linemen are usually taken earlier than later.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule(including generational talents. I'm sorry but I take Saquon in the top 5 10/10 times). But we need to evaluate.... well value lol. I think Hayden Hurst is going to be a good player and it's not like he's been total ass either. He flashes his abilities. But a Willie Hernandez would have been so much more beneficial to Lamar now, and moving forward. Especially since we got Andrews later and he looks like a guy who is going to make a pro bowler one day.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
I think our FO needs to do a better job associating which positions should be drafted at what round. A big reason why we are knee deep in the shitter is because we address the offense in the later rounds and the defense in the earlier rounds. The reality is, while I do get the value of a Marlon Humphrey, good corners are found in every round. Our own Tavon Young is a good example of that. Good guards are, but the hit rate(and importance) is much higher in the first few. Good WRs usually don't fall to the middle rounds. Good TEs can though. Good dlinmen can be found anywhere, but good offensive linemen are usually taken earlier than later.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule(including generational talents. I'm sorry but I take Saquon in the top 5 10/10 times). But we need to evaluate.... well value lol. I think Hayden Hurst is going to be a good player and it's not like he's been total ass either. He flashes his abilities. But a Willie Hernandez would have been so much more beneficial to Lamar now, and moving forward. Especially since we got Andrews later and he looks like a guy who is going to make a pro bowler one day.
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i said this in the buildup to 2018 draft - position groups like WR are getting picked higher because their impact is different - what would be considered a reach should really be changed because of the different value the position has - the way some people grade certain positions needs to adjust for positional value - that includes analysts as well as some front offices
 
RL52TheGreatest said:
Hurst actually caught a pass yesterday. Progress!
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Oh I don’t say this because of Hurst. I just see a league-wide trend with the position and I think it’s time to adjust. Just in case it wasn’t clear and people think I’m hating on him. Not saying you are either btw. I’d rather spend those early picks on guys who will contribute immediately and not years from now. Like Andrews and others have shown, you can find TE that are quality in the 3rd and beyond.

Lost_In_Translation said:
I think our FO needs to do a better job associating which positions should be drafted at what round. A big reason why we are knee deep in the shitter is because we address the offense in the later rounds and the defense in the earlier rounds. The reality is, while I do get the value of a Marlon Humphrey, good corners are found in every round. Our own Tavon Young is a good example of that. Good guards are, but the hit rate(and importance) is much higher in the first few. Good WRs usually don't fall to the middle rounds. Good TEs can though. Good dlinmen can be found anywhere, but good offensive linemen are usually taken earlier than later.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule(including generational talents. I'm sorry but I take Saquon in the top 5 10/10 times). But we need to evaluate.... well value lol. I think Hayden Hurst is going to be a good player and it's not like he's been total ass either. He flashes his abilities. But a Willie Hernandez would have been so much more beneficial to Lamar now, and moving forward. Especially since we got Andrews later and he looks like a guy who is going to make a pro bowler one day.
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I think that there are some positions you can just wait to draft unless they’re a clearly generational talent. I’d put TE, RB in that group as well as ILB. I also think you need to consider how successful you are drafting certain groups versus others and adjust as well. If you have proven to be very good at drafting DL, like we have, then why spend your picks on a guy in the first 3?

I think we actually do a good job scouting OL. How can you say we don’t if we get guys like Hurst undrafted, Jensen in the 6th, Brown Jr in the 3rd, Stanley over Tunsil, Yanda in the 3rd and KO in the 2nd? These are many examples of successful picks. I don’t think we chose Hurst because we don’t value OL but I think it’s because we thought either too highly of what we had or our depth or both and also felt we could compensate. Our OL was good last year and we only lost one piece so I can understand where we reached the conclusion.

rossihunter2 said:
i said this in the buildup to 2018 draft - position groups like WR are getting picked higher because their impact is different - what would be considered a reach should really be changed because of the different value the position has - the way some people grade certain positions needs to adjust for positional value - that includes analysts as well as some front offices
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We need to refocus how we build our board. No need to get a TE in the first ever again. Nothing against Hurst I just feel like the position group doesn’t give enough immediate juice to make the squeeze worth it
 
Grim said:
We need to refocus how we build our board. No need to get a TE in the first ever again. Nothing against Hurst I just feel like the position group doesn’t give enough immediate juice to make the squeeze worth it
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it doesnt need to be that drastic - there's no need for ultimatums and vetoes and rigid rules

and our top 3 receivers vs the Bucs were Snead, Andrews and Hurst in yards and receptions...

i understand what you mean and the front office absolutely needs to reevaluate certain things but decreasing flexibility can only be a bad thing
 
Grim said:
Oh I don’t say this because of Hurst. I just see a league-wide trend with the position and I think it’s time to adjust. Just in case it wasn’t clear and people think I’m hating on him. Not saying you are either btw. I’d rather spend those early picks on guys who will contribute immediately and not years from now. Like Andrews and others have shown, you can find TE that are quality in the 3rd and beyond.
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I'm with you on that; we should absolutely be drafting players in the first round that can contribute immediately and TEs, as a general rule, don't produce great numbers in their first year. That being said, I actually do think Hurst was ready to be a major factor this season, but the injury set him back and the coaching staff still hasn't figured out a great way to get him more involved in the passing game.
 
rossihunter2 said:
it doesnt need to be that drastic - there's no need for ultimatums and vetoes and rigid rules

and our top 3 receivers vs the Bucs were Snead, Andrews and Hurst in yards and receptions...

i understand what you mean and the front office absolutely needs to reevaluate certain things but decreasing flexibility can only be a bad thing
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There will always be outliers but I think, generally speaking, TE and RB should be avoided in the 1st barring a transcendent player. TE just rarely contribute so unless you are 100% sure the guy will immediately contribute I just don’t personally value the position in the first round anymore.

RL52TheGreatest said:
I'm with you on that; we should absolutely be drafting players in the first round that can contribute immediately and TEs, as a general rule, don't produce great numbers in their first year. That being said, I actually do think Hurst was ready to be a major factor this season, but the injury set him back and the coaching staff still hasn't figured out a great way to get him more involved in the passing game.
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I don’t dislike Hurst. I’d rather have had other players but he’s not a bad player. I just don’t see the value at the position to make them first round picks anymore is all. I thought Hurst would contribute a lot more honestly because he was older and further along than most TE so I’d agree that the injury set him back.
 
Grim said:
There will always be outliers but I think, generally speaking, TE and RB should be avoided in the 1st barring a transcendent player. TE just rarely contribute so unless you are 100% sure the guy will immediately contribute I just don’t personally value the position in the first round anymore.


I don’t dislike Hurst. I’d rather have had other players but he’s not a bad player. I just don’t see the value at the position to make them first round picks anymore is all. I thought Hurst would contribute a lot more honestly because he was older and further along than most TE so I’d agree that the injury set him back.
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Hurst shouldve never been drafted by us in the 1st rnd..
 
Edgar said:
What's going on with Tim Williams? Is he hurt?
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No he's healthy, but according to Harbaugh you have to be one of the best 46 to be active on game day. T-Williams has to be slacking in practice, there is no reason to not play him. He would've been the speed rusher we needed because the bucs OTs had problems all season long with speed rushers.
 
cdp said:
No he's healthy, but according to Harbaugh you have to be one of the best 46 to be active on game day. T-Williams has to be slacking in practice, there is no reason to not play him. He would've been the speed rusher we needed because the bucs OTs had problems all season long with speed rushers.
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i have to think it was a gameplan thing because the rain and weather would naturally slow down a pass rush so speed rushers can be neutralised more easily than in other situations - and maybe with that taken into account they figured they could rest him 1 more week with extra recovery etc.

that's my hope because he's being left out for tyus who's not really contributing
 
JO_75 said:
How many teams are we competing against here in the offseason if we fire Harbs? I imagine we still have the best offer a new HC is looking for. Job security, already secured the franchise QB in Lamar, and job security to be able to put together his team in his image.
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I’m pretty sure it’s the rule of 7, usually 7 coaches get fired a year.

Kooter from the Bucs, Steve Wilks, and Vance Joseph are almost locks. Browns and panthers both will look. Todd Bowles is likely and id say so is Marvin Lewis. River boat ron is being talked on espically because of the collapse and a new owner.
Doug from the jags is a possible and I guess Gase could get the boot
 
rossihunter2 said:
i have to think it was a gameplan thing because the rain and weather would naturally slow down a pass rush so speed rushers can be neutralised more easily than in other situations - and maybe with that taken into account they figured they could rest him 1 more week with extra recovery etc.

that's my hope because he's being left out for tyus who's not really contributing
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That’s just a ridiculous speculation I think though...especially now that he’s a solid run defender. He’s gotta be in the doghouse. Either that or he’s still somehow not in gameshape from the injury
 
DeVito52 said:
That’s just a ridiculous speculation I think though...especially now that he’s a solid run defender. He’s gotta be in the doghouse. Either that or he’s still somehow not in gameshape from the injury
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Yep. Or it's the same curious case of Hurst being better than Zeus, Collins than Edwards or Joe than Lamar, even though it was evident neither of those is at the time.
 
allblackraven said:
Yep. Or it's the same curious case of Hurst being better than Zeus, Collins than Edwards or Joe than Lamar, even though it was evident neither of those is at the time.
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I’ll give you Brown but Edwards and Lamar? Would you have started Lamar Jackson week 1 vs BUF? I liked Edwards quite a bit but starting both seems like a stretch. I can understand starting Collins and Joe but not Brown. Everyone knew he was better than Hurst at RT.
 
Grim said:
I’ll give you Brown but Edwards and Lamar? Would you have started Lamar Jackson week 1 vs BUF? I liked Edwards quite a bit but starting both seems like a stretch. I can understand starting Collins and Joe but not Brown. Everyone knew he was better than Hurst at RT.
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I was harping on Collins from day 1 and got ridiculed until he was benched for being injured, not for lousy play.
I wanted Lamar not from week 1 but as soon as we saw another hot / cold Joe's season is on - no point at that stage to wait any longer. If we made that change sooner, we'd have WC game with home advantage.
 
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