K-Dog
MVP
Brilliant
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The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
- Start date
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
every team would be forced to stand for the applause and cry tears of joy. Problem solved: Controversy over.
K-Dog
MVP
Which is the problem exactly. Some ( many, most? ) are so caught up in the method that the reasoning is completely lost which as I said a few times not is a real shame. You will never change a thing if I insult something dear to you. Weather it has anything to do with it or not is completely beside the point. Disrespect breeds apathy not empathy. Like it or not, kneeling for the National Anthem is *perceived * as disrespect. Right or wrong, true or false it is perceived as such and you can do a thing about someone else's perception.
As my Mom says, " It is not what you say it is what people hear that matters. "
A lot of people are hearing something that is not being said and as a result, they are not hearing what needs to be said.
I doubt I can, nor do I care to. I was offering other ideas that would not piss off a significant amount of the population ( many of whom need to hear the message.
Since you brought it up , how many times do you recall true and lasting change coming through the means of pissing someone off?
As anyone ever pissed you off so much you completely changed your point of view on a social issue?
Politics can not end racism.,
Laws can not end racism.
Protests can not end racism.
Racism is a heart condition. Racism is a way of thinking.
You can only change hearts and minds on an individual level, you can force it. You can't do it globally.
This ( again ) is why these protests bother me. It is demeaning the issue.
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
First, I totally respect your thoughts and views on this.
Second, you asked me had I ever seen true and lasting change coming through the means of "pissing people off?" Of course I have. I was born in the 60's. You know, the "Civil Rights" era. Look at these images from then:
Because of the fearless and courageous young people (Black and White-Together) like these who staged "Sit Ins" protesting racial inequality in reference to food service back in the 60's; in 2017, we can all sit in a restaurant and enjoy a meal together regardless of the color of our skins. I'm pretty sure that the crowds around them in the pic and most of the racists during that time were "pissed off" by their protest. Cause protest isn't meant to be a vehicle of appeasing the masses. Protest is meant to go against the grain or the status quo in a society in order to bring awareness to some form of social or racial injustice in hopes that it would start the process for change for the betterment and benefit of ALL people!
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BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Respect Mili. Im too jaded to go in these days
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
K-Dog
MVP
But it would seem that is not "true and lasting ".
If it were we would not be having this conversation.
Yes after those events blacks did gain more rights, as they should. But none of this current stuff is about rights it is about treatment. There is a difference. At this moment blacks have every right whites do.
If it were we would not be having this conversation.
Yes after those events blacks did gain more rights, as they should. But none of this current stuff is about rights it is about treatment. There is a difference. At this moment blacks have every right whites do.
Be honest- do you watch every single commercial? I know for myself personally, commercial breaks are the time for me to check the boards and my phone. I also get food or drinks, maybe even flip the channel until the break is over.
You're reaching MANY more people by doing it during the Anthem because it gets everyone talking.
He said he fully supported the rights of the players to kneel, but he couldn't take the fan backlash toward the players and the booing at the games.
But it's this started about police treatment and racial inequality (i.e. the way black are treated) toward blacks, so...?
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
Let's run with this statement of yours then.
Since blacks have every "right" that whites do; then that means; it is the "RIGHT" of these athletes (mostly the black ones)...who also happen to be American Citizens...to exercise their 1st Amendment right to either stand or kneel for the National Anthem. Right?
And, "IF" it is their right; why are so many people as you say; "pissed off by it?" Got to be something else behind that! Cause, if this was really about "disrespecting" the National Anthem or the Flag....how come at these sporting events...even at M&T Bank Stadium....that they don't shut down the concession stands or merchandising areas when the National Anthem is being played?
I want to bring this up and hopefully it is seen and someone can honestly answer this question for me.
In life, kneeling is the pretty consensual sign of respect and submission.
If I kneel to the Queen of England, I show her respect. If I kneel to propose to my girlfriend, I am showing submission and my desire to serve her for the rest of her life. If I kneel to pray, I am showing submission and respect for God. If I kneel down against a foe, I am showing surrender and submission. In the NFL, taking a kneel is a sign of giving up a play.
Why when it is used to bring attention to racial inequality is it viewed as disrespectful? Be honest- if these players knelt to protest the high concession, ticket, and product (jerseys, hats, shirts) prices, you'd love it. But you don't care that they kneel- you care that it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable. As a white person, do you feel left out? Like, damn, they're protesting for blacks and they must protest for my equal treatment because all lives matter!
Really, I want to know. Kneeling has NEVER been viewed as disrespectful until this very moment.
If I had knelt before for the Anthem and said it showed a sign of respect for the country and I was showing that the country was greater than myself, no one would bat an eye and say I'm being disrespectful. In fact, I bet I could get people to join me.
Be honest- it's more about the cause that they're protesting than it is about the timing of the kneeling. They could have talked about this in post game interviews after every single game and you'd get upset that politics entered sports.
In life, kneeling is the pretty consensual sign of respect and submission.
If I kneel to the Queen of England, I show her respect. If I kneel to propose to my girlfriend, I am showing submission and my desire to serve her for the rest of her life. If I kneel to pray, I am showing submission and respect for God. If I kneel down against a foe, I am showing surrender and submission. In the NFL, taking a kneel is a sign of giving up a play.
Why when it is used to bring attention to racial inequality is it viewed as disrespectful? Be honest- if these players knelt to protest the high concession, ticket, and product (jerseys, hats, shirts) prices, you'd love it. But you don't care that they kneel- you care that it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable. As a white person, do you feel left out? Like, damn, they're protesting for blacks and they must protest for my equal treatment because all lives matter!
Really, I want to know. Kneeling has NEVER been viewed as disrespectful until this very moment.
If I had knelt before for the Anthem and said it showed a sign of respect for the country and I was showing that the country was greater than myself, no one would bat an eye and say I'm being disrespectful. In fact, I bet I could get people to join me.
Be honest- it's more about the cause that they're protesting than it is about the timing of the kneeling. They could have talked about this in post game interviews after every single game and you'd get upset that politics entered sports.
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
And the irony of that is just like it was his right to quit for whatever reasons; so it is the rights of these players to kneel.
This is America-a Democracy not a Dictatorship!
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
Players protesting for equality for all is the reason the NFL may implode.
Let that sink in for a moment.
To best honest I'm so unsure what stance to take on the kneeling. Part of me wishes it could be done in another way that doesn't seem to cause tension, while another part me of understands it is the best way to get noticed. Honestly though, I like football because it takes me away from everything else. It wasn't fun waking up at 6 am last week to listen to politics. But then again, people talking of it is the point, and it should not be swept under the rug. Certainly an issue must be solved, but I pray politics do not take over every aspect of our entire lives. I hate seeing a divide between everyone based off it, ranging from my friends to you forum members. We are Ravens fans and united in that way, it would be a shame for us to be separated and filled with hate. The one thing I am sure on; I want our team to be united. It pained me to see half of the team on their knees and half standing and locked arms, separated. I don't think it helped that we lost by 37 points. As much as I hate Jerry Jones, I love how he handled it. The players were able to get the point across, the armed services were not disrupted, and the players stay united. I really hope this can all be resolved, but unfortunately it looks to be just the start.
Missing Anquan
Practice Squad
People that are upset by this protest really need to be introspective and honest about what they find.
The images of sit-ins above show so many angry faces behind the protesters but today, black people eating in a restaurant with white people isn't the least (or god help you if it is) offensive. The folks getting upset are on the wrong side of history and I can only blame their impairment on a lack of education (I don't mean formal, I mean lack of intellectual curiosity about our nation's rights, history, purpose and desired future).
The flag has become a crystal ball. I see the military, no wait...first responders...no wait...Elvis Presley.
Well I live in the best country on earth and the supreme court decided, via Texas v. Johnson, that citizens of this great nation can burn the flag. It is covered by the 1st amendment of the constitution and allowing this act only validates the beauty of our country. Without the right to be self-critical, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of so many fallen civilizations or current unsuccessful regimes (Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc.).
The constitution should be every citizen's bible, not the actual bible. And when you vote, you vote to make your fellow american more free, not yourself.
These protests are the definition of patriotism and so too is the fiery discourse. Let's embrace the conflict and keep the conversation alive. Ultimately, as long as we're all adult enough to sit at the table and talk, solutions will arise, it's the American way (or at least it used to be).
The images of sit-ins above show so many angry faces behind the protesters but today, black people eating in a restaurant with white people isn't the least (or god help you if it is) offensive. The folks getting upset are on the wrong side of history and I can only blame their impairment on a lack of education (I don't mean formal, I mean lack of intellectual curiosity about our nation's rights, history, purpose and desired future).
The flag has become a crystal ball. I see the military, no wait...first responders...no wait...Elvis Presley.
Well I live in the best country on earth and the supreme court decided, via Texas v. Johnson, that citizens of this great nation can burn the flag. It is covered by the 1st amendment of the constitution and allowing this act only validates the beauty of our country. Without the right to be self-critical, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of so many fallen civilizations or current unsuccessful regimes (Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc.).
The constitution should be every citizen's bible, not the actual bible. And when you vote, you vote to make your fellow american more free, not yourself.
These protests are the definition of patriotism and so too is the fiery discourse. Let's embrace the conflict and keep the conversation alive. Ultimately, as long as we're all adult enough to sit at the table and talk, solutions will arise, it's the American way (or at least it used to be).
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
Its almost like people think the players are kneeling because they hate America
Honestly I thought about that too. I don't really feel that kneeling for the anthem is all that disrespectful. But then there are the players who just sit during it. Fuck them
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Compared to quite a few other players, Brooks never got a fair shake from Harbaugh/Ozzie.