The Random Thought Thread

[DeVito52]

Here's something that as a non American I'd really like to know. Before the protest, did everyone listened to the anthem and stood while listening to it (not just at the stadium but at home or wherever they saw it sang)? I really don't know and that would help me get a better view of the mindset just to have a more precise opinion on it.

I can't say ive ever stood up at home for the anthem.

 

[K-Dog]

I already said it there highlighted in yellow but i just added the parenthesis to clarify it.

Yeah, don't mind me. I am half blind.

 

[K-Dog]

I can't say ive ever stood up at home for the anthem.

My buddy Phil did at a Super Bowl party a few years ago.
I have mostly done it since.

 

[Rav'n Maniac]

Here's something that as a non American I'd really like to know. Before the protest, did everyone listened to the anthem and stood while listening to it (not just at the stadium but at home or wherever they saw it sang)? I really don't know and that would help me get a better view of the mindset just to have a more precise opinion on it.

The only times I stand up during a game is when something exciting happens or I have to drain the beer. I do play the national anthem in my mind while I relieve myself. Does that count?

 

[Sooky]

I don't care what side you're on with the anthem protests. But I will not listen to either side of the conversation unless the other mentions or talks about how to come to a solution. If you are defending the anthem you need to talk about why those who are protesting are protesting and talk about potential ways to change it (it won't be overnight). If you are pro-protesting then you need to talk about how the anthem is not the best time to protest because it upsets some people's beliefs, and attempt to find other avenues to protest non-violently that others will see so change occurs.

Those who just say people should be fired for kneeling during the anthem, you are not adding anything of value to this conversation today. Those who are protesting just to protest (yes there are some of you), you are not adding anything to this conversation. I think a huge reason why people are so upset still is the message is vague and needs to be narrowed down by those who want the change. A lot of people, like myself, live in highly Caucasian areas and do not witness racism as much and so they have a harder time understanding that there are still things happening today that need to be changed. A lot of these players come from poor backgrounds of bigger city with high crime rates and are influenced more by this.

If you don't keep open minded to either side I do not value your opinion. Some will always be ignorant and will never accept that there are good points from the other side.

 

[DeVito52]

My buddy Phil did at a Super Bowl party a few years ago.
I have mostly done it since.

It's not even that I'm like "heh I realize what's going on but I'm gonna sit here just to spite our country". I just genuinely don't ever think to stand because I'm in my own house

 

[K-Dog]

It's not even that I'm like "heh I realize what's going on but I'm gonna sit here just to spite our country". I just genuinely don't ever think to stand because I'm in my own house

Yeah. I mean we don't shout "O!!" Either.
Do we yell "Defense! Defense! Defense!"?
The Seven Nation Army chant?

I get it. Home is different. Moreso if you don't have a flag to look at.

 

[Militant X 1]

I've said all that I felt that I needed to say in reference to these players (American Citizens) exercising their 1st Amendment Rights to either stand or to kneel during the National Anthem. So this is my last comment about it.

As a former military man, with family members (son and brother) presently serving in the military; we are not offended whatsoever by their protest nor do we feel that they are "disrespecting" the flag as the media and political propaganda want the masses to believe. Our approach as a family is simply this; if others are offended by the protests, that is their right to be. And, if others (such as we) are not offended, that is our right not to be. That's democracy being demonstrated at its finest!

So, my wife and I will be driving up to Baltimore from my daughter's home here in Maryland in the morning. We will check into our hotel and walk the Inner Harbor, do a little shopping, enjoy those damn good crab cakes, and then attend Sunday's game to watch the RAVENS vs the Steelers on Sunday. We don't know what the players will do, whether they will stand or kneel when the Anthem is played. However, we are both excited to witness the experience live and in living color for ourselves.

NOW...it is time for some football!

GO RAVENS!!

 

[RavensMania]

I've said all that I felt that I needed to say in reference to these players (American Citizens) exercising their 1st Amendment Rights to either stand or to kneel during the National Anthem. So this is my last comment about it.

As a former military man, with family members (son and brother) presently serving in the military; we are not offended whatsoever by their protest nor do we feel that they are "disrespecting" the flag as the media and political propaganda want the masses to believe. Our approach as a family is simply this; if others are offended by the protests, that is their right to be. And, if others (such as we) are not offended, that is our right not to be. That's democracy being demonstrated at its finest!

So, my wife and I will be driving up to Baltimore from my daughter's home here in Maryland in the morning. We will check into our hotel and walk the Inner Harbor, do a little shopping, enjoy those damn good crab cakes, and then attend Sunday's game to watch the RAVENS vs the Steelers on Sunday. We don't know what the players will do, whether they will stand or kneel when the Anthem is played. However, we are both excited to witness the experience live and in living color for ourselves.

NOW...it is time for some football!

GO RAVENS!!

Amen

 

[BloodRaven]

Perspective and context seem to be missing from the national lexicon these days, thats one reason why I detest political "discussions" but at some point I knew I would be sucked into it.

First is perspective, why did Kaep protest? allegedly he didn't feel right after a recent spate of police violence against black men, but what do two, three even 10 or 20 instances mean what in a country of 45 million black people? what about when white people are killed by cops, how does that affect Kaeps narrative? Obviously there is an issue with bad cops and probably racist ones but how many bad cops are there out of over 1 million? for every video that goes viral how many interactions are not acknowledged because there was a peaceful resolution? 50 thousand? 500 thousand? millions? then how much leeway should we give for human error in regards to execution and recruitment? and most importantly why are these questions never asked, is it because you need to divide the country to sell narratives? actually that last one is rhetorical.

That brings me to context, why are we so mad about athletes "disrespecting the flag" or "disrespecting the troops" etc etc when we only started asking players to stand since 2009? previously they would be sitting at their lockers... does this mean teams been disrespecting the flag and troops for 90 years??? ...rhetorical question. False context such as red herrings (troops, flag etc) doesn't help either but as long as both sides are stoking fires and selling their narratives the left will never believe they have reached equality and the right will never concede that it we're not there yet. The other issue with context is how unreliable Kaep is as a figurehead and how poorly this has all been executed, sure there is a racism problem in the US but again, relative to what? a few dozen Neo Nazis? we are a progressive, multicultural melting pot but you wouldn't know that watching CNN or Fox.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[allblackraven]

https://twitter.com/usairforce/status/913541082637578240

 

[cobrajet]

I want to bring this up and hopefully it is seen and someone can honestly answer this question for me.

In life, kneeling is the pretty consensual sign of respect and submission.

If I kneel to the Queen of England, I show her respect. If I kneel to propose to my girlfriend, I am showing submission and my desire to serve her for the rest of her life. If I kneel to pray, I am showing submission and respect for God. If I kneel down against a foe, I am showing surrender and submission. In the NFL, taking a kneel is a sign of giving up a play.

Why when it is used to bring attention to racial inequality is it viewed as disrespectful? Be honest- if these players knelt to protest the high concession, ticket, and product (jerseys, hats, shirts) prices, you'd love it. But you don't care that they kneel- you care that it's a topic that makes you uncomfortable. As a white person, do you feel left out? Like, damn, they're protesting for blacks and they must protest for my equal treatment because all lives matter!

Really, I want to know. Kneeling has NEVER been viewed as disrespectful until this very moment.

If I had knelt before for the Anthem and said it showed a sign of respect for the country and I was showing that the country was greater than myself, no one would bat an eye and say I'm being disrespectful. In fact, I bet I could get people to join me.

Be honest- it's more about the cause that they're protesting than it is about the timing of the kneeling. They could have talked about this in post game interviews after every single game and you'd get upset that politics entered sports.

I am just playing devil's advocate. I don't think kneeling is a big deal. I think it is more about tradition and what you are taught. In England you are taught from early age that you bow and kneel to the Queen. In America, you are taught from an early age that when the National Anthem is played, you stop what you are doing, get up from your seat, face the flag, take your hat off if you are wearing one, and put your right hand over your heart. If you are wearing a military uniform, a police uniform, a Salvation Army uniform, or a Boy Scout uniform then you come to attention and salute the flag. I remember as a young kid my neighbor took me to an Orioles game and this white couple, who were Boston Red Sox fans were talking and did not do what I just described when the national anthem was played. My neighbor got on them so bad this couple ended up leaving. It is a big deal if you don't follow tradition for many people in America, just like if I went to England in my police uniform and decided to show respect to the Queen by coming to full attention and saluting her instead of kneeling. It makes a difference to those traditionalists, even if they support equal treatment for minorities, and it upsets them. I am sure these tradionalists will be upset that players are standing and linking arms instead of putting their hands over their heart. These traditionalists are the one's that got a rap on their noggins by their father, if they did not shut up, stand up, take off a hat, or put a hand over their heart as a child. Women have equal rights, but to this day, I will wait and hold the door for a female even if she is 45 seconds behind me, because that is how I was raised. It matters to many people.

 

[cobrajet]

People that are upset by this protest really need to be introspective and honest about what they find.

The images of sit-ins above show so many angry faces behind the protesters but today, black people eating in a restaurant with white people isn't the least (or god help you if it is) offensive. The folks getting upset are on the wrong side of history and I can only blame their impairment on a lack of education (I don't mean formal, I mean lack of intellectual curiosity about our nation's rights, history, purpose and desired future).

The flag has become a crystal ball. I see the military, no wait...first responders...no wait...Elvis Presley.

Well I live in the best country on earth and the supreme court decided, via Texas v. Johnson, that citizens of this great nation can burn the flag. It is covered by the 1st amendment of the constitution and allowing this act only validates the beauty of our country. Without the right to be self-critical, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of so many fallen civilizations or current unsuccessful regimes (Russia, North Korea, Cuba, etc.).

The constitution should be every citizen's bible, not the actual bible. And when you vote, you vote to make your fellow american more free, not yourself.

These protests are the definition of patriotism and so too is the fiery discourse. Let's embrace the conflict and keep the conversation alive. Ultimately, as long as we're all adult enough to sit at the table and talk, solutions will arise, it's the American way (or at least it used to be).

I hear what you are saying, maybe it is a good thing that the citizens of this great nation can burn the flag, but that does not change the fact that a Marine that lost his buddy in combat or that hero's wife, who was given the flag draped over his coffin can help getting their feelings hurt by it. For, me showing respect makes all the difference in the world, it was how I was raised and it is drummed into me very deep. I just can't turn off those feelings at this point in my life when I see someone burning the American flag. I am trying to take a step back and understand it better, but it is not easy. Burning the flag is a big one for me, as that flag was draped over the coffins of my murdered police officer friends and I stood in reverence at their funeral. I believe, out of respect, sometimes in life "you just don't go there." These jerk neo-nazi's may have the right under the first amendment to say certain racist words, but that don't make it right. It is disrespectful and if they were decent citizens, they would never "go there."

 

[K-Dog]

Perspective and context seem to be missing from the national lexicon these days, thats one reason why I detest political "discussions" but at some point I knew I would be sucked into it.

First is perspective, why did Kaep protest? allegedly he didn't feel right after a recent spate of police violence against black men, but what do two, three even 10 or 20 instances mean what in a country of 45 million black people? what about when white people are killed by cops, how does that affect Kaeps narrative? Obviously there is an issue with bad cops and probably racist ones but how many bad cops are there out of over 1 million? for every video that goes viral how many interactions are not acknowledged because there was a peaceful resolution? 50 thousand? 500 thousand? millions? then how much leeway should we give for human error in regards to execution and recruitment? and most importantly why are these questions never asked, is it because you need to divide the country to sell narratives? actually that last one is rhetorical.

That brings me to context, why are we so mad about athletes "disrespecting the flag" or "disrespecting the troops" etc etc when we only started asking players to stand since 2009? previously they would be sitting at their lockers... does this mean teams been disrespecting the flag and troops for 90 years??? ...rhetorical question. False context such as red herrings (troops, flag etc) doesn't help either but as long as both sides are stoking fires and selling their narratives the left will never believe they have reached equality and the right will never concede that it we're not there yet. The other issue with context is how unreliable Kaep is as a figurehead and how poorly this has all been executed, sure there is a racism problem in the US but again, relative to what? a few dozen Neo Nazis? we are a progressive, multicultural melting pot but you wouldn't know that watching CNN or Fox.

I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for joining in with a spot on post.

 

[rossihunter2]

It's a great concept which i'm sure works very well in Great Britain. Unfortunately the right to bear arms is the 2nd amendment of our original constitution. The NRA (national rifle association) with fat pockets continuously lobbies in Washington to ensure it's never changed.

I mean it's literally called an amendment lol

 

[Willbacker]

I've said all that I felt that I needed to say in reference to these players (American Citizens) exercising their 1st Amendment Rights to either stand or to kneel during the National Anthem. So this is my last comment about it.

As a former military man, with family members (son and brother) presently serving in the military; we are not offended whatsoever by their protest nor do we feel that they are "disrespecting" the flag as the media and political propaganda want the masses to believe. Our approach as a family is simply this; if others are offended by the protests, that is their right to be. And, if others (such as we) are not offended, that is our right not to be. That's democracy being demonstrated at its finest!

So, my wife and I will be driving up to Baltimore from my daughter's home here in Maryland in the morning. We will check into our hotel and walk the Inner Harbor, do a little shopping, enjoy those damn good crab cakes, and then attend Sunday's game to watch the RAVENS vs the Steelers on Sunday. We don't know what the players will do, whether they will stand or kneel when the Anthem is played. However, we are both excited to witness the experience live and in living color for ourselves.

NOW...it is time for some football!

GO RAVENS!!

Hey as long as the flag isn't being curb stomped or skull dragged..............

 

[Rav'n Maniac]

I mean it's literally called an amendment lol

Yes, it is. What I have always found a bit ironic about our constitution is the 1st amendment is the freedom of speech bill with the 2nd amendment being the right to bear arms bill. So in 1787, you have the right to say what you want but the guy listening to you may have a gun and could shoot you for it.

 

[cobrajet]

Yes, it is. What I have always found a bit ironic about our constitution is the 1st amendment is the freedom of speech bill with the 2nd amendment being the right to bear arms bill. So in 1787, you have the right to say what you want but the guy listening to you may have a gun and could shoot you for it.

I guess they had to watch what they said back then. Probably back in the Wild West days also when many men carried six shooters.

 

[cobrajet]

I mean it's literally called an amendment lol

I know some say it is a living breathing document. I never agreed with that, imho It should stay as our fore fathers intended it.

 

[cobrajet]

Every time those St. Jude's Hospital commercials come on and I see those poor kids going through those cancer treatments, I get a lump in my throat. It makes me realize what is really important in life.