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Future Ravens in the HOF

Truth

Staff Member
Administrator
My thing is, Yanda has amazing praise and he for sure deserves it more than any player on the team in my opinion. Over a decade, you can consider him the best guard for more than half of those years. He has a ring which helps, plus so far 6 pro bowls (in a row) and 5 all pros. He is only 32 so I think he has atleast 3 more great seasons in store and maybe one decent one. I believe he might wait a while but will get in with 10 years. To be honest, I really don't see Suggs getting in the Hall as much as I love him. He was an amazing player, but his low amount of sacks won't help. Look at the guys who will go in around the same time as him; Jared Allen, Peppers, Mathis, Ware, Abraham, Freeny, all have more sacks then him. It will sure be tough and maybe far down the road, but i don't think soon. Now Tucker, if he can keep it up I think he retires as the GOAT. You have to put a guy like him and Adam V in the hall, they changed the game at a position. Tucker is a weapon as a kicker, not just a roster spot. He can end teams from half way across the field. I think that will put him over the top.
Agreed on Yanda, and Tucker's potential should he continue the trend, which we have no reason to believe otherwise. That being said, I personally feel that Suggs has a chance to be enshrined eventually. Peppers and Ware are both arguably locks. You'd expect Allen and Abraham to be well in contention, same goes for the Colts former duo (Abraham, in my eyes, is one of the most unheralded edge rushers of his era). That being said, I doubt that the discussion between them all is boiled down solely to just the sacks totals. If that's the discussion, Freeney wouldn't be placed over Suggs as he has a season on the latter and both average basically an identical number per year. Granted that Freeny had more in his prime, but the discussion itself is beside the point as the sack figure is a shallow basis on its own. The Colts patterned their personnel specifically to complement the Peyton Manning-led quick-strike offense. That meant Gary Brackett in the middle of Tampa 2-Cover 2 shells, Kelvin Hayden and Marlon Jackson sitting on short routes, and the Freeny-Mathis duo consistently having chances to tee off on opposing QBs while being liabilities in the running game partly as a byproduct of their roles. That's not meant as a knock on their talents. I thought Mathis was remarkable in his 2013 season, and that was under an odd-front scheme and a different team composition altogether. Freeny will forever be remembered for his almost unstoppable spin move aside from being a dominant rusher. But the opportunities were more plentiful.

Suggs spent most of his career as a counterpart of an average-scoring, run-based offense attempting to control the ToP. On the flip side, aside from obviously Peppers, he's arguably the best multi-faceted defender on that list. He was an outright dominant run defender for the better part of his career, and capable in coverage as well with how well he read his cues. Granted, the same argument used above should apply for the sake of objectivity. It needs to be mentioned that he played alongside of outstanding run defenders such as Ray Lewis, Jarret Johnson, Haloti Ngata, etc. The defense was built to defend the run. But as above, it's not an indictment on talent given that he was one of our best run defenders after the departure of the players listed. That being said, the sacks totals themselves aren't a ways away. He's currently 21st all-time and could very well jump into the Top 20 this season, as 8.5 sacks would tie him with the inactive Mathis at 17. And if we're looking solely at those figures, then his playoff performances shouldn't be discounted. He's currently 3rd all-time in playoff sacks, behind Bruce Smith and in front of Reggie White. Again, the number is helped by the opportunities given he's played 17 games, but he's ahead of Freeney who's played 22 (Smith and White played 20 and 19 for reference sake). It helps that he's the only player on the list above to have earned the AP DPoY award aside from the chip. I'm not making case for Suggs' HoF induction, nor am I presenting him as the best player of the ones mentioned above. I would presume that most have Peppers on top of their boards, and Suggs could potentially end up on the outside looking in like Leslie O'Neal, though the latter example is a potential indictment of utilizing sack numbers as the barometer given that O'Neal is 13th all-time. I'm just making the case that if we're throwing out the names of Freeney, Mathis, Allen, Abraham, etc. as players meriting consideration, then it's only fair to include Suggs in their conversation.
 

purplepittabread88

Staff Member
Administrator
Agreed on Yanda, and Tucker's potential should he continue the trend, which we have no reason to believe otherwise. That being said, I personally feel that Suggs has a chance to be enshrined eventually. Peppers and Ware are both arguably locks. You'd expect Allen and Abraham to be well in contention, same goes for the Colts former duo (Abraham, in my eyes, is one of the most unheralded edge rushers of his era). That being said, I doubt that the discussion between them all is boiled down solely to just the sacks totals. If that's the discussion, Freeney wouldn't be placed over Suggs as he has a season on the latter and both average basically an identical number per year. Granted that Freeny had more in his prime, but the discussion itself is beside the point as the sack figure is a shallow basis on its own. The Colts patterned their personnel specifically to complement the Peyton Manning-led quick-strike offense. That meant Gary Brackett in the middle of Tampa 2-Cover 2 shells, Kelvin Hayden and Marlon Jackson sitting on short routes, and the Freeny-Mathis duo consistently having chances to tee off on opposing QBs while being liabilities in the running game partly as a byproduct of their roles. That's not meant as a knock on their talents. I thought Mathis was remarkable in his 2013 season, and that was under an odd-front scheme and a different team composition altogether. Freeny will forever be remembered for his almost unstoppable spin move aside from being a dominant rusher. But the opportunities were more plentiful.

Suggs spent most of his career as a counterpart of an average-scoring, run-based offense attempting to control the ToP. On the flip side, aside from obviously Peppers, he's arguably the best multi-faceted defender on that list. He was an outright dominant run defender for the better part of his career, and capable in coverage as well with how well he read his cues. Granted, the same argument used above should apply for the sake of objectivity. It needs to be mentioned that he played alongside of outstanding run defenders such as Ray Lewis, Jarret Johnson, Haloti Ngata, etc. The defense was built to defend the run. But as above, it's not an indictment on talent given that he was one of our best run defenders after the departure of the players listed. That being said, the sacks totals themselves aren't a ways away. He's currently 21st all-time and could very well jump into the Top 20 this season, as 8.5 sacks would tie him with the inactive Mathis at 17. And if we're looking solely at those figures, then his playoff performances shouldn't be discounted. He's currently 3rd all-time in playoff sacks, behind Bruce Smith and in front of Reggie White. Again, the number is helped by the opportunities given he's played 17 games, but he's ahead of Freeney who's played 22 (Smith and White played 20 and 19 for reference sake). It helps that he's the only player on the list above to have earned the AP DPoY award aside from the chip. I'm not making case for Suggs' HoF induction, nor am I presenting him as the best player of the ones mentioned above. I would presume that most have Peppers on top of their boards, and Suggs could potentially end up on the outside looking in like Leslie O'Neal, though the latter example is a potential indictment of utilizing sack numbers as the barometer given that O'Neal is 13th all-time. I'm just making the case that if we're throwing out the names of Freeney, Mathis, Allen, Abraham, etc. as players meriting consideration, then it's only fair to include Suggs in their conversation.
Your argument was so amazing it completely flipped my perspective. Suggs was an elite run defender along with the rush, something not many of those other guys possess. Hopefully his DPOY helps a lot. I had no clue he was so high up on playoff sacks that is a pretty cool stat. The only reason I am a bit unsure is this ending generation is flooded with Elite pass rushers, I don't know if they will ignore Suggs. Hope not.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Agreed on Yanda, and Tucker's potential should he continue the trend, which we have no reason to believe otherwise. That being said, I personally feel that Suggs has a chance to be enshrined eventually. Peppers and Ware are both arguably locks. You'd expect Allen and Abraham to be well in contention, same goes for the Colts former duo (Abraham, in my eyes, is one of the most unheralded edge rushers of his era). That being said, I doubt that the discussion between them all is boiled down solely to just the sacks totals. If that's the discussion, Freeney wouldn't be placed over Suggs as he has a season on the latter and both average basically an identical number per year. Granted that Freeny had more in his prime, but the discussion itself is beside the point as the sack figure is a shallow basis on its own. The Colts patterned their personnel specifically to complement the Peyton Manning-led quick-strike offense. That meant Gary Brackett in the middle of Tampa 2-Cover 2 shells, Kelvin Hayden and Marlon Jackson sitting on short routes, and the Freeny-Mathis duo consistently having chances to tee off on opposing QBs while being liabilities in the running game partly as a byproduct of their roles. That's not meant as a knock on their talents. I thought Mathis was remarkable in his 2013 season, and that was under an odd-front scheme and a different team composition altogether. Freeny will forever be remembered for his almost unstoppable spin move aside from being a dominant rusher. But the opportunities were more plentiful.

Suggs spent most of his career as a counterpart of an average-scoring, run-based offense attempting to control the ToP. On the flip side, aside from obviously Peppers, he's arguably the best multi-faceted defender on that list. He was an outright dominant run defender for the better part of his career, and capable in coverage as well with how well he read his cues. Granted, the same argument used above should apply for the sake of objectivity. It needs to be mentioned that he played alongside of outstanding run defenders such as Ray Lewis, Jarret Johnson, Haloti Ngata, etc. The defense was built to defend the run. But as above, it's not an indictment on talent given that he was one of our best run defenders after the departure of the players listed. That being said, the sacks totals themselves aren't a ways away. He's currently 21st all-time and could very well jump into the Top 20 this season, as 8.5 sacks would tie him with the inactive Mathis at 17. And if we're looking solely at those figures, then his playoff performances shouldn't be discounted. He's currently 3rd all-time in playoff sacks, behind Bruce Smith and in front of Reggie White. Again, the number is helped by the opportunities given he's played 17 games, but he's ahead of Freeney who's played 22 (Smith and White played 20 and 19 for reference sake). It helps that he's the only player on the list above to have earned the AP DPoY award aside from the chip. I'm not making case for Suggs' HoF induction, nor am I presenting him as the best player of the ones mentioned above. I would presume that most have Peppers on top of their boards, and Suggs could potentially end up on the outside looking in like Leslie O'Neal, though the latter example is a potential indictment of utilizing sack numbers as the barometer given that O'Neal is 13th all-time. I'm just making the case that if we're throwing out the names of Freeney, Mathis, Allen, Abraham, etc. as players meriting consideration, then it's only fair to include Suggs in their conversation.
Damn, when Suggs is being presented to the HOF voters, you should make his case.....you would put in perspective. No doubt.
 

Truth

Staff Member
Administrator
Your argument was so amazing it completely flipped my perspective. Suggs was an elite run defender along with the rush, something not many of those other guys possess. Hopefully his DPOY helps a lot. I had no clue he was so high up on playoff sacks that is a pretty cool stat. The only reason I am a bit unsure is this ending generation is flooded with Elite pass rushers, I don't know if they will ignore Suggs. Hope not.
Good to hear. That's the best outcome that I could've hoped for, and I appreciate you reading through the long post. For what it's worth, your point still stands and it cannot be discounted. I'm with you in that there will likely be a logjam of edge rushing names once he's eligible, and if he does become enshrined, there could very well be a lengthy waiting game. I do expect him to at least merit consideration, and as you've alluded to, it's wild-card of a case.
 

Sooky

Pro Bowler
TBH Suggs is elite and it shows when he hasn't been on the field. If he was asked to only rush the quarterback his stats would be way inflated. He is one of the best all-around edge guys in the league ever since he has been here. I think it may be awhile for Suggs to get in but there is a chance with his DPOY and a ring. A lot of people only look at stats though so I could see him being overlooked as well..
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
I think one thing that would really help Suggs is another year or two of double digit sacks.

He had a five year stretch of just single digit sacks and then had double digit sacks in back to back years, then injury, then double digit sacks in back to back years, then injury, then 8.0 last year on a defense that really only featured Suggs as a pass rusher.

Get him another year or two of 10.0+ and it puts him over 130.0 for his career and shows an extremely dominant stretch, despite two injuries, to go with elite run defense. That would put him in guaranteed, in my opinion.

That's what I look for- a dominant stretch of a players career where they're unquestioned one of the best at their position.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I think one thing that would really help Suggs is another year or two of double digit sacks.

He had a five year stretch of just single digit sacks and then had double digit sacks in back to back years, then injury, then double digit sacks in back to back years, then injury, then 8.0 last year on a defense that really only featured Suggs as a pass rusher.

Get him another year or two of 10.0+ and it puts him over 130.0 for his career and shows an extremely dominant stretch, despite two injuries, to go with elite run defense. That would put him in guaranteed, in my opinion.

That's what I look for- a dominant stretch of a players career where they're unquestioned one of the best at their position.

another superbowl ring wouldn't do him any harm either ;)
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
The one negative to Suggs which isn't a big deal to me but might be to others is that i would say that maybe only for 2 years was he the best defender on the Ravens. A lot of his early career he was 3rd and at the moment that title goes to either Jimmy or Weddle.
 

Somerset Ravens

Pro Bowler
I do feel that Suggs is deserving of the hall of fame but perhaps not on his first year of eligibility. When I look at hall of fame members such as Andre Tippett, Fred Dean and Chris Hanburger I think Suggs is a lock. I realize the hall of fame selection process in ambiguous and there certainly must be behind the scene politics that play a part in the selections.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
I do feel that Suggs is deserving of the hall of fame but perhaps not on his first year of eligibility. When I look at hall of fame members such as Andre Tippett, Fred Dean and Chris Hanburger I think Suggs is a lock. I realize the hall of fame selection process in ambiguous and there certainly must be behind the scene politics that play a part in the selections.

Dean and Hanburger got in from the veterans committees vote which is always a shoo in. All 3 imo shouldn't have made it in.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Dean and Hanburger got in from the veterans committees vote which is always a shoo in. All 3 imo shouldn't have made it in.
They were both extremely good players in their time and believe they were deserving of the HOF. That being said, I'm one that doesn't believe that Lynn swann nor Joe Namath should be in the hall.
 

purplepittabread88

Staff Member
Administrator
They were both extremely good players in their time and believe they were deserving of the HOF. That being said, I'm one that doesn't believe that Lynn swann nor Joe Namath should be in the hall.
I agree Swann and Namath weren't Hall of fame level players but I don't think you can deny they had hall of fame impact. I mean those are guys almost all football fans would know, and when you look back at the past that is what people will remember for sure.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I agree Swann and Namath weren't Hall of fame level players but I don't think you can deny they had hall of fame impact. I mean those are guys almost all football fans would know, and when you look back at the past that is what people will remember for sure.
Swann is easily remember most for thr catch and how well he played during the playoffs, but had a very short career. Namath had about 4 good seasons, maybe 5. If he had lost the super bowl that he guaranteed to win, he would probably not be in the HOF. Of course he did a lot of commercials and was an extremely popular player, which didn't hurt either.
 

cobrajet

Hall of Famer
I tell you a Raven that SHOULD be in the HOF, Art Modell, and it is a damn shame that he will never get in! I want to say more about this but I can't without cursing and I am old school about women and children reading it.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Ed played in 189 total games; with 73 interceptions, 156 passes defended, 11 forced fumbles, 14 fumbles recovered, six sacks, 531 solo tackles, 1,947 all-purpose return yards and nine touchdowns. Furthermore, Reed was a five-time first team All-Pro, nine-time Pro Bowler, and Pro Football Reference rated him with a career approximate value of 136.
 
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