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Joe Flacco

BloodRaven said:
Youre making the same excuses for him, yes he needs a strong oline, ground game and defense etc but thats because he's not capable of carrying an offense like other highly paid QBs.
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Okay so it seems we have successfully dispelled the notion that he got worse after the SB so now I just need to do the easy part and dispel this league wide myth that there are QBs out there carrying bad offenses to I assume playoff wins since that is the goal of every team.

Other than Aaron Rodgers who is the only QB on his level who still has a pretty good surrounding cast but still cant quite get his team to the SB on his own because they wont help him there are no QBs doing it. In fact lets look at teams that made the SB since the Ravens did it.

Last year was Falcons vs Patriots. Patriots having a great OLine and multiple playmakers on offense as well as one of the best defenses in the league and an easily top 4 secondary. Since I know the Patriots are going to be mentioned a lot as I go on, when they make the SB they always have an elite OLine which they have every year, elite weapons on offense, and some part of there defense is always great usually the secondary. The Falcons in terms of playmaker were LOADED on offense. Defense was considered shoddy but offensively the Falcons had weapons to compete with anyone so they certainly were not being carried by Matt Ryan and when they were in years prior he was not good enough to do so.

Well lets go back to 2 years ago then. You had the Panthers and Broncos. The Broncos having one of the best defenses in history going against Carolina a team that was both of the best run defending and rushing teams in the NFL. For all Cam Newtons showiness that team was built around pounding the rock and throwing it up to the big bodied receivers they drafted. Again though when it was Cams time to carry that team they failed as will be trend on this list and the great defense by the way won that game.

3 years ago we had Seahawks and the Patriots. The Seahawks as was the case during their run being lead by one of the best secondaries ever going against the Patriots who once again built a great secondary (notice that trend) by signing Revis to an essentially 1 year deal to go with an offense loaded with weapons and a great offensive line. Even still that game came down to that secondary making a play when Seattle honestly should have run the ball (see what happens when you want QB to carry an offense).

4 years ago it was the Seahawks vs the Broncos. The Broncos that year are the closest example to an offense carried by its QB even though they had a legit OLine and legit weapons Peyton Manning was certainly on fire that year. However we remember that game as the game that fire was put out and stamped on by one of the great secondaries in Seattle.

By the way before I try this another way do note that the teams that seemed to win the SB had some of the best secondaries in football that year.

However since this is about Flacco and maybe judging by just who makes it the SB is a bad example lets just list the QBs who are in that pay sphere and talk about their teams a bit and the lack of carrying the QBs have done.

In the AFC North there are 2 other QBs in that pay sphere in Dalton and Big Ben. Dalton I am not even going to dignify with an answer and Ben has really started taking off again once he got Bell and Brown. However that still has not been enough to "carry" the team and they really have started taking that next step as there defense has gotten better each year.

In the AFC South the only big contract QB is Luck and we have all seen how that team has fared trying to rely on Luck to carry them over the hump. They need more. They need an OLine, they need a running game and they need a defense.

In the AFC West there is Rivers who got that team to 5-11 so thats all ill say about that. I will mention the Raiders because while not in that paysphere I think Carr is on that level of the guys on this list and that offense is loaded with weapons and a great OLine with a solid defense and they can make the SB because of it.

In the AFC East there is Tom Brady and we already talked about the weapons he has around him on the OLine and on offense as well as on defense. Tannihill is also in that pay bracket but has done absolutely nothing with it. They made the playoffs last year but lets be blunt they were not one of the top 6 teams in the AFC, I wouldnt even consider them one of the top 8 in the AFC last year and they got rightly destroyed in the playoffs.

In the NFC North there is Stafford who has not been able to really put together anything and lets remember before this year he had one of the best WR of all time on his team. There is also Rodgers who is in a class of his own and is able to at times carry a team but they have weapons, they just have a lot of unfilled holes and they just hope Rodgers can fix it but he is never enough on his own.

In the NFC South there is Brees and Newton who both finished below .500 so thats all need be said and Matt Ryan who I already mentioned had an elite team built around him on offense that year and before that could not carry the team.

In the NFC West there is Wilson who gets paid like that and again Seattle is all about defense. The one thing I will give Wilson is that he needs an OLine less then most because of his mobility but to make up for that he needs better playmakers so it balances out.

In the NFC East you really only have Eli for now and we all saw over the years how his career has been brought back from the brink by getting ODB.

In summary none of the QBs listed here are bad and without them the above teams have NO CHANCE of making the super bowl. Go ask Houston about what its like to have a Super Bowl level team but no QB to go with it. They have any of the QBs I listed (except probably Dalton and Tannehill) then the Texans are a SB favorite but instead they have no chance and thats what a QB gives you and that is why they are worth it but they cant do it alone and that is the paradox of the NFL. You need to pay big money for the QB to have a chance but you also need to build a team around him if you are going to take advantage of that chance.
 
Ive done this ad nauseum, anyone could make Flacco look like the GOAT with cherry picked stats and rose tinted context but who outside of this city is buying that? I dont feel like Im being harsh because in 5 years hes gone from being the second best QB throwing the deep ball to one of the worst, I dont even want to get into how much worse it gets the more he throws.

Anyway my argument is that he hasnt lived up to his contract like the other QBs on his paygrade and that he has regressed, nothing more than that.
 
BloodRaven said:
Ive done this ad nauseum, anyone could make Flacco look like the GOAT with cherry picked stats and rose tinted context but who outside of this city is buying that? I dont feel like Im being harsh because in 5 years hes gone from being the second best QB throwing the deep ball to one of the worst, I dont even want to get into how much worse it gets the more he throws.

Anyway my argument is that he hasnt lived up to his contract like the other QBs on his paygrade and that he has regressed, nothing more than that.
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His career stats show he hasnt regressed. I can show you his full stat line for every year and with the exception of 2013 which had a LOT of factors his numbers have not regressed so that is a provable false statement. His 2014 year was his best year as a pro and that is also backed by the statistics.

I listed on similar contracts and showed they are not "carrying the offense" in the way you seem to want. If you want ANY QB to live up to a massive deal they need help. Great QBs are not making trash into treasure what they do is they get the most out of the treasure. SSS was a beast in Baltimore but remember Carolina cut him because they thought he had nothing left. Torrey Smith looked pretty good as a Raven and has looked pretty bad since then. He elevates those around him and thats what you want out of your big contract QB and its what he does well and its what the big names on that list truly do well.
 
Nice read @Adreme. I'd like to add one more to your list or four...

The Washington Redskins of 1981-92. That team under the leadership of Joe Gibbs made four different Super Bowls with three different qbs and not one of them was a franchise qb. Theismann was the best of the bunch and took them to Super Bowls in 82-3 and 83-4. Doug Williams brought them to the super bowl in 87-8 and Marc Rypien brought them to the super bowl in 91-2. They won three of these Super Bowls. Gibbs is the only coach to win a super bowl with more than one qb. He never had a franchise qb. He also used three different running backs in those four Super Bowls.

What am I getting? Well the key ingredient to these teams was the offensive line. Without the Hogs they don't reach those Super Bowls. They also had a stout defense, lead by a great DC coach, in Petitbon. The defense and the Oline allowed these three qbs to win three Super Bowls back in the 80s and early 90s. They didn't have a star qb, but the qb had talent around him, and a coach that is one of the best ever. Like the skins or not, they had a great team.
 
Ok so now I'm a little concerned - this came from the br.com notes:

Quarterback Joe Flacco continues to be sidelined. The Ravens said he will return at some point in the preseason, and Offensive Coordinator Marty Mornhinweg told reporters that he’s “progressing well” and that “it looks like we are going to have just enough time to get him ready as long as he keeps progressing.”
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The way Marty phrased that really pricked my ears because it really feels like he's going to be tight against the end of preseason before he returns now
 
rossihunter2 said:
Ok so now I'm a little concerned - this came from the br.com notes:



The way Marty phrased that really pricked my ears because it really feels like he's going to be tight against the end of preseason before he returns now
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I am not worried still, I am honestly under the impression they REALLY dont wanna risk Mallet starting a game which considering how he has played is completely understandable.
 
I would've felt a lot better if we had both Alex Lewis and a good back up in Siragusa. We need a very solid O-line to be able to run the ball effectively. I don't see us winning too many games with a porous O-line! Not because it fails to protect Flacco but because it'll force him to throw too many times and make mistakes under duress.... throwing the ball doesn't help Baltimore period and that has been established. So, I'm not too worried about Flacco's return because without a great O-line it really doesn't matter.
Our Defense is going to be stellar this year and this fact hurts even more that the offense won't be able to put up enough points for us to win double digit games to make the playoffs.
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
Oh no. La Canfora reported it. That means Joe Flacco is out for the rest of the season.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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That could be. He's only right about 50% of the time. Let's hope this time he gets it right. When he was with the Washington Post covering the skins, he and Dan Snyder couldn't stand each other. Snyder got it right when he gave him a recommendation to the NFL Network. That was a way of getting him out of DC. NFL Network only lasted a year.

He's really awful
 
my problem with the reports that flacco is back next week is ian rapoport has said nothing and out of all the ravens sources saying flacco would be back sooner - rapsheet is the one who's got it right at each stage of the flacco news cycle - unless he says anything at this point i wont believe it til i see it
 
So Marty was asked if there was a timetable that he and Joe would like to have him back in practice to feel comfortable going into the season w/ his level of prep.

His response is immaculate. I've read it several times, and cant stop laughing.

Marty:
"Yeah, well, I think I know. And at least Joe thinks he knows when this will happen, so that way I think I know and so we think we know. And then so, lookit, if it's before that or a little bit before -- probably not going to be much before -- maybe a little bit before or a little bit after, we'll adjust the plan. As long as he's back within a reasonable amount of time to prepare I think we're going to be just fine there, yeah."

That's linguistic ballet if ever I've seen it. I think I know... well Joe thinks he knows, and I know Joe knows, so therefore I think I know, which means we know, ya know?
 
RavensMania said:
This is great news if it's true
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I tend to believe it.

I dont think its all that serious of an injury so long as it heals. And they know that the whole season hinges on Joe. He's finally in the same offense for consecutive years, so its not as crucial for him to be getting all the reps he normally would.... and he worked out at the facility w/ the team all offseason. So he's been in the book, taking physical reps with his receivers, and in the film room for a long time.

The only thing that could suffer some is his chemistry with a new guy like Maclin, Adeboyjo, Watson, etc... but we need to run the ball to have success. Thats first. And Joe gets into rhythm off of that. Hes never been a timing, accuracy type guy.

Plus I think he's best with guys that get separation through crafty route running or their physicality and therefore create a very defined window of opportunity. He waits for the WR to create an opening of space and then will physically get the ball into that space before any defender can recover to make a play (most of the time).

Maclin can do that. Perriman can do that. The TE's and RB's typically can do that. So im not too worried about it.

As long as he actually is healthy - i think we see a much improved Joe. Maybe a little rust, but i think eventually the importance of time missed will have been over-exaggerated.
 
Boldnpurpblack said:
So Marty was asked if there was a timetable that he and Joe would like to have him back in practice to feel comfortable going into the season w/ his level of prep.

His response is immaculate. I've read it several times, and cant stop laughing.

Marty:
"Yeah, well, I think I know. And at least Joe thinks he knows when this will happen, so that way I think I know and so we think we know. And then so, lookit, if it's before that or a little bit before -- probably not going to be much before -- maybe a little bit before or a little bit after, we'll adjust the plan. As long as he's back within a reasonable amount of time to prepare I think we're going to be just fine there, yeah."

That's linguistic ballet if ever I've seen it. I think I know... well Joe thinks he knows, and I know Joe knows, so therefore I think I know, which means we know, ya know?
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I read that in his voice and laughed quietly in my head. Marty is a character
 
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