Tank
Hall of Famer
Yeah, but you know just like global warming it's really Flacco's fault.
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Joe Flacco
- Thread starter ThatsMyJoeTerback
- Start date
a lot of that is the market place not making our great players household names: CJ Mosley is 4x pro bowl, 4 x 2nd team all-pro (always stuck behind wagner and kuechly) and was narrowly beaten out for DROY - on any other team he's a superstar name
Marlon Humphrey is viewed in a very different way to Jalen Ramsey, Marshon Lattimore and other great young corners but he's had none of the bad stretches they've had
Ronnie Stanley has been one of the top LTs in the league since the stretch of his rookie year
now we could obviously do better but talent-wise we have these superstar players just not at sexy positions or in big markets
and why wouldnt you include marshal yanda? he's a top 3 interior lineman in the league
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
I’m not talking about how they are “viewed”. I couldn’t care less.
If you really think CJ or Ronnie or marlon are “super stars” than I don’t know what to tell you. They’re not. They’re not elite players. That’s a fucking joke. Theres a big difference between a really good player and an elite player.
how do you define elite players then?
cdp
Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm with DeVito52. Elite = they dominate their opponent every week. Can't say that about CJ. Yanda peaked. Tucker for sure but he's a kicker. Humphrey is on his way.
We have got great depth but no elite players and depth can get you only so far. The chargers won last week because of the dominance of Ingram( and Lamar not reading the defense and Marty's struggles)
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
We had elite talent during our first run. Ray Rice was a top 5 RB, good oline, and guys like Ngata and Suggs in the front seven, who commanded a double team all by themselves on EVERY play.
I do think CJ is a top 10 ILB easy. So it's not like we LACK talent, but we really, really need to find a way to acquire a dominant pass rusher. No more spending that money on a one dimmensional run stuffer.
Sure, we took the quantity over quality approach this past season. But especially on the defensive side of the ball we need upgrades. We need to find a pass rusher who can take over every game. Whether it be interior or exterior.
I do think CJ is a top 10 ILB easy. So it's not like we LACK talent, but we really, really need to find a way to acquire a dominant pass rusher. No more spending that money on a one dimmensional run stuffer.
Sure, we took the quantity over quality approach this past season. But especially on the defensive side of the ball we need upgrades. We need to find a pass rusher who can take over every game. Whether it be interior or exterior.
Tank
Hall of Famer
A better term may be impact players. RR, Haloti, Siz were players who impacted the game anytime they were on the field.
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
Elite players are the very best at their respective positions. Aaron Donald. Khalil Mack. Bobby Wagner. Julio Jones. Von Miller. Travis Kelce. Earl Thomas etc. See where I’m going? Would you REALLY put any of our players in the same category as those guys? Hell no. Yes @Lost_In_Translation CJ is a top 10 LB but top 10 at your position doesn’t make you a superstar. If there are players much better than you at your position you’re not elite. Elite players take over games. Almost never go unnoticed. There’s not a perfect mold for a superstar, you just know them when you see them. It’s really not a defined thing of course but you should just know? I don’t know what to tell you man.
Marlon could be on his way there but isn’t yet. CJ is very good but the threshold between him and the best at his position is too large. Tucker is a superstar, but a kicker, so sure you can count him. Yanda is the only non special teams player on our team that could be considered one of the very best.
i see what you mean
personally i do think CJ is that good - but I realise ive often been in the minority with regards to CJ being that good
ive always advocated for more playmakers but i do think you're underestimating just how important media is in terms of the stardom of some guys and the underrating of others...
is Jalen Ramsey a superstar? is marshon lattimore? why?
Jalen Ramsey’s obviously a superstar. Why, because he says so.
He’s also a superstar for his mouth
I definitely agree with the sentiment of needing talent around the QB, and you're right, teams like the Chiefs and Rams are definitely benefiting from having QBs on rookie deals, as they should be. But I will say that I'm more on board with the totality of the situation and not just the massive QB contracts. Take the Brees example from above. Brees and Flacco are currently both $24 and $24.75 million, respectively, which is the highest amount Flacco's cap hit reached while in Baltimore. Tom Brady isn't too far off at $22 million. For as much flack as it caught, some of it definitely deservedly so, Flacco's cap hit in the first 3 seasons after the 2013 deal combined at $36.1 million. The cap hit was going to double in 2016, but then he signed an extension, and it swung up to $22.5 million instead, which at the time was 14.5% of the total cap space of $155 million. Almost surprisingly, it never crossed 15% in any season of his tenure, so it didn't completely take away our breathing room.
With that in mind, I think that having QBs on market deals doesn't necessarily tie up a team on its own. You have to also have misses in the draft and in free agency, including paying multiple players slightly above their worth or giving out contracts that don't have reasonable outs for the majority of their spans. Now the Saints model isn't overly realistic to follow given that they've brought in arguably a historic amount of talent in a single draft class, with players like Michael Thomas in recent ones prior. And if they do retain Brees, they might find themselves in a situation akin to the Seahawks' scenario from years prior, where you are forced to nail incoming talent because you can't retain all of your current talent. But I personally feel like you are able to remain in the picture despite paying your QB on the market value, though it's obviously more helpful to have one on an affordable deal, especially a rookie contract.
RaineV1
Ravens Ring of Honor
I think you can definitely still succeed with a high paid QB. The Saints, Chargers, and Colts are proving that. It's just that you then have to find really talented young guys through the draft to put around them. Had the Ravens given Flacco someone like Kamara or Thomas through the draft we wouldn't be having this discussion. It's purely our inability to find great offensive talent in the draft.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
All those qbs are better than ours and still went through rough patches as well. The only team to pay their guy with continued success is the Patriots it feels like since the Flacco deal.
RaineV1
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah, I can definitely see Kubiak pushing for a Flacco trade, and he has a decent amount of sway in the organization. If Flacco can play anywhere close to how he did in 2014 again, that team is a SB contender.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Isn't Keenum still under contract?
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Joe won't make much sense there because Keenum is already a Bronco, with $21 mil cap hit for 2019.
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
The question is though: how good is the Broncos o-line? If it's top 10 in the league, then there's a good chance he can post somewhat similar numbers. If the o-line ain't shit, neither will his performance be.
EDIT: All of this assuming he goes there.
EDIT: All of this assuming he goes there.
SaltyDog
MVP
I could definitely see this happening. I could also see several other teams interest in Joe.
But for those who are more in the know then I, I have a question:
1. How would a trade for Joe work? Do they work out a deal with a potential suitor first, then designate him a June 1 cut, or would they not cut him until after June 1? I know there is signing bonus money through 2020 but not sure who would be responsible for that in a trade situation.