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Joe Flacco
- Thread starter ThatsMyJoeTerback
- Start date
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
@Adreme, @redrum52, etc, etc.
So in 2018 we are debating the same old shit about Flacco. With idiotic fans being impatient about Lamar being drafted. The Flacco haters going "I told you so". Hell, I am a Flacco supporter. He's played like shit since 2016. He closed out 2017 strong in the final few games once the brace was removed. He was dominant against a good bills secondary(the only good part of that team other than Lesean McCoy).
I'll reiterate my stance. Flacco isn't elite. He's never been elite. He was bad in 2016 and 2017 and injuries CLEARLY played a big role in that. "But thats an excuse". It's a valid one. I want you to do any basic task after throwing your back out. I'm a runner for god's sake. Even in this altitude I can run 10 miles without breaking a sweat if I am at 100%.. If I IT band flares up just once, it debilitates me significantly. The bad decisions are inexcusable but Flacco is woefully inconsistent as a QB in that regard. There are games where he's complete trash, in his good seasons about 3 games a year where he just would be totally lost.
It's frustrating as shit, but that's how he's always been as a QB. I got used to it back in 2010. And frankly, this debate is so stupid because the Flacco lovers and haters are both wrong. There are a few things here that are facts here that some of you conviently just ignore. There are a few things that the sports media does(not just for QBs but everything in general).
1. Flacco has won a ring, and he was the primary reason the team won the ring. He's put this team in a position to go to two other rings only for Lee Evans to drop a pass that was on the money, Cundiff to shank wide left, and for Rahsaan Melvin and Matt Elam to help contribute to Tom Brady and Julian Edelman of all people to throw TDs and throw two TDs. "Flacco blew that game though with a shitty INT". That INT was shit and the middle was open. But giving up 2 14 point leads had a hell of a lot more to do with it. We should've been way up and Flacco was the guy to do that.
2. Yes, Flacco isn't elite. His detractors knock on him because he has to have "everything". No he doesn't, that argument is bullshit. He's always had a good defense, but it's not a coincidence that the years we gave him good supporting casts(2010-2012, 2014) are the years he had the most success. He won it in 2012 with a good supporting cast, not an elite one. Good oline, good WRs, very good RB. Not elite guys. None of our guys on offense were Calvin Johnson world beaters. They were just good players.
3. He is always going to be inconsitent. There's no denying it. There are games where he's going to look like he did vs. the Bengals last Thursday. There are games where he is going to obliterate the competiton too.
Is he frustrating? Yes. "But that contract...". Firstly, plenty of teams have paid their franchise QB and have been able to have cap room. Ozzie Newsome's idiotic strategy of backloading all the contracts has fucked us for the longest time. Super Bowl caliber QBs aren't cheap. Even if he's not elite he's proven to be good enough to win a ring. And he still shows he can be that player.
Yes, he needs a team. Who cares? Aaron Rodgers is the packers and he isn't winning a ring any time soon. Flacco isn't some elite world beater, but if you give him a good run game, defense, and guys who can catch the ball he can win you games. The defense has been constant, but since 2014 the running game has been inconsistent and the receivers have been fucking terrible. Now. We have Alex Collins, Crabtree, John Brown, Snead, Hayden Hurst, and Andrews. There's going to be growing pains since all of these guys except for Collins are new and practice isn't really the best metric for developing a rapport during in-game situations, but I think we're going to be fine once the chemistry sets in and some guys knock off the rust and get adjusted.
We make the playoffs, Flacco is staying for another year. Sorry redrum and allblackraven. We've given him the tools. The problem with the team right now isn't him. We're not starting the right offensive lineman.. That's literally the entire problem right now. The defense at full health should be an elite unit and the moment Stanley, Yanda and Lewis knock off the rust from injury the oline will be fine.
I still have us winning the division. The Steelers are a circus, the Browns are too young, and the Bengals will always fall apart in the final moments. I think Flacco is Flacco. He'll have his really good days, and then his shitty days too. For the first time since 2014 we have a well rounded team. We get to January even with the wild card spot, we've got a chance.
So in 2018 we are debating the same old shit about Flacco. With idiotic fans being impatient about Lamar being drafted. The Flacco haters going "I told you so". Hell, I am a Flacco supporter. He's played like shit since 2016. He closed out 2017 strong in the final few games once the brace was removed. He was dominant against a good bills secondary(the only good part of that team other than Lesean McCoy).
I'll reiterate my stance. Flacco isn't elite. He's never been elite. He was bad in 2016 and 2017 and injuries CLEARLY played a big role in that. "But thats an excuse". It's a valid one. I want you to do any basic task after throwing your back out. I'm a runner for god's sake. Even in this altitude I can run 10 miles without breaking a sweat if I am at 100%.. If I IT band flares up just once, it debilitates me significantly. The bad decisions are inexcusable but Flacco is woefully inconsistent as a QB in that regard. There are games where he's complete trash, in his good seasons about 3 games a year where he just would be totally lost.
It's frustrating as shit, but that's how he's always been as a QB. I got used to it back in 2010. And frankly, this debate is so stupid because the Flacco lovers and haters are both wrong. There are a few things here that are facts here that some of you conviently just ignore. There are a few things that the sports media does(not just for QBs but everything in general).
1. Flacco has won a ring, and he was the primary reason the team won the ring. He's put this team in a position to go to two other rings only for Lee Evans to drop a pass that was on the money, Cundiff to shank wide left, and for Rahsaan Melvin and Matt Elam to help contribute to Tom Brady and Julian Edelman of all people to throw TDs and throw two TDs. "Flacco blew that game though with a shitty INT". That INT was shit and the middle was open. But giving up 2 14 point leads had a hell of a lot more to do with it. We should've been way up and Flacco was the guy to do that.
2. Yes, Flacco isn't elite. His detractors knock on him because he has to have "everything". No he doesn't, that argument is bullshit. He's always had a good defense, but it's not a coincidence that the years we gave him good supporting casts(2010-2012, 2014) are the years he had the most success. He won it in 2012 with a good supporting cast, not an elite one. Good oline, good WRs, very good RB. Not elite guys. None of our guys on offense were Calvin Johnson world beaters. They were just good players.
3. He is always going to be inconsitent. There's no denying it. There are games where he's going to look like he did vs. the Bengals last Thursday. There are games where he is going to obliterate the competiton too.
Is he frustrating? Yes. "But that contract...". Firstly, plenty of teams have paid their franchise QB and have been able to have cap room. Ozzie Newsome's idiotic strategy of backloading all the contracts has fucked us for the longest time. Super Bowl caliber QBs aren't cheap. Even if he's not elite he's proven to be good enough to win a ring. And he still shows he can be that player.
Yes, he needs a team. Who cares? Aaron Rodgers is the packers and he isn't winning a ring any time soon. Flacco isn't some elite world beater, but if you give him a good run game, defense, and guys who can catch the ball he can win you games. The defense has been constant, but since 2014 the running game has been inconsistent and the receivers have been fucking terrible. Now. We have Alex Collins, Crabtree, John Brown, Snead, Hayden Hurst, and Andrews. There's going to be growing pains since all of these guys except for Collins are new and practice isn't really the best metric for developing a rapport during in-game situations, but I think we're going to be fine once the chemistry sets in and some guys knock off the rust and get adjusted.
We make the playoffs, Flacco is staying for another year. Sorry redrum and allblackraven. We've given him the tools. The problem with the team right now isn't him. We're not starting the right offensive lineman.. That's literally the entire problem right now. The defense at full health should be an elite unit and the moment Stanley, Yanda and Lewis knock off the rust from injury the oline will be fine.
I still have us winning the division. The Steelers are a circus, the Browns are too young, and the Bengals will always fall apart in the final moments. I think Flacco is Flacco. He'll have his really good days, and then his shitty days too. For the first time since 2014 we have a well rounded team. We get to January even with the wild card spot, we've got a chance.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
You say that after I've said I hope Flacco plays 2 more seasons. My gripe isn't Flacco, it's that the rules are always changing when they judge him. I've accepted what he is, but hope to get a couple more solid years of play before we even consider Jackson. I understand the OL problems and the injuries from years prior and the shitty wrs, but when these guys are claiming that Maclin will be an upgrade and others say he won't, dont come back with some "oh the guys were trash" bullshit. And the OL, run game and wrs that can catch theme can be applied for EVERY QB.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
There is a thing called "being wrong". I was a Maclin fan and I can admit to being wrong. Dude was never healthy and when he was.. Well he did nothing. I still am convinced that if we had this WR corps last year... We would've won 12 games. So it's not bullshit. Some people are just incapable of admitting their wrong. Lesson learned.
As for the "it can be applied with every QB". Blake lost them that game last year. Defense blew it, but he blew it harder. People forget that the Patriots defense in 2014 was actually a pretty good unit. This Patriots defense sucks, and it is probably going to prevent Brady from going out on a high note. There are some QBs you can give that shit, and they'll fail. I don't mind that Ramsey called Flacco out because he has sucked every time we played Jacksonville since we've been in the league.. But to say "playoff blake is good" is laughable. The Steelers had a joke of a defense last year and so did the Patriots. Flacco took on three good defenses in the postseason where we won the SB.
Flacco walks the fine line. He's never going to be an elite QB but he's proven he can win and be successful if you've given him the pieces. That's all you need at the NFL level. It's why I have no issues with him despite all of his maddening inconsistencies.
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
Wtf of all things you’re gonna use Maclin as your argument? We all thought maclin would be a good addition and he turned out to be shit. He was trash. There’s no arguing that and if you think any different you’re wrong.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Actually, he didn't want Maclin. He wanted Boldin. And I wanted.. well both lol.
That point is moot lol. We all get some wrong. The argument isn't bullshit though. Most of us thought he was going to be an upgrade and Maclin didn't show up. There's a reason he's still on the market.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Bingo. People have a real problem admitting they're wrong.
To avoid coming off as a complete asshole I'm going to stop responding to you nd certain people when It comes to Flacco cause you're obviously biased. Curious how much further you've gotten in Power though.
Tank
Hall of Famer
The Ravens signed Maclin in the middle of June when he was one of the few FA WRs left, they were scraping the barrel. Given the dearth of talent at the position I think pretty much everyone was excited including me to see him come to Baltimore. However a friend of mine in KC cautioned that Maclin was always injured while there and turned out to be a dud which turned out to be the case here as well, even worse than a dud he was a thief! lol
I don’t think anyone would not have wanted Q back, but obviously he wasn’t available.
I don’t think anyone would not have wanted Q back, but obviously he wasn’t available.
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What are you insinuating, with your last comment. Decisions are made as a team.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Tv show
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Hes playing ok so far, you kinda expect more from him with how much he is being paid but he is what he is. The past 5 years have been a catch 22 where he needs everything perfect to play well, but we dont have the cap room to retain or put pieces around him. Outside of Yanda our offense is dirt cheap.
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
Lol I finished season 4 but Hulu doesn’t have season 5 so I’ve gotta do some waiting now.
TheCity5
MVP
I understand his high salary, but that's the standard for a starting QB. You can't just pay a guy and surround him with poor talent then point to his salary. The Steelers pay Big Ben big money and yet don't have any trouble in surrounding him with talent. Same for Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, or Philip Rivers. It's been proven time and time again that whatever your QB makes doesn't restrict you from adding talent on the offense. I mean we did pass on plenty WRs via the draft and with how much money WRs are bringing in now, it's obviously better to hit on one via the draft and developing one then signing one.
You have to look at the front office and hold them accountable for the misses they've had. We've had some really bummy drafts that has seemingly caught up to us.
In terms of Flacco's money, he's been long surpassed in terms of average and contract value. I don't think his money is restricting us from being a better team. Don't get me wrong, he has to play better because he has not helped his case but everyone knows that Joe needs a run game and NFL level WRs to play up to expectations. The FO has not done it's job with that.
I don't like giving Joe passes at all, I strongly believe that he has to play better, but there's no denying that he's been dealt a very unfair card these past few years. I honestly think people are going to be suprised at the direction the FO takes with Joe as a really don't think his days are as numbered as some are led to believe.
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
Flaccos contract isnt the only reason we have a cheap offense but its the main reason, the other is missing on draft picks... not that we can afford to keep quality players anyway after KO and Jensen walked.
I just dont get mitigating crippling contracts because other teams have overpaid QBs, thats a justification between teams that dont make the playoffs. When you take on the lions share of the cap then you need to take on the lions share of the responsibility to produce, period. Flacco needs to produce.
TheCity5
MVP
v
From 2013-2015 Joe never had a cap hit over 15M, but during that time frame just what exactly did we do to add adequete talent on the offense? Sure we had Smith Sr. and Torrey Smith for one season together but during that time, we know the awful team that surrounded Joe in 2013, and he never had a reliable #3 receiving option at all. The OL was great in 2014 but that lasted only one year. Since 2013 we had added nothing of substance to the offense outside of a few linemen who have departed and not been effective till the last year of their deals.
Joe definitely deserves his fair share of critcism, but I think the F.O has done just as bad of a job managing the team as Joe has done on the field. That's just how I view it.
Also, in terms of him taking most of the responsibility because of his cap hit, well I would point to the cap numbers of Jimmy Smith, Brandon Williams, Tony Jefferson, among others because they have not lived up to their deals and it's hurting our pockets and ability to add talent when you don't get the investment you expect in return.
I'd heavily argue the main reason is the missed draft picks and conservative FA approach. Flacco's # is definitely an issue but he's 10th in cap hit among QBs in cap # and it took quite a while for his cap number to really start hurting the Ravens cap space.
From 2013-2015 Joe never had a cap hit over 15M, but during that time frame just what exactly did we do to add adequete talent on the offense? Sure we had Smith Sr. and Torrey Smith for one season together but during that time, we know the awful team that surrounded Joe in 2013, and he never had a reliable #3 receiving option at all. The OL was great in 2014 but that lasted only one year. Since 2013 we had added nothing of substance to the offense outside of a few linemen who have departed and not been effective till the last year of their deals.
Joe definitely deserves his fair share of critcism, but I think the F.O has done just as bad of a job managing the team as Joe has done on the field. That's just how I view it.
Also, in terms of him taking most of the responsibility because of his cap hit, well I would point to the cap numbers of Jimmy Smith, Brandon Williams, Tony Jefferson, among others because they have not lived up to their deals and it's hurting our pockets and ability to add talent when you don't get the investment you expect in return.
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redrum52
Hall of Famer
Bad drafting and bad luck. The only guys who did perform were paid and then either injured, kicked out the the league or traded to close family for a discount McRib. For the start of Flacco's contract the OL went to complete shit after the loss of Birk in 13. Half of Pitta's hip vanished with Thanos' snap and Rice decided to play Knockout Kings. Everything just happened at one time with money being dished out and crippled the team for years along with misses on that side of the ball. Flacco does need to play better, though.
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Word.
Tank
Hall of Famer
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
No man. He was never held accountable nor was his job under any pressure. That's why in his 11th year as a pro you can still see him throw head scratchers of Sam Darnold type.