Joe Flacco

[Willbacker]

I could definitely see this happening. I could also see several other teams interest in Joe.

But for those who are more in the know then I, I have a question:

1. How would a trade for Joe work? Do they work out a deal with a potential suitor first, then designate him a June 1 cut, or would they not cut him until after June 1? I know there is signing bonus money through 2020 but not sure who would be responsible for that in a trade situation.

We are responsible for all bonus money at least with Joe's contract and I'm hearing we gonna have 35 mil in cap space so I wouldn't do a June 1st but take the whole cap hit which still frees up 10 mil in money.

 

[rossihunter2]

I could definitely see this happening. I could also see several other teams interest in Joe.

But for those who are more in the know then I, I have a question:

1. How would a trade for Joe work? Do they work out a deal with a potential suitor first, then designate him a June 1 cut, or would they not cut him until after June 1? I know there is signing bonus money through 2020 but not sure who would be responsible for that in a trade situation.

there's no designations with a trade - in terms of salary cap purposes it's the same as if we cut him (before june-1st)

that signing bonus money has already been paid and is not new money so it's always on the Ravens's cap - it's dead cap space that will be on our books whether he plays for us or not - if we cut him we take that dead money on the cap now and save the 18.5m cash and around 10m cap space for 2019

functionally it would be as if he were cut and can happen literally at any point - although it cannot be official until the beginning of the league year which is normally sometime in march (and is also when free agency opens) - that's the only key difference between a cut and a trade - a cut/release can happen at any time in the year whereas there are official limits on trade windows

 

[RavensMania]

Flacco and Keanum seem like ideal Kubiak targets. I wouldn’t be surprised if either ended up in Denver and feel they both make a ton of sense. Definitely agree Flacco makes more sense in DEN than TB although I really like him in TB as a fit.

case Keenum is still under contract in Denver

 

[RavensMania]

I could definitely see this happening. I could also see several other teams interest in Joe.

But for those who are more in the know then I, I have a question:

1. How would a trade for Joe work? Do they work out a deal with a potential suitor first, then designate him a June 1 cut, or would they not cut him until after June 1? I know there is signing bonus money through 2020 but not sure who would be responsible for that in a trade situation.

no need for a june 1 since we will save 10.5m once he is traded or cut.

 

[Grim]

Isn't Keenum still under contract?

Ahh yeah I forgot. Somehow mixed the years up and thought he was a Viking there for a minute but that doesn’t make sense.

Joe won't make much sense there because Keenum is already a Bronco, with $21 mil cap hit for 2019.

Yeah, I forgot he was already a Bronco.

case Keenum is still under contract in Denver

I know.

 

[rossihunter2]

Joe won't make much sense there because Keenum is already a Bronco, with $21 mil cap hit for 2019.

they save 11m by cutting him - if they believe joe is an upgrade they can trade for him and against their cap if they got rid of keenum he would only cost them 7.5m on top of the savings they'd get for getting rid of keenum

now whether they want to spend that sort of money on joe or give up a pick/piece for him is by the by

but keenum's contract isnt really a prohibitive factor if they want joe in stead

 

[Tru11]

Elite players are the very best at their respective positions. Aaron Donald. Khalil Mack. Bobby Wagner. Julio Jones. Von Miller. Travis Kelce. Earl Thomas etc. See where I’m going? Would you REALLY put any of our players in the same category as those guys? Hell no. Yes @Lost_In_Translation CJ is a top 10 LB but top 10 at your position doesn’t make you a superstar. If there are players much better than you at your position you’re not elite. Elite players take over games. Almost never go unnoticed. There’s not a perfect mold for a superstar, you just know them when you see them. It’s really not a defined thing of course but you should just know? I don’t know what to tell you man.

Marlon could be on his way there but isn’t yet. CJ is very good but the threshold between him and the best at his position is too large. Tucker is a superstar, but a kicker, so sure you can count him. Yanda is the only non special teams player on our team that could be considered one of the very best.

Those guys go high in the draft.

Either your teams sucks and you will be picking high or you trade the house to move up or get lucky because the entire league had the wrong value on the player and you lucked out.

 

[SaltyDog]

there's no designations with a trade - in terms of salary cap purposes it's the same as if we cut him (before june-1st)

that signing bonus money has already been paid and is not new money so it's always on the Ravens's cap - it's dead cap space that will be on our books whether he plays for us or not - if we cut him we take that dead money on the cap now and save the 18.5m cash and around 10m cap space for 2019

functionally it would be as if he were cut and can happen literally at any point - although it cannot be official until the beginning of the league year which is normally sometime in march (and is also when free agency opens) - that's the only key difference between a cut and a trade - a cut/release can happen at any time in the year whereas there are official limits on trade windows

Hey thanks for that explanation. So basically what we save by cutting Joe is total cap number minus dead cap number = $10.5 mil. I thought that was the case but wasn’t sure what, if any, advantage there would be by cutting him before/after June 1. I always thought that that date determined what year the cap money was absorbed? Also, how does Joes trade value get determined in this situation?

 

[rossihunter2]

Hey thanks for that explanation. So basically what we save by cutting Joe is total cap number minus dead cap number = $10.5 mil. I thought that was the case but wasn’t sure what, if any, advantage there would be by cutting him before/after June 1. I always thought that that date determined what year the cap money was absorbed? Also, how does Joes trade value get determined in this situation?

A post June-1st designation would shit some of the dead cap to next year but also would mean we wouldn’t see any of the savings until June 2nd which makes the extra saving almost entirely pointless

In terms of trade value - that’s completely arbitrary and based on negotiation between front offices and honestly I have no idea what we’ll get for him

The fact that his contract would have no guarantees left if we traded him would be attractive - as would the first year 18.5m cap hit

But I’m not sure personally what value that equates to

 

[SaltyDog]

A post June-1st designation would shit some of the dead cap to next year but also would mean we wouldn’t see any of the savings until June 2nd which makes the extra saving almost entirely pointless

In terms of trade value - that’s completely arbitrary and based on negotiation between front offices and honestly I have no idea what we’ll get for him

The fact that his contract would have no guarantees left if we traded him would be attractive - as would the first year 18.5m cap hit

But I’m not sure personally what value that equates to

Yeah the trade thing is a bit puzzling to me. Obviously we would like to get something for him since we are going to cut him anyway, and I suppose the advantage for another team wanting to trade would be to get him on their roster as soon as possible, and avoid maybe losing him to another team. But how his value gets set in this situation is a mystery to me. I know with UFA there is a market value used as a guideline for teams to negotiate, but in this case I’m thinking in terms of draft pick(s) and have no idea how that value would get set.

 

[OriolesMagicPlease]

This thread:

 

[allblackraven]

Yeah the trade thing is a bit puzzling to me. Obviously we would like to get something for him since we are going to cut him anyway, and I suppose the advantage for another team wanting to trade would be to get him on their roster as soon as possible, and avoid maybe losing him to another team. But how his value gets set in this situation is a mystery to me. I know with UFA there is a market value used as a guideline for teams to negotiate, but in this case I’m thinking in terms of draft pick(s) and have no idea how that value would get set.

Trade value isn't set - it's between the teams and what they consider acceptable.
Some people would give 2nd round for Flacco if they were Elway, some other people would ask the Ravens to send the 3rd round pick with Flacco.

 

[SaltyDog]

Trade value isn't set - it's between the teams and what they consider acceptable.
Some people would give 2nd round for Flacco if they were Elway, some other people would ask the Ravens to send the 3rd round pick with Flacco.

I get what your saying but there has to be a limit to what teams are willing to give up. In a trade they will inherit $18.5 million in salary and give up draft pick(s) on top of that? If I’m the ravens I would certainly take what ever they would offer in draft picks, but if I’m the team who’s trying to get him why wouldn’t I just wait until he is released, sign him to a new deal, and save my draft pick(s)?

 

[rossihunter2]

I get what your saying but there has to be a limit to what teams are willing to give up. In a trade they will inherit $18.5 million in salary and give up draft pick(s) on top of that? If I’m the ravens I would certainly take what ever they would offer in draft picks, but if I’m the team who’s trying to get him why wouldn’t I just wait until he is released, sign him to a new deal, and save my draft pick(s)?

18.5m fully non-guaranteed for a starting qb is a bargain - a team has to like joe/still think of joe as a starter for this to be tradable but the contract itself would honestly be a help to his trade value rather than a hindrance

 

[allblackraven]

I get what your saying but there has to be a limit to what teams are willing to give up. In a trade they will inherit $18.5 million in salary and give up draft pick(s) on top of that? If I’m the ravens I would certainly take what ever they would offer in draft picks, but if I’m the team who’s trying to get him why wouldn’t I just wait until he is released, sign him to a new deal, and save my draft pick(s)?

What @rossihunter2 said ^^ plus team would want to have a new guy, QB in particular, as early as possible.
That said, I seriously don't think we'll get particularly high draft pick for Joe - there isn't much competition out there for QBs, teams that clearly need one will most likely draft.
Maybe Skins, if they need to give Smith more time to recover?

 

[Willbacker]

I get what your saying but there has to be a limit to what teams are willing to give up. In a trade they will inherit $18.5 million in salary and give up draft pick(s) on top of that? If I’m the ravens I would certainly take what ever they would offer in draft picks, but if I’m the team who’s trying to get him why wouldn’t I just wait until he is released, sign him to a new deal, and save my draft pick(s)?

Sometimes you don't want a player released becuz you gonna have competition for him and you have to dish out a signing bonus which would be significant for a starting QB.

What @rossihunter2 said ^^ plus team would want to have a new guy, QB in particular, as early as possible.
That said, I seriously don't think we'll get particularly high draft pick for Joe - there isn't much competition out there for QBs, teams that clearly need one will most likely draft.
Maybe Skins, if they need to give Smith more time to recover?

Would you give the keys to your offense to any of these rookies coming out this year? The goal is to get to the playoffs and for maybe a team like Jax they can draft a QB in the 1st and start Joe for a year or so and not have worries when they release him.

 

[SaltyDog]

18.5m fully non-guaranteed for a starting qb is a bargain - a team has to like joe/still think of joe as a starter for this to be tradable but the contract itself would honestly be a help to his trade value rather than a hindrance

Ok now it makes sense to me. If Joe were released a team would have to negotiate a new contract in which market value would come into play, and his value would certainly be somewhere north of $18.5 mil.

 

[allblackraven]

Would you give the keys to your offense to any of these rookies coming out this year? The goal is to get to the playoffs and for maybe a team like Jax they can draft a QB in the 1st and start Joe for a year or so and not have worries when they release him.

Depends on a rookie. I, personally, wouldn't give a pick for and pay that salary to Joe. Can sign someone for much less, keep the draft pick and have a similar result.

Not sure why so many people still believe that Joe can win consistently, after last several years.

 

[Willbacker]

Depends on a rookie. I, personally, wouldn't give a pick for and pay that salary to Joe. Can sign someone for much less, keep the draft pick and have a similar result.

Not sure why so many people still believe that Joe can win consistently, after last several years.

Joe did have a good start this year showing some glimpses of what he can be. I just keep looking at Jax as a great matchup with still having a strong D and a good RB but running all the teams thru my head I don't see very many matchups that we can deal with. Elway could be a wildcard and maybe Tenn or dare I say Cincy but if we could just get 2 teams that do get enamored I'm thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Grim]

Depends on a rookie. I, personally, wouldn't give a pick for and pay that salary to Joe. Can sign someone for much less, keep the draft pick and have a similar result.

Not sure why so many people still believe that Joe can win consistently, after last several years.

He did start well this season. I suppose you could make an argument that when the OL blocked well and the receivers caught the ball he looked great. I think the early games showed us the QB Joe was and then he just lost it. Maybe it was the hits, so if he goes somewhere I can see him hoping for a better OL and thinking they can turn him around. Denver makes the most sense with the Kubiak connection, but I don't know how true or false that narrative is. They do have some decent draft stock, so it can happen.