JAAM
Hall of Famer
I don’t think anyone wants their starting QB to fail. We’re just pointing out how bad he’s been these last few seasons. It’s OK to be critical of someone making the most money on his team.
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
Joe Flacco
- Thread starter ThatsMyJoeTerback
- Start date
of course but there comes a time when just ragging on someone the same way over and over again becomes annoying and a little tiring - like ive always stayed in the middle on flacco but this incessant attacking of him the same way every week without (seemingly) any acknowledgement of any other factors makes me want to defend him just as vehemently... in an argument where im actually on the fence
it would be different if we werent married to flacco for at least 1 more year and likely at least 2 more years but we are
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
It actually goes both ways - just two weeks ago fans who usually 'defend' Flacco were pretty quick to blame Perriman for not adjusting like "90 % of NFL receivers would" on what was atrocious pass to wide open WR (Steelers game). It wasn't enough to trust the eyes, took full frame-by-frame analysis of the play by Truth to get Perriman's critics to accept that "pass was not good but that some receivers would still catch the ball regardless". Same with INT on Sunday - Flacco underthrew that ball but Perriman is blamed for not changing direction 180 degrees and getting his ass on the turf to put the hands on the ball fast enough. Twenty other QBs hit Perriman right on the chin on that play, that's how open he was.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Good read for sure, I think not running in OT 3rd and 2 based on what had conspired previously in the game when passing was horrible. I was livid, and I wanted run before the play, this isn't hindsight. I've read from some a throw was missed on this play, I'd like to see it again
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
Flacco is going to get Perriman killed out there. The ball was underthrown and I am reading comments and articles that say it was a perfect pass....PERFECT PASS?
I am the biggest Flacco fan out there and have defended him to the ends of the Earth, HOWEVER, he is going to get Perriman murdered, this is not the first time he throws a bad ball his way that he needs to make some herculean effort to get to only leaving himself wide open for a viscous hit and no chance to protect himself
I think Joe defintiely short armed the throw to Perriman, but that's a really tough throw to fit it between two defenders down the sideline. He was trying to put it where only Perriman could get it.
On the same token, probably shouldn't throw it with the safety barreling downhill at your receiver.
On the same token, probably shouldn't throw it with the safety barreling downhill at your receiver.
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
And, the constant defense of Flacco without any acknowledgment of any other factors in his game play makes others want to expose him more vehemently as well. Obviously, this thing about Flacco goes both ways. Either you are for him for whatever reasons or you are against him for whatever reasons. It is what it is!
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Agree but now we're getting back to my observation that Flacco lacks confidence big time. Part of that are definitely receivers but there's practice field to sort that out. Sometimes I wonder what the hack are they working on during the week. I suspect the other part comes from Joe being conscious that he's making lot of bad decisions, short term memory getting longer I think.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Lol me too. Like wtf was happening in practice that had everyone so enamoured with Perriman?
I know the PR machine that is BR.com, etc.
I would love to know what they're doing in practice, no one ever gets open, draw something up. It's amazing we can't set something up to get Perriman in space, it's amazing. Let him catch a screen pass and run, it's crazy
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
Perriman is pure trash! This dude always seem to fall or go to the ground when attempting to catch a pass. It's ridiculous!
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
I feel embarrassed for thinking he could be something special
BloodRaven
Pro Bowler
At least we can move on from him, we can't move on from Flacco and his team killer contract for at least another two years.
Yeah, read that earlier in the week.
especially as these guys were getting open vs our secondary...
Tank
Hall of Famer
That’s something that was talked about before in this thread. Flacco, much like many QBs, has always played best when there is an up tempo, steady rhythm to the offense and play calling. Seems that has always helped breed confidence and success. With the way the offense and play calling are run now along with the failures at key moments in the game it seems his confidence suffers and things become forced and difficult.
I don’t think it would take any sort of super star performances to get things rolling again. If we could have a steady, up tempo and unpredictable flow to the play calling, decent play from the O line and RBs, and just have guys catch the damn ball there would be huge improvements in the offense and Flacco’s performance.
Last edited:
So, I would highly disagree with the idea that Tyreek Hill is a bonafide star and a superstar as a receiver. What made Hill special was his ability to be a superstar return man. But as a receiver? Hill was pretty much a big play threat that gained probably half his yards on like 15 or 20 catches. You can go back and look and he'll have like 90 yards in a game, but 50 will have come from one reception. Hill coming out was and still is pretty much an explosive threat that is not going to be a chain mover or someone you would consistently rely on to make these insane catches in tight coverage or display great hands.
But looking at year one and year two, nothing has really changed with Hill himself. As a receiver, he hasn't developed a super nuanced route tree or upped his hands to the point that he's making these vice grip catches in tight coverage. So we have to ask ourselves- why the drastic uptick in production? Alex Smith. If you watch Smith play, he's pushing the ball downfield more and challenging coverages more and he's doing it with startling accuracy. No, a quarterback can't run the routes for the receiver or work them open, but they can throw passes with accuracy into tight windows and put the ball in a place that makes the receivers job easier and that's exactly what Smith is doing with Hill. In six games, Hill is showing more than he did all last year and I don't think it's any coincidence that we see Hill have better stats with Smith having a drastic improvement in his game.
Can't really argue with Kelce, though. He's clearly a game breaker as a receiving tight end.
In the case of Brown, his rise was kinda unprecedented. He was a really raw receiver coming out that clearly put in a lot of work to be great, but who really saw Brown as a 110 receptions, 1500 yards type guy? He almost jumped 50 receptions and 800 yards in a single year. I think it would be naive to say that Brown would have the same type of stats here in Baltimore or would look as good as he does now if the Ravens drafted him.
So at that point, it's fair to say that it's entirely possible that Brown was developed by a better Steelers staff. So, we ask ourselves- does Brown look this good if Joe is a Steeler instead? Again, I say no. On the same token, Brown being a sixth round pick should have been a RFA after year three, so what if the Ravens put in an offer sheet and the Steelers don't match it? Does Brown go along to up his receptions by 44 and double his yardage? I really don't think so. Last year Joe threw the most passes in the NFL second to only Drew Brees (and that was due to the final game of the season), but the Ravens didn't have a single receiver in the top 10 for receptions, yards, or touchdowns. That just isn't right.
I think it's really easy to say that receivers aren't getting open and blame poor game planning, but the fact of the matter is that without the All-22, we just don't know. Against the Bears, with how well they played coverage, I don't think the receivers were getting open. But are they really struggling to get open in each and every single game that Joe struggles in? I find that hard to believe with the frequency that Joe has been struggling lately.
The idea that Joe dumping off means that no one was open is short sighted. Joe can dump off even with an open man. Most quarterbacks don't even get through all of their reads before they make the choice to dump off. There may be a time where Joe only looks to his right and never looks to the left even if a receiver is open on the left side of the field.
I think it's also really easy to blame the offensive coordinator for poor play design every time Joe struggles, but this has been a consistent issue with Cameron, Caldwell, Trestman, and Marty. I find it hard to believe that four coordinators never found a way to get the receivers open.
I also struggle to believe that a player like Jeremy Maclin, who was so productive with the Eagles and Chiefs, now struggles to get open when it wasn't an issue before. We'd be incredibly naive to think that the Ravens aren't watching tape of what worked in years past and trying to implement that in their game plans.
By the way, as an aside real quick, Watson may have had his best year in NO before coming to Baltimore, but he was a productive piece in NE and CLE before even going to NO. He was still an athletic and reliable piece.
Does the play calling suck at times? Yeah, it does. What was up with how little the Ravens ran play action? What was up with the total imbalance of pass to rush when the rushing attack was clearly the more effective strategy? Why did they throw it on 3rd and 2 when Allen had shown to be an incredibly tough runner who could pick up yardage? In that regards, it did suck. But I would encourage someone to pick out all the play calls they disliked, highlight why they disliked it, and then point what they would have done differently given the defensive personnel, down, and distance without using what coverage the defense ran as part of the reasoning.
At some point, we have to realize that Joe is the constant in all these years. Five coordinators, several different starting receivers, several different starting running backs, and several different starting tight ends, but Joe is the one constant and we're seeing the same struggles no matter who is at OC and who is catching the ball.
Militant X 1
Hall of Famer
Now this is an assessment about Flacco's game play that I can agree with. It coincides with what I have said numerous times. That Marty, like the previous O.C.'s not named Kubiak, has absolutely no idea or clue about how to properly utilize his personnel.
TheCity5
MVP
He admitted to failing the off-season following the SB and made an effort to upgrade with what was probably the best WR we have ever had in Steve Smith Sr. Also, With Torrey finishing the year with 1,000 yards, you just had to expect more from him with help on the other side. He also made an OL that was 2nd in the league to Dallas.
Look at 2014, we really didn't have a significant offense in terms of receiving talent but we had Steve Smith Sr., a #1 WR and Torrey Smith, a guy coming off a 1,000 yard season who would go on to significantly disappoint. We also didn't have much of a TE once Pitta went down, Owen Daniels is a nice player but he's not a starting caliber TE. We did have a tough run game but we were not overwhelming in terms of start power, our elite OL's were KO, Yanda, and Wagner. We really excelled in scheme, Gary Kubiak is flat out an offensive genius and he propelled our offense to do great things, I personally think he gets most of the credit for what happened. I personally think that if you have a coach who can scheme up protection and receivers being open, then you can mask the weaknesses of your offense. That, to go along with a QB who can just make players better and become a play-maker himself. We just don't have that.
Also, last season Kamar Aiken finished the year with 900 yards and you were getting Perriman back, add that to Steve Smith Sr. and Mike Wallace and anyone, including myself would have high expectations for this offense. It's unfortunate but that unit underperformed so badly that you just can't blame him all that much.
I understand that he's made some errors, but I think what happened to the OL was unfortunate and cannot be pinned on him, you just can't see any of that stuff coming. In terms of the WRs, I think Maclin was a great add and Mike Wallace still looks like a starting WR. I just personally believe that in large part, injuries, coaches, and QB haven't lived up to expectations, in fact they have underwhelmed significantly.
I don't think we have a bad group of receivers at all, I personally think we have issues in getting them involved and maximizing their potential.
TheCity5
MVP
You hit the nail on the hammer, It wasn't until this year when I started to question the fact that maybe Joe not adjusting his game could be a reason for this struggling offense. For years he's having the same issues, not progressing through his reads, throwing off his back foot, locking onto receivers, sometimes failing to pick up a blitz, and the overall mechanics of his game. You just wonder with the Ravens going through receiver after receiver, coach after coach, offensive linemen after offensive linemen, running back after running back, the only thing that remains is Joe and the flaws of his game.
We've seen every starting QB shake off the things that have followed them. Tom Brady and Pressure, Aaron Rodgers, and his ability as a pocket passer, Alex Smith and the deep ball, Big Ben and blitzes, Kirk Cousins and his decision making(Yes, he has improved immensely there). ect. We have even seen Carson Palmer, and Alex Smith take big steps into their career and put in an MVP season. It feels like for the past ten years Joe's game hasn't evolved, and I frankly do not think it ever will. I still see flaws in his game today that were flaws in his game five years ago. We still see the same Joe, him and his weaknesses are the one constant for the Ravens.
I just don't onow if Flacco will get better without accountability. All the coach speak and Flacco himself always put it as a team issue, not a Flacco issue.
Even all these articles are absolving him entirely of blame for the interception off of Moore. I already broke down why that's wrong.
But if we just make excuse after excuse, there is never a reason to get better.