Joe Flacco

[Sledge Hammer]

The offense is far from set. Wallace is declining. His deep play set up his game and he is 32 now. Not the roadrunner he once was. We played a lot of terrible offenses second half of season. The defense didn’t have to be dominant. Pees mixed coverage, squeezed receivers with dropping everybody back and waited for mistakes from terrible offenses and backup QBs. Which set the offense up with a short drive. That’s not gonna be the case next year. Collins isn’t sneaking up on anybody next year. You ignore the offense and see what happens. If anybody thinks the offense is almost set and only needs minor tweaking then no more excuses for joe if he sucks again next year. Remember this offense is good enough and You called Mike Wallace a legit WR. So if Joe sucks next year then there is no excuses cuz the offense is the so called strength of the team.

 

[rossihunter2]

So lets look at his production as a whole, 18tds 13ints and a QB rating of 80.4.

that's being deliberately facetious

 

[Adreme]

The offense is far from set. Wallace is declining. His deep play set up his game and he is 32 now. Not the roadrunner he once was. We played a lot of terrible offenses second half of season. The defense didn’t have to be dominant. Pees mixed coverage, squeezed receivers with dropping everybody back and waited for mistakes from terrible offenses and backup QBs. Which set the offense up with a short drive. That’s not gonna be the case next year. Collins isn’t sneaking up on anybody next year. You ignore the offense and see what happens. If anybody thinks the offense is almost set and only needs minor tweaking then no more excuses for joe if he sucks again next year. Remember this offense is good enough and You called Mike Wallace a legit WR. So if Joe sucks next year then there is no excuses cuz the offense is the so called strength of the team.

Oh there is no way the offense should be the strength of the team. I said draft/sign 1,legit starting guard and draft/sign 1 legit starting WR (if you don't resign Wallace then 2) and offense is top 10.

The defense rolling into next year should be better than that. A stacked secondary and some young LBs who should be improving basically screams top 5 defense easily.

The pessimists on this board, who mistake their pessimism for realism, dont see how close the team actually is. I trust Moore as a backup WR. I trust Wallace to be starting quality. I would like upgrades at TE but they take time to develop

 

[Sandtown]

Thats a familiar argument, maybe 6th time is the charm? But if all the blame is on length of tenure then that implies that Flaccos next OC (his 5th OC in 6 years) will not make a difference, correct?

I don't really hope for a 6th offensive coordinator for Joe Flacco at all and I just really want this offense to work. In 2016 The Ravens offense end up being ranked 17th overall with their passing game being ranked 12th and their run game being ranked 28th in the league. In 2017 their offense end up being ranked 27th overall with their passing game being ranked 29th but their run game improved to 11th. The difference from the 2016 and 2017 season is the receivers. Jeremy Maclin wasn't able to replace Steve Smith Sr(mainly due to health and lack of chemistry with Joe), Breshad Perriman wasn't able to build off from what he did in 2016, and Joe Flacco missed alot of important time from training camp and preseason due to a back injury.

Flacco also didn't seem to be fully healthy until later on in the season which would have been better if that had happened earlier . The Ravens could have really used that 12th overall passing game from their 2016 season to match up with their 11th overall run game of the 2017 season. It would have most likely won more games earlier on but of course that doesn't change the issues that the offense had player wise which is what I mentioned in my first paragraph. Now if The Ravens end up adding better talent to their receiver core to match up with potential healthy Joe Flacco then there's no doubt in my mind that this passing game can't be ranked just as good or better than it was in 2016. I also have no reason to doubt Greg Roman ability when it comes to the run game and I highly doubt The Ravens aren't going to add more talent to their offensive linemen as well.

Overall I think it's kind of clear that The Ravens have a good chance of making this offense work with Marty Mornhinweg calling the plays.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Oh there is no way the offense should be the strength of the team. I said draft/sign 1,legit starting guard and draft/sign 1 legit starting WR (if you don't resign Wallace then 2) and offense is top 10.

The defense rolling into next year should be better than that. A stacked secondary and some young LBs who should be improving basically screams top 5 defense easily.

The pessimists on this board, who mistake their pessimism for realism, dont see how close the team actually is. I trust Moore as a backup WR. I trust Wallace to be starting quality. I would like upgrades at TE but they take time to develop

By backup do u mean No.4 or or No.3 at best?? And dude Wallace is no longer starting caliber. He is a career No.2 that is 32. And he doesn’t have that blazing speed to set up his routes like he once did. He will be a yr older next year and a step slower again. He is a Name WR with diminishing skills. I’m not a pessimist to the team. I’m kinda an optimist. I believe there is opportunity to be a top 5 offense offense. But if management isn’t intelligent enough to take advantage of opportunity then the offense could bottom out again. Like for instance Marqise Lee is Uber talented!! Bortles is garbage. Marqise could be a stud with joe Flacco!! Management has to take advantage of that opportunity. Brice Butler knows he is better than a diminishing and slow but highly paid Dez Bryant. Uber skills!! Hungry and looking for opportunity. If ravens run with Wallace and Moore and a draft pick. And offense and joe suck next year. Then there’s no excuses for joe. You approved of the WRs. If the offense and team bottoms out excuses for joe isn’t gonna fly next offseason.

 

[Adreme]

By backup do u mean No.4 or or No.3 at best?? And dude Wallace is no longer starting caliber. He is a career No.2 that is 32. And he doesn’t have that blazing speed to set up his routes like he once did. He will be a yr older next year and a step slower again. He is a Name WR with diminishing skills. I’m not a pessimist to the team. I’m kinda an optimist. I believe there is opportunity to be a top 5 offense offense. But if management isn’t intelligent enough to take advantage of opportunity then the offense could bottom out again. Like for instance Marqise Lee is Uber talented!! Bortles is garbage. Marqise could be a stud with joe Flacco!! Management has to take advantage of that opportunity. Brice Butler knows he is better than a diminishing and slow but highly paid Dez Bryant. Uber skills!! Hungry and looking for opportunity. If ravens run with Wallace and Moore and a draft pick. And offense and joe suck next year. Then there’s no excuses for joe. You approved of the WRs. If the offense and team bottoms out excuses for joe isn’t gonna fly next offseason.

Being a No. 3 is what it means to be a backup yes so despite you not realizing it we agree on that.

Wallace was fineish last year and will be fineish this year. I am not a believer that teams need an ODB to win and teams with a top 5 WR seem to not win. I would rather have 2 2s and use money to bolster OLine.

The bigger need is TE but those take time to develop so drafting one won't help this year. Maybe sign Graham and draft one to groom could work but I am not stressed about it.

I will say this tgough, considering how good the defwnse is if that offense is top 5 the Racens are in the SB.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Didn’t say an odb to be successful. And most Super Bowl teams do have a legit No.1 or somebody on their way to becoming that. Show me a Super Bowl team with a32 yr old Wallace as their top option. Offense sucked. The top option doesn’t mean he should start. He was the best on a terrible pathetic unit. How many teams would Wallace even make. Nobody else wants him for a reason. If ravens count on Wallace and joe and offense stunk it up. Then nobody can make excuses next season or say the team is close to competing. But like I said ravens need take advantage of opportunity. 2014 was historical for WRs. Many went in later rounds that coulda went round2 in some drafts and are caught behind established playmakers and hungry for opportunity. Like Janis Brice Butler Marty Bryant Marqise got injured early and took a while to strut his skills. Graham is turning 32 and will be expensive cuz of the name. You are not getting the prolific Graham of 4 yrs ago. Your getting a name with diminishing skills. Idea is to get WRs that will get better with joe in the system in coming years. Not maybe one good year and turning 34 and slowing down as he acclimated to joe and system

 

[The Greek]

i a

The offense is far from set. Wallace is declining. His deep play set up his game and he is 32 now. Not the roadrunner he once was. We played a lot of terrible offenses second half of season. The defense didn’t have to be dominant. Pees mixed coverage, squeezed receivers with dropping everybody back and waited for mistakes from terrible offenses and backup QBs. Which set the offense up with a short drive. That’s not gonna be the case next year. Collins isn’t sneaking up on anybody next year. You ignore the offense and see what happens. If anybody thinks the offense is almost set and only needs minor tweaking then no more excuses for joe if he sucks again next year. Remember this offense is good enough and You called Mike Wallace a legit WR. So if Joe sucks next year then there is no excuses cuz the offense is the so called strength of the team.

i agree with you on collins. i am not sold on him. i have watched enough football over the years and have seen tons of one hit wonders. i hope he is the guy but if we have a chance at chubb in the 3rd i would really consider taking him.

 

[Sandtown]

The offense is far from set. Wallace is declining. His deep play set up his game and he is 32 now. Not the roadrunner he once was. We played a lot of terrible offenses second half of season. The defense didn’t have to be dominant. Pees mixed coverage, squeezed receivers with dropping everybody back and waited for mistakes from terrible offenses and backup QBs. Which set the offense up with a short drive. That’s not gonna be the case next year. Collins isn’t sneaking up on anybody next year. You ignore the offense and see what happens. If anybody thinks the offense is almost set and only needs minor tweaking then no more excuses for joe if he sucks again next year. Remember this offense is good enough and You called Mike Wallace a legit WR. So if Joe sucks next year then there is no excuses cuz the offense is the so called strength of the team.

I don't think anyone believes the offense is far from set but I also think it wouldn't be a good move for The Ravens to not bring Mike Wallace back unless Torrey Smith is available. Wallace may not be as fast as he used to be in his Steeler days but the guy still is one of the better deep threats in the league. He may be going on 32 years old in August but that shouldn't take away the fact that he averaged 14.4 yards per reception which probably would have been better if Joe Flacco was little more accurate with his deep passes and was better earlier on in the 2017 season instead of later.

If The Ravens are serious about doing whats right by Joe Flacco then I think they have to re-sign a receiver that he has had previous chemistry with regardless if they get their hands on a elite receiver.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I don't think anyone believes the offense is far from set but I also think it wouldn't be a good move for The Ravens to not bring Mike Wallace back unless Torrey Smith is available. Wallace may not be as fast as he used to be in his Steeler days but the guy still is one of the better deep threats in the league. He may be going on 32 years old in August but that shouldn't take away the fact that he averaged 14.4 yards per reception which probably would have been better if Joe Flacco was little more accurate with his deep passes and was better earlier on in the 2017 season instead of later.

If The Ravens are serious about doing whats right by Joe Flacco then I think they have to re-sign a receiver that he has had previous chemistry with regardless if they get their hands on a elite receiver.

Dude I promise you Wallace couldn’t break a sub 4.5 now if he were to try. He is nowhere near the roadrunner he once was. The ravens would be better served using that money on Marqise Lee and Brice Butler. Young fast skilled receivers looking for opportunity to prove to be NO.1 or top shelf No.2 WRs. AND players that will get BETTER next couple yrs while acclimating to joe and the system. Fans seem to get attached to players once he catches a football and ignore the options out there. Wallace was cut several times and unwanted on the market for a reason. The best option on a bottom 3 throwing attack doesn’t count for much. Only scenario he should come back is on a vet minimum and as a No.3 WR as his max!! Bringing him back as a starter is asking for a shitty offense AGAIN. Besides watch the younger faster Marqise Lee, Brice Butler and Paul Richardson and even Jeff Janis run compared to Wallace. Better yet watch Brice Butlers routes compared to Wallace!! Better than Wallace’s routes even in his prime!! And Marqise Lee is a prince of routes!! Bortles is garbage. Joe would unlock his potential. Then as fast as Brice Butler and Marqise Lee are. Paul Richardson is the fastest. I guess what I’m saying is ravens need speed but let’s get a speed WR for once that can actually run good routes and catch in traffic. How is it every ravens deep threat has to be a one dimensional player that runs garbage routes?? Is there anything wrong with having a speed receiver that is as good at tough catches in traffic and sidelines?? Every deep play receiver on ravens have to be one dimensional?? I dunno what ravens would want with Torrey Smith with all the receivers available.

 

[Sandtown]

Dude promise you Wallace couldn’t break a sub 4.5 now if he were to try. He is nowhere near the roadrunner he once was. The ravens would be better served using that money on Marqise Lee and Brice Butler. Young fast skilled receivers looking for opportunity to prove to be NO.1 or top shelf No.2 WRs. AND players that will get BETTER next couple yrs while acclimating to joe and the system. Fans seem to get attached to players once he catches a football and ignore the options out there. Wallace was cut several times and unwanted on the market for a reason. The best option on a bottom 3 throwing attack doesn’t count for much. Only scenario he should come back is on a vet minimum and as a No.3 WR as his max!! Bringing him back as a starter is asking for a shitty offense AGAIN. Besides watch the younger faster Marqise Lee, Brice Butler and Paul Richardson and even Jeff Janis run compared to Wallace. Better yet watch Brice Butlers routes compared to Wallace!! Better than Wallace’s routes even in his prime!! And Marqise Lee is a prince of routes!! Bortles is garbage. Joe would unlock his potential. Then as fast as Brice Butler and Marqise Lee are. Paul Richardson is the fastest. I guess what I’m saying is ravens need speed but let’s get a speed WR for once that can actually run good routes and catch in traffic. How is it every ravens deep threat has to be a one dimensional player that runs garbage routes?? Is there anything wrong with having a speed receiver that is as good at tough catches in traffic and sidelines?? Every deep play receiver on ravens have to be one dimensional?? I dunno what ravens would want with Torrey Smith with all the receivers available.

Hey if you feel like Mike Wallace isn't still fast then fine by me even though I disagree. Actually Mike Wallace was only cut one time ever in his career. He got traded to The Vikings by The Dolphins due to his attitude and etc. It really had nothing to do with his ability to be a deep threat and he got cut by The Vikings due to his lack of production which had everything to do with Teddy Bridgewater. I'm sure that part is obvious since Wallace has been more productive with Joe Flacco throwing the ball to him than Teddy Bridgewater. I have nothing against the younger receivers you mention but I still think it be wrong for The Ravens to not bring back a receiver that has been productive with Joe Flacco in the past. I mention Torrey Smith because the guy not only is a deep threat which is something The Ravens need but he been nothing but a play maker for The Ravens for most of his career. Unlike his last game with The Ravens against The Patriots in The Playoffs of 2014 he always shows up in big games. He actually showed up for The Eagles in the playoffs and Super bowl.

I would be shooked to see The Ravens have no interest in Torrey Smith he is available in free agency unless they re-sign Mike Wallace.

 

[Tank]

Hey if you feel like Mike Wallace isn't still fast then fine by me even though I disagree. Actually Mike Wallace was only cut one time ever in his career. He got traded to The Vikings by The Dolphins due to his attitude and etc. It really had nothing to do with his ability to be a deep threat and he got cut by The Vikings due to his lack of production which had everything to do with Teddy Bridgewater. I'm sure that part is obvious since Wallace has been more productive with Joe Flacco throwing the ball to him than Teddy Bridgewater. I have nothing against the younger receivers you mention but I still think it be wrong for The Ravens to not bring back a receiver that has been productive with Joe Flacco in the past. I mention Torrey Smith because the guy not only is a deep threat which is something The Ravens need but he been nothing but a play maker for The Ravens for most of his career. Unlike his last game with The Ravens against The Patriots in The Playoffs of 2014 he always shows up in big games. He actually showed up for The Eagles in the playoffs and Super bowl.

I would be shooked to see The Ravens have no interest in Torrey Smith he is available in free agency unless they re-sign Mike Wallace.

I’d take Torrey over Wallace.

Even if Mike is at full speed he’s inconsistent both in performance and effort.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Hey if you feel like Mike Wallace isn't still fast then fine by me even though I disagree. Actually Mike Wallace was only cut one time ever in his career. He got traded to The Vikings by The Dolphins due to his attitude and etc. It really had nothing to do with his ability to be a deep threat and he got cut by The Vikings due to his lack of production which had everything to do with Teddy Bridgewater. I'm sure that part is obvious since Wallace has been more productive with Joe Flacco throwing the ball to him than Teddy Bridgewater. I have nothing against the younger receivers you mention but I still think it be wrong for The Ravens to not bring back a receiver that has been productive with Joe Flacco in the past. I mention Torrey Smith because the guy not only is a deep threat which is something The Ravens need but he been nothing but a play maker for The Ravens for most of his career. Unlike his last game with The Ravens against The Patriots in The Playoffs of 2014 he always shows up in big games. He actually showed up for The Eagles in the playoffs and Super bowl.

I would be shooked to see The Ravens have no interest in Torrey Smith he is available in free agency unless they re-sign Mike Wallace.

You can disagree all u want it doesn’t make him fast at 32. Torrey made a couple plays against a shitty defense. So that’s your big WR move eh?? Resign mike Wallace or Torrey Smith?? Let’s highlight this this thread. Fine when Flacco sucks next year no excuses. You approved of mike Wallace as no.1 WR. No excuses for joe.

As for his speed. Dude nobody is as fast at 32 as 22. Not even close!! His big play days are over!! And he was never a route runner.Do yourself a favor go watch Wallace highlights with the Steelers then his 2017 highlights. His speed is night and day. Catch a couple of footballs in a ravens uniform and these fans sure do get themselves attached. When Marqise Lee and Brice Butler are tearing this league up with a real QB remember u wanted Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith. And if Flacco sucks then no excuses for him. You approved of the receivers a good options. Remember far tougher schedule next year.

 

[Sandtown]

You can disagree all u want it doesn’t make him fast at 32. Torrey made a couple plays against a shitty defense. So that’s your big WR move eh?? Resign mike Wallace or Torrey Smith?? Let’s highlight this this thread. Fine when Flacco sucks next year no excuses. You approved of mike Wallace as no.1 WR. No excuses for joe.

As for his speed. Dude nobody is as fast at 32 as 22. Not even close!! His big play days are over!! And he was never a route runner.Do yourself a favor go watch Wallace highlights with the Steelers then his 2017 highlights. His speed is night and day. Catch a couple of footballs in a ravens uniform and these fans sure do get themselves attached. When Marqise Lee and Brice Butler are tearing this league up with a real QB remember u wanted Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith. And if Flacco sucks then no excuses for him. You approved of the receivers a good options. Remember far tougher schedule next year.

I think you paying more attention to his age than his actually production but cool. I don't think I ever said anything about Wallace being The Ravens No .1 wide receiver. You also trying hard to make it seems like re-signing Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith is the only move I want The Ravens to make concerning the offense which isn't true at all. Let's be real here if The Ravens sign Marqise Lee or Brice Butler the offense will not be set. I don't see how any Ravens fans would want The Ravens to stop there. They will still need to do more for Joe Flacco and all I'm saying is is try to bring in a receiver that Flacco actually has some history with while they acted. I think that only helps Joe Flacco in the process of getting used to other receivers.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I think you paying more attention to his age than his actually production but cool. I don't think I ever said anything about Wallace being The Ravens No .1 wide receiver. You also trying hard to make it seems like re-signing Mike Wallace or Torrey Smith is the only move I want The Ravens to make concerning the offense which isn't true at all. Let's be real here if The Ravens sign Marqise Lee or Brice Butler the offense will not be set. I don't see how any Ravens fans would want The Ravens to stop there. They will still need to do more for Joe Flacco and all I'm saying is is try to bring in a receiver that Flacco actually has some history with while they acted. I think that only helps Joe Flacco in the process of getting used to other receivers.

No pun Dude but it sure sounds like you want Wallace to be the No.1. I mention Marqise and Brice Butler cuz are Uber talented in their PRIME that are being held back by shitty QBs and no opportunity. Brice knows he is better at this stage than Slow Dez Bryant. But Dez is making big money and is a name WR. Marqise is held back by Bortles a garbage QB. With joe he will greatly outplay what he will cost. He would explode with a good QB. He is a terrific route runner and can adjust and highpoint throws. A good consistent route runner is key to accuracy. Do I think Brady would be so accurate if he didn’t know where his receiver was gonna be open at and have full confidence he will get there if he leads him. Irritating when people say joe can’t lead a WR. Anybody that has ever played football should know a QB can’t throw a receiver open if he isn’t confident the WR will get there and make a play b4 the cornerback. A WRs routes have to be consistent. Routes must look same to defenses but his qb knows where he is going, where he will be and where he can get to. AND can create and get to his window consistent AND make the play. If the QB isn’t confident in all that then he can’t lead the receiver and throw him open. So let’s get joe some fast sudden fluid route runners like Marqise Lee Brice Butler Paul Richardson and watch him begin throwing some beautiful footballs

 

[The Greek]

Dude I promise you Wallace couldn’t break a sub 4.5 now if he were to try. He is nowhere near the roadrunner he once was. The ravens would be better served using that money on Marqise Lee and Brice Butler. Young fast skilled receivers looking for opportunity to prove to be NO.1 or top shelf No.2 WRs. AND players that will get BETTER next couple yrs while acclimating to joe and the system. Fans seem to get attached to players once he catches a football and ignore the options out there. Wallace was cut several times and unwanted on the market for a reason. The best option on a bottom 3 throwing attack doesn’t count for much. Only scenario he should come back is on a vet minimum and as a No.3 WR as his max!! Bringing him back as a starter is asking for a shitty offense AGAIN. Besides watch the younger faster Marqise Lee, Brice Butler and Paul Richardson and even Jeff Janis run compared to Wallace. Better yet watch Brice Butlers routes compared to Wallace!! Better than Wallace’s routes even in his prime!! And Marqise Lee is a prince of routes!! Bortles is garbage. Joe would unlock his potential. Then as fast as Brice Butler and Marqise Lee are. Paul Richardson is the fastest. I guess what I’m saying is ravens need speed but let’s get a speed WR for once that can actually run good routes and catch in traffic. How is it every ravens deep threat has to be a one dimensional player that runs garbage routes?? Is there anything wrong with having a speed receiver that is as good at tough catches in traffic and sidelines?? Every deep play receiver on ravens have to be one dimensional?? I dunno what ravens would want with Torrey Smith with all the receivers available.

i have no problem with butler or richardson becoming ravens but lee makes me nervous with some previous injury history in 14 &15 because we all know as soon as he signs with us his injury bug will return. he has a history with soft tissue injuries.

 

[RayRayRaven]

Thanx, I try to be funny. Or rather get them to think about it with a story.

I called Joe "high maintenance" ...spooky looking with just eye shadow. That was meant to mean he needs the whole shebang around him like we had from 2010-2012. We don't have that team no more and Joe is not elite. How many years does he need to prove it?

Even being High Maintenance (which means whole team) we are currently misusing what he does have. We gotta fire everybody. We have noone in that front office that understands how vulnerable Joe is. They can't get a good OC around him. Caldwell available? They just are misusing him at a comical level.

I tried to write an illustration at the old board called Ozzies Last Stand. Equating Oz with the ill fated 7th cavalry commander. It was glorious and really funny, but they didn't have a brain in their head there and I had to dumb myself down to their level for awhile. (The true story of Custers Last Stand is endlessly interesting) But suffice it to say, he made tactical mistakes, a critical error, (There was no last stand hill. Ole Ozzie...I mean Custer was long since dead when they dragged his lifeless carcass up that hill with the unit in disarray.)

Anyway, we are on the bad side of decision making. Been there for a long time. When we correct that manifest error, I'll point out what precipitated the decline and how I knew immediately that Oz must go and Harbaugh too. It's taken Bisciotti 6 years and I'm not certain he'll pull the trigger next year. If White Cow Bull, had been as hesitant Custer might have won that fight.

The brilliance of Kubiak kept our head above water that one year. Well, even with a phenom like Kubiak, I still believe he made a mistake with Jacoby Jones. He never liked Jones's reliability and Jones knew it and pressed. In the end we were in decline and handling Jones as he did was not a make or break issue as Ozze and Harballs were.

I liked your post RayRay. Good points. I think you are honest and levelheaded on what you think. Unbiased opinions. And your posts are always funny and interesting. I laugh anyways. However bear with me for a minute here. I know when a QB was highest paid at his position upon signing he should be the playmaker and make players better. I get it. His first big contract was what the team shoulda done. His extension not so much. But QBs average or not are paid like elite. Teams need to do something about that.

And I know joe needs players around him to perform. And I wanna thrash him at times. However if we think about it a minute.. it’s not like we are asking for Gronk and Julio Jones. I’m only saying give him a modern offense that actually looks like it belongs in this century dude. I mean only competent route runners in their prime. Weapons that will acclimate and grow with joe and the offense in year 2 with the team. As opposed to losing one more step in year 2 and wondering if he will be any good the next year as he is a year older. How much more speed will he lose. That isn’t something a QB should be worrying about with his receivers. He should be worrying about taking the next step as he and his weapons acclimate and Learn tendencies and routes and fakes. Not how much slower will he get lol. That is ridiculous!! And management should be thrashed for that!!

I’m not saying sign Landry and Robinson. Give Joe Marqise Lee and Brice Butler. Young skilled WRs looking for opportunity to be primary prolific players. And if those players don’t breakout or their numbers spike. If joe can’t help them hit their potential. I’ll thrash joe more than anybody. Like I said only a modern offense that belongs in the modern era. Every QB needs somebody. lol

 

[RayRayRaven]

The offense is far from set. Wallace is declining. His deep play set up his game and he is 32 now. Not the roadrunner he once was. We played a lot of terrible offenses second half of season. The defense didn’t have to be dominant. Pees mixed coverage, squeezed receivers with dropping everybody back and waited for mistakes from terrible offenses and backup QBs. Which set the offense up with a short drive. That’s not gonna be the case next year. Collins isn’t sneaking up on anybody next year. You ignore the offense and see what happens. If anybody thinks the offense is almost set and only needs minor tweaking then no more excuses for joe if he sucks again next year. Remember this offense is good enough and You called Mike Wallace a legit WR. So if Joe sucks next year then there is no excuses cuz the offense is the so called strength of the team.

To my eye this is a very insightful and succinct summary of the facts.

 

[BloodRaven]

Whats Joes production going to be this year?

 

[DeVito52]

Thanx, I try to be funny. Or rather get them to think about it with a story.

I called Joe "high maintenance" ...spooky looking with just eye shadow. That was meant to mean he needs the whole shebang around him like we had from 2010-2012. We don't have that team no more and Joe is not elite. How many years does he need to prove it?

Even being High Maintenance (which means whole team) we are currently misusing what he does have. We gotta fire everybody. We have noone in that front office that understands how vulnerable Joe is. They can't get a good OC around him. Caldwell available? They just are misusing him at a comical level.

I tried to write an illustration at the old board called Ozzies Last Stand. Equating Oz with the ill fated 7th cavalry commander. It was glorious and really funny, but they didn't have a brain in their head there and I had to dumb myself down to their level for awhile. (The true story of Custers Last Stand is endlessly interesting) But suffice it to say, he made tactical mistakes, a critical error, (There was no last stand hill. Ole Ozzie...I mean Custer was long since dead when they dragged his lifeless carcass up that hill with the unit in disarray.)

Anyway, we are on the bad side of decision making. Been there for a long time. When we correct that manifest error, I'll point out what precipitated the decline and how I knew immediately that Oz must go and Harbaugh too. It's taken Bisciotti 6 years and I'm not certain he'll pull the trigger next year. If White Cow Bull, had been as hesitant Custer might have won that fight.

The brilliance of Kubiak kept our head above water that one year. Well, even with a phenom like Kubiak, I still believe he made a mistake with Jacoby Jones. He never liked Jones's reliability and Jones knew it and pressed. In the end we were in decline and handling Jones as he did was not a make or break issue as Ozze and Harballs were.

So please, tell me who doesn’t need “the whole shebang”? Who isn’t high maintenance? Who wins without good weapons? I’ll wait. Because you won’t have an answer.

No joe is not elite. Everyone knows that. But to blame him for needing good weapons to win is so fucking stupid that honestly it desolidifies your argument right there.