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The WR Thread



I kept seeing the same problem show up in his 2017 film. Im not sure hes taking it very seriously either after listening to his combine presser. Had a sarcastic remark when he mention someone told him he has bad catching technique
 
Ravensnation5220 said:


I kept seeing the same problem show up in his 2017 film. Im not sure hes taking it very seriously either after listening to his combine presser. Had a sarcastic remark when he mention someone told him he has bad catching technique
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courtland sutton is next on my list after christian kirk
 
so i just got done on the kirk tape - he's not got incredible timed speed but my god he looks lightning quick vs opposition defences - and he's absolutely a big-game type receiver

he's so good against press and is so sudden that he doesnt have to run the greatest routes to get wide open - id like to see better route running because while he's sudden he's not sharp on his breaks and his stems can be a little hit-or-miss - but he does find the soft spot in the zone pretty well

he's got really nice soft hands too which helps and excellent feet - and has brilliant balance

he's moved up to the 4th receiver on my board for all teams but i worry about his fit with the ravens though...
can someone explain what they would envision from him in the ravens offence please - im struggling to see what his role would be (not that there wouldnt be one just that im struggling to see what it is outside of him being a great playmaker)?
 
@rossihunter2

First of all, I appreciate Cain being linked with my name. He's my guy through and through. I'll die on this hill if I have to.

I think his release is elite and helps him get leverage on the DB. Once he has that, he is an expert at taking advantage of it and adjusting to the thrown ball.

I particularly appreciate that he is active with his hands to keep a clean area for the ball to arrive and prevent the CB from putting his hands on the ball.

He pairs that with great body control and confidence to get the football even on difficult situations.

All around he can get the ball against any type of coverage and on any type of throw.
Overall he's an athletic and savvy guy with extreme confidence. I don'r know what to ask for beside that.
 
rossihunter2 said:
so i just got done on the kirk tape - he's not got incredible timed speed but my god he looks lightning quick vs opposition defences - and he's absolutely a big-game type receiver

he's so good against press and is so sudden that he doesnt have to run the greatest routes to get wide open - id like to see better route running because while he's sudden he's not sharp on his breaks and his stems can be a little hit-or-miss - but he does find the soft spot in the zone pretty well

he's got really nice soft hands too which helps and excellent feet - and has brilliant balance

he's moved up to the 4th receiver on my board for all teams but i worry about his fit with the ravens though...
can someone explain what they would envision from him in the ravens offence please - im struggling to see what his role would be (not that there wouldnt be one just that im struggling to see what it is outside of him being a great playmaker)?
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We need, and by we I mean Baltimore Ravens, to start scouting receivers on their abilities, not on how they would fit in our half-dimensional offense. Next drafted WR will be here for at least 4 years, HC, OC and QB not so much.
 
Jacquouille said:
@rossihunter2

First of all, I appreciate Cain being linked with my name. He's my guy through and through. I'll die on this hill if I have to.

I think his release is elite and helps him get leverage on the DB. Once he has that, he is an expert at taking advantage of it and adjusting to the thrown ball.

I particularly appreciate that he is active with his hands to keep a clean area for the ball to arrive and prevent the CB from putting his hands on the ball.

He pairs that with great body control and confidence to get the football even on difficult situations.

All around he can get the ball against any type of coverage and on any type of throw.
Overall he's an athletic and savvy guy with extreme confidence. I don'r know what to ask for beside that.
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honestly i dont see evidence of that release on the film ive seen - i agree that once he beats press he's difficult to deal with but i dont see him beat press (at least quickly) that often

i didnt consider the hands in space stuff but he's definitely great with the ball in the air (great on contested catches or what should be contested catches and fades and stuff) but i dont see sharpness on tape that i think he needs to have and i dont see the route running savvy to see him causing good press corners a problem - i dont think hes a wr that's going to scare corners and so they wont give him cushion (which is when i think he's at his best - exploiting the fear of opposing corners)
 
allblackraven said:
We need, and by we I mean Baltimore Ravens, to start scouting receivers on their abilities, not on how they would fit in our half-dimensional offense. Next drafted WR will be here for at least 4 years, HC, OC and QB not so much.
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im not saying he doesnt fit - im just saying i cant see it - as much as you just want the best player in a vacuum you cant ignore scheme fit entirely when evaluating... he's still 25th on my board but im just worried about his usage in our offence that's all

id be happy to have him here i just see more obvious fit with other players
 
rossihunter2 said:
im not saying he doesnt fit - im just saying i cant see it - as much as you just want the best player in a vacuum you cant ignore scheme fit entirely when evaluating... he's still 25th on my board but im just worried about his usage in our offence that's all

id be happy to have him here i just see more obvious fit with other players
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What I'm saying is you don't see fit in our offense, which implies Flacco for next 4 years. We should close that book and start drafting for the future with different QB.
 
allblackraven said:
What I'm saying is you don't see fit in our offense, which implies Flacco for next 4 years. We should close that book and start drafting for the future with different QB.
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i guess im more thinking of marty (and harbs and ozzie) more than flacco in terms of lack of fit - if im honest im just worried about us not running interior-featured routes out of the slot or running primary reads from the slot or good usage

as much as i want to forget about this year i cant just ignore the system we already run
 
rossihunter2 said:
i guess im more thinking of marty (and harbs and ozzie) more than flacco in terms of lack of fit - if im honest im just worried about us not running interior-featured routes out of the slot or running primary reads from the slot or good usage

as much as i want to forget about this year i cant just ignore the system we already run
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I'm pretty sure we're mostly unfair to Marty - pass catchers definitely played their part in making offense suck but there's lot to be desired from QB when watching Flacco.
 
allblackraven said:
I'm pretty sure we're mostly unfair to Marty - pass catchers definitely played their part in making offense suck but there's lot to be desired from QB when watching Flacco.
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i wasnt talking about execution though - just scheme - that's all - it's not a huge part of the evaluation i was just looking for someone to describe how they see him fitting in THIS year's offence (regardless of whether the same system survives another year)
 
Flacco is not only a liability on the field he's also become a liability for us trying to lure FA's
if we had a good QB we could have even have been given a discount by players based on their belief in the QB.

No one believes in Joe Flacco anymore and for good reason. He's a bottom tier QB.
 
rossihunter2 said:
i wasnt talking about execution though - just scheme - that's all - it's not a huge part of the evaluation i was just looking for someone to describe how they see him fitting in THIS year's offence (regardless of whether the same system survives another year)
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I totally understand.
Just think that you should look at WR in terms of what he can do, rather than of what he can do in our present 'scheme'.
 
allblackraven said:
I totally understand.
Just think that you should look at WR in terms of what he can do, rather than of what he can do in our present 'scheme'.
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that's why he's still 25th on my board at the moment - its a part of my evaluation (normally the last part) nothing more - that's all - im interested in what other people think of his usage and scheme fit because it might illuminate something i didnt notice on tape or something that might make me rethink other parts of my evaluations - its the cherry rather than than the cake
 
ok im struggling with courtland sutton because this clap catching is an issue but he doesnt do it all the time - i just watched the tulane game and i saw one clap catch (it was a great catch) but i saw multiple brilliant catches - like at least 2 spectacular catches that i think the might be the only player in the class who can make them

so its a tough evaluation so far...

and ive watched some more - im noticing that the 2016 tape has a lot more hand clapping than the 2017 tape - im watching the north texas game and he had 1 concentration drop that hit him in the numbers when hed already started looking upfield but he highpointed the ball with good technique multiple times and the ball did not shift in his hands an iota (same with the tulane game)

im gonna purposefully try and find the awful statistical games for sutton in 2017 and see if i can find anything different to these games where he's exploded

i was worried by the film breakdown @Italian Raven made and the video posted that i would find it hard watching him catch but from the 2017 film im watching im seeing great catching technique and not the number of drops i thought id find - ill report back after i watch the TCU and memphis games
 
in the TCU film - sutton gets double and triple teamed - 7 targets, 1 catch 0 yards - 1 drop that he had to OPI just to get a chance to catch it, 5 uncatchable balls (including one where he was wide open for a deep td but was overthrown - most were just thrown out of bounds though) and 1 catch at the LoS - im just throwing that film out - there's literally nothing to be learned from it really at all (except that he can seem frustrated when he's being frustrated)

in the Memphis film - ive got him for 2 DPIs (that were called) and one incredible 35 yard td grab with a man draped all over hip, and 5 uncatchable balls going his way - he had one target which i guess is technically a missed catch but it was good tight coverage that forced the ball out (not really a drop), he had another big reception pulled back on a whistle but he'd clean beaten his man and caught the ball before the whistles even affected the play, another underthrown ball that he should have attacked (and would have drawn another DPI) but he didnt come back to the underthrown ball and it hit the defender in the back (he was open down the sideline if the ball was thrown in front of him though )

ermm... this is not what i was expecting from the deep dive on sutton (had previously watched a lot of tape of him catching stuff awkwardly) but ironically watching his worst film (as well as the other extreme) has suddenly made him feel like a much less risky prospect on a skills basis - and im not sure im that worried about the catch technique like i was - this film session has done wonders for him on my big board in terms of his floor

i still worry about his ability to separate against quicker corners... i feel like they're gonna cause him a lot of problems at the nfl and he's gonna struggle to separate
 
Kirk would be perfect in the slot with Crabtree and John brown outside. Plus he’ll automatically be our return specialist. If he makes it out the first round, I hope Ozzie make some calls before the 2nd day starts and move up.
 
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