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Week 2 Discussion (it's still happening)

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
It's better to have the info now than later. So it makes sense to go for two. There is no disadvantage to go for two in this scenario.
It would be more of a mental pressure type thing.
The reality is you still need a TD, and you need a PAT and an 2PC. So its either PAT now, 2 point conversion later, or vice versa.

If you take the PAT now, you're playing your next defensive drive knowing that its a one score game (though you need a 2PC). If you go for 2 now and miss it, now you're looking at 2 scores instead of 1, though with more time to do it. But it will somewhat change the way you defend.

Since you still need both, its largely irrelevant which one you take at which time, because if you fail to convert either, it means you still need a FG (or Safety) to get back in it.

The premise of favoring the 2PC is largely based on the percentages of people converting 2 PC's, compared to the percentages of converting PAT's. I would imagine that when PAT's were 17 yard kicks, this scenario may have flipped, with the idea of delaying the 2PC until you really needed it. With the PAT being pushed back, and a sharp increase in the number of misses, it tends to favor teams going for it more often.
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
It would be more of a mental pressure type thing.
The reality is you still need a TD, and you need a PAT and an 2PC. So its either PAT now, 2 point conversion later, or vice versa.

If you take the PAT now, you're playing your next defensive drive knowing that its a one score game (though you need a 2PC). If you go for 2 now and miss it, now you're looking at 2 scores instead of 1, though with more time to do it. But it will somewhat change the way you defend.

Since you still need both, its largely irrelevant which one you take at which time, because if you fail to convert either, it means you still need a FG (or Safety) to get back in it.

The premise of favoring the 2PC is largely based on the percentages of people converting 2 PC's, compared to the percentages of converting PAT's. I would imagine that when PAT's were 17 yard kicks, this scenario may have flipped, with the idea of delaying the 2PC until you really needed it. With the PAT being pushed back, and a sharp increase in the number of misses, it tends to favor teams going for it more often.
Sorry but I disagree here. First in all outcomes you need to stop their offense to win the game. If you take the PAT first you still need 8 points. An important aspect here is pace. How are you going to play after you take the PAT? Hurry up and get the 2PC? But you unfortunately you left too much time on the clock for the Falcons to score again. Or you slow down the pace and get the TD just in time, but you fail to convert the 2PC and ultimately lose the game.
If you try the 2PC first and you convert it then you know you only have to score a TD and PAT. But if you fail to convert it, you know that you need an additional drive and this allows you to adjust accordingly. That's why this information is so valuable.
A guy on twitter made this analogy: "Let's say you get a raise if your performance at work is better than your coworker at end of year. Would you rather have feedback from your boss with 3 months to spare, or with 3 minutes?" -->You want that feedback on what you need to do for the rest of the year (game) as early as possible.

Sorry about the PFF article but it showed that his declining arm strength is costing the Saints plays that were automatic in the past. It could be just a bad start and Brees might be his old self again once Thomas returns, but if he can't then Winston definitly has to take over.
Winston made (or still makes?) a lot of mistakes but I don't know how he managed to play pro football if he needed LASIK surgery. I mean he's at least capable of making all the throws which Brees hasn't so far this season. Which basically means throws for more than 5+ yards.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Winston made (or still makes?) a lot of mistakes but I don't know how he managed to play pro football if he needed LASIK surgery. I mean he's at least capable of making all the throws which Brees hasn't so far this season. Which basically means throws for more than 5+ yards.

i think the thing is brees's arm doesnt look like its able to make the full range of throws to make that offence dangerous - through 2 games he's looking a lot like 2015 peyton manning

jameis is error-prone and that wont change with lasik but he'll at least give that receiving group a chance and they'll ironically be able to open up more of the offence
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
i think the thing is brees's arm doesnt look like its able to make the full range of throws to make that offence dangerous - through 2 games he's looking a lot like 2015 peyton manning

jameis is error-prone and that wont change with lasik but he'll at least give that receiving group a chance and they'll ironically be able to open up more of the offence
Regaining your sight is a game changer (I'm speaking from my own experiences lol)
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Sorry but I disagree here. First in all outcomes you need to stop their offense to win the game. If you take the PAT first you still need 8 points. An important aspect here is pace. How are you going to play after you take the PAT? Hurry up and get the 2PC? But you unfortunately you left too much time on the clock for the Falcons to score again. Or you slow down the pace and get the TD just in time, but you fail to convert the 2PC and ultimately lose the game.
If you try the 2PC first and you convert it then you know you only have to score a TD and PAT. But if you fail to convert it, you know that you need an additional drive and this allows you to adjust accordingly. That's why this information is so valuable.
A guy on twitter made this analogy: "Let's say you get a raise if your performance at work is better than your coworker at end of year. Would you rather have feedback from your boss with 3 months to spare, or with 3 minutes?" -->You want that feedback on what you need to do for the rest of the year (game) as early as possible.

Sorry about the PFF article but it showed that his declining arm strength is costing the Saints plays that were automatic in the past. It could be just a bad start and Brees might be his old self again once Thomas returns, but if he can't then Winston definitly has to take over.
Winston made (or still makes?) a lot of mistakes but I don't know how he managed to play pro football if he needed LASIK surgery. I mean he's at least capable of making all the throws which Brees hasn't so far this season. Which basically means throws for more than 5+ yards.
And I don't think he's capable of making those throws. I think he's capable of throwing the ball further than Brees, but not accurately. No franchise is just going to assume that because he got Lasik surgery he'll all of the sudden become significantly more accurate with the football.

The Saints have enough talent on their roster to win a bunch of games with a QB who just doesn't turn the ball over and makes accurate throws, which is what Brees is. They're far from the kind of team that can recover from a 2,3,4 turnover game, which Winston would almost certainly have multiple times.

I think there's plenty of viability in suggesting the Saints should replace Brees. It just isn't with anybody on their roster currently and I can't see it happening this year.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
And I don't think he's capable of making those throws. I think he's capable of throwing the ball further than Brees, but not accurately. No franchise is just going to assume that because he got Lasik surgery he'll all of the sudden become significantly more accurate with the football.

The Saints have enough talent on their roster to win a bunch of games with a QB who just doesn't turn the ball over and makes accurate throws, which is what Brees is. They're far from the kind of team that can recover from a 2,3,4 turnover game, which Winston would almost certainly have multiple times.

I think there's plenty of viability in suggesting the Saints should replace Brees. It just isn't with anybody on their roster currently and I can't see it happening this year.
They just need to use taysom hill aka the ultimate upgrade from Lamar Jackson
 
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