Quarterback thread

[DeVito52]

there's some media hesitancy around rosen because it seems they are all hearing a lot of things from coaching staffs that dont like his attitude necessarily and think he's a pain - but they have to weigh that against some of the dinosaurs who are still coaching in the league for some reason

rosen's an independent thinker who embodies a lot of the characteristics that a lot of the old-timer coaches who are just about holding on to their jobs (for some reason) hate - i think its telling that the best "old" coordinators are themselves independent thinkers and that almost all of the best coordinators and coaches in the league are innovative thinkers about the game - id suspect strongly that none of those innovative thinkers are going to see any problems with rosen

let's be honest, rosen has the best tape of all the qbs, its not like he's weak armed either - his arm doesnt pop off film like allen and darnolds but what's undersold is that rosen had the best downfield passing of any qb in college last year - the only thing that is supposedly holding him back is his character

but im not sure how sold i am on that idea

the only thing i can legitimately see worrying teams with any sense is his history of a couple of concussions and slightly narrower frame - that's it - he's the closest thing ive seen to an andrew luck type grade on a qb since luck

DJ himself seems to be criticising him for his lack of off-script success but as much as that helps and as much as the position has changed the bread and butter of the league is still in rhythm, in the pocket, almost monotonous quarterbacking a la tom brady, peyton manning, phillip rivers, drew brees, big ben (who's improved since he stopped relying on escapability), matt ryan, matthew stafford, jimmy g, kirk cousins and more...

all of these guys may do flashy things but they are at their best and most difficult to defend when they are in rhythm in the pocket being almost boring

we'll see which organisations are the trash organisations by how many teams pass on rosen

One of the biggest problems I’ve seen people have with Rosen is that he took a real beating in college and his past injuries/potential future injuries are a real concern.

 

[rossihunter2]

One of the biggest problems I’ve seen people have with Rosen is that he took a real beating in college and his past injuries/potential future injuries are a real concern.

yeah i mentioned the concussions issues and narrower frame issues
but when the only negative on you is that you might get injured in the pros whereas everyone else at your position has significant problems in some aspect then you should 100% be rated higher when those injuries arent a potentially degenerative pre-existing problem

i only see concussions really as a potential problem

 

[Simba]

I'm super excited to see where all of these QBs go next week. So many differing opinions on these guys and it seems like the same is holding true in NFL circles as well, if it's not all smokescreen of course. It makes the draft exciting.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm super excited to see where all of these QBs go next week. So many differing opinions on these guys and it seems like the same is holding true in NFL circles as well, if it's not all smokescreen of course. It makes the draft exciting.

ive spent most of today going through various rumours and podcasts (that are discussing rumours) and trying to work out what's smokescreen, what makes sense, what could well be true and what lots of outlets seem to be getting at the same time... im using it to fill in a mock draft

there's a lot of interesting things that would lead to an interesting draft day - i might have to post them all in a separate thread

 

[Ravensnation5220]

ive spent most of today going through various rumours and podcasts (that are discussing rumours) and trying to work out what's smokescreen, what makes sense, what could well be true and what lots of outlets seem to be getting at the same time... im using it to fill in a mock draft

there's a lot of interesting things that would lead to an interesting draft day - i might have to post them all in a separate thread

Please do, this would be interesting to see. I feel like more rumors have gotten out this year than previous years

 

[allblackraven]

Please do, this would be interesting to see. I feel like more rumors have gotten out this year than previous years

It's been a long time since the QB class was this good and this many teams with high draft picks needed one.

 

[Ravensnation5220]

It's been a long time since the QB class was this good and this many teams with high draft picks needed one.

This is also true. I feel lime theres a lot riding on this draft class for a bunch of teams. If they screw this one up it could set them back for many years.....that includes us im afraid

 

[Oldfaithful]

One of the biggest problems I’ve seen people have with Rosen is that he took a real beating in college and his past injuries/potential future injuries are a real concern.

Avid pac 12 watcher and it’s not even funny. This is the truest statement I’ve seen. He had no oline, which lead to no running game, meaning he had to pass more which led to more sacks and him getting killed.

Honestly... just looking at these QBs. Four guys with first round grades here from me. We draft Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, Mayfield you won’t hear a single complaint from me. This is the best class in a long time.

But even though you have three likely franchise QBs in that group of four(Jackson is very much a wildcard but one I really like).... Rosen is clear cut the best and it’s not even close. If you give him a team with a decent offensive line and he starts immediately he has the potential to take a team to the playoffs if they can protect him adequately. Rosen has the potential to become an elite QB and he and Wentz are easily the two best prospects we’ve had since Luck. Darnold, Jackson, and Mayfield all look to be SB caliber QBs at their max potential. Which is all you need.

 

[rossihunter2]

Avid pac 12 watcher and it’s not even funny. This is the truest statement I’ve seen. He had no oline, which lead to no running game, meaning he had to pass more which led to more sacks and him getting killed.

Honestly... just looking at these QBs. Four guys with first round grades here from me. We draft Darnold, Rosen, Jackson, Mayfield you won’t hear a single complaint from me. This is the best class in a long time.

But even though you have three likely franchise QBs in that group of four(Jackson is very much a wildcard but one I really like).... Rosen is clear cut the best and it’s not even close. If you give him a team with a decent offensive line and he starts immediately he has the potential to take a team to the playoffs if they can protect him adequately. Rosen has the potential to become an elite QB and he and Wentz are easily the two best prospects we’ve had since Luck. Darnold, Jackson, and Mayfield all look to be SB caliber QBs at their max potential. Which is all you need.

this is what ive been saying all along - i dont think his frame is an issue and his attitude/character/intelligence certainly isnt an issue (should be regarded as a major plus to be honest) - the only issue i have with him and its more a concern than an issue because as fans we dont have all the info but the only potential problem is the concussions and that's it - that's my only concern and its only a concern because i dont know the medicals around his concussions and what teams' medical staffs see (but they cant be that bad given that he wasnt flagged for a recheck at the combine)

 

[rossihunter2]

Via Warren Sharp on twitter - here are Brian Billick's thoughts on evaluating qbs through an autopsy of his attempts to find a franchise qb with the ravens... (the pictures attached to the tweet are Billick's words):

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/988503316807274496

obviously this has relevance when discussing the 2 qbs who are most often described as inaccurate - Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson

 

[JO_75]

Some interesting tidbits before Thursday. Dan Patrick has come out and said that the Browns are deciding between Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield as the number one overall pick. According to Rich Cimini of ESPN, the Jets are choosing between Mayfield and Josh Rosen. For the Browns it makes sense, John Dorsey has raved about Mayfield publicly for a while, and for Josh Allen Todd Haley could see him as his Big Ben in his offense.

If the Browns go Mayfield then it may be safe to say they go Rosen at 3 with Allen or Danold, maybe both falling come Thursday Night.

 

[Ravensnation5220]

Some interesting tidbits before Thursday. Dan Patrick has come out and said that the Browns are deciding between Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield as the number one overall pick. According to Rich Cimini of ESPN, the Jets are choosing between Mayfield and Josh Rosen. For the Browns it makes sense, John Dorsey has raved about Mayfield publicly for a while, and for Josh Allen Todd Haley could see him as his Big Ben in his offense.

If the Browns go Mayfield then it may be safe to say they go Rosen at 3 with Allen or Danold, maybe both falling come Thursday Night.

Im honestly just not as big a fan of Darnold as most are. Most pundits say Darnold is sure fire #1. But it would shock me if they picked Mayfeild...really would

 

[UKRaven]

I honestly think on Thursday one of the big 4 QBs will fall to the Bills at 12 (assuming there is no trades to get in front).

CLE and NYJ are nailed on top pick at 1 and 3, I think the Giants wont go QB and the Broncos might take one...and then 1 faller.

Just be interesting to see then if someone like 49ers gets a good offer to jump infront of the Bills, maybe Arizona or New Orleans?

Can't wait for it now! going to be so interesting this year

 

[rossihunter2]

Some interesting tidbits before Thursday. Dan Patrick has come out and said that the Browns are deciding between Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield as the number one overall pick. According to Rich Cimini of ESPN, the Jets are choosing between Mayfield and Josh Rosen. For the Browns it makes sense, John Dorsey has raved about Mayfield publicly for a while, and for Josh Allen Todd Haley could see him as his Big Ben in his offense.

If the Browns go Mayfield then it may be safe to say they go Rosen at 3 with Allen or Danold, maybe both falling come Thursday Night.

there's no way the browns are still deciding - they've definitely known who they're gonna pick at 1 for a while now
and there's no way 1 random scout source with no affiliation to any of those organisations knows what those first 3 organisations are doing

this stinks of smokescreen attempts to me

but this is what the full contents of the dan patrick source said:

browns like allen and mayfield
giants owners like barkley, rest of the organisation likes darnold
jets like darnold and rosen

but i dont believe any of that at all apart from maybe the giants stuff

 

[rossihunter2]

I honestly think on Thursday one of the big 4 QBs will fall to the Bills at 12 (assuming there is no trades to get in front).

CLE and NYJ are nailed on top pick at 1 and 3, I think the Giants wont go QB and the Broncos might take one...and then 1 faller.

Just be interesting to see then if someone like 49ers gets a good offer to jump infront of the Bills, maybe Arizona or New Orleans?

Can't wait for it now! going to be so interesting this year

there's gonna be trades - the bills cant afford not to get their guy so they're gonna find a trade partner to move up

giants are still a mystery to me but i still think they've fucked up if they dont either take the qb or trade down for a kings ransom

colts are also looking to trade down for sure which might be a vehicle for the bills/cardinals (or another team) to jump up - those teams cant let the qb prospects get to the 10th pick because then there's a clear way for late round qb wanting teams to get up - the saints could make the same trade the chiefs made last year (2 firsts and a 3rd) to get to the 10th pick and ahead of the dolphins (and bills if they havent moved up) but the pats would be in range, the chargers would be in range (if they were that way inclined) and the cardinals would most definitely be in range if they hadnt moved up yet - the bills cant afford to wait on qb

 

[rossihunter2]

as a proviso to the above - schefter has just tweeted similar:

"Just to add a bit more murkiness to top of draft: one NFL executive said this morning that Baker Mayfield is “definitely” in Cleveland’s conversation to become the No. 1 overall pick."

but the timing seems weird - there should be no way the browns dont know who they're picking yet so this again feels like smoke screens

 

[rossihunter2]

and here's more: peter king has a trusted source who normally "gets things right" who says allen's not in the discussion and it's 100% darnold

browns beat guys think allen wasnt in the discussion in the first place and that its been between darnold and mayfield the whole way and that darnold's the likely winner

so these new rumours seem to be smokescreens

 

[rossihunter2]

Oh and also part of the reason why there’s so many different rumours around is likely because Dorsey is silent on the issue even to people around him and in the organisation so I don’t really ever trust any “facts” surrounding the browns picks

 

[Deebo813]

and here's more: peter king has a trusted source who normally "gets things right" who says allen's not in the discussion and it's 100% darnold

browns beat guys think allen wasnt in the discussion in the first place and that its been between darnold and mayfield the whole way and that darnold's the likely winner

so these new rumours seem to be smokescreens

ive always thought baker the best qb in draft. Ive watched many of darnold’s games and he looks terrible. My worst fear is if browns take both baker mayfield, which i really think will happen.. i think browns are looking at qbs, allen and baker tbh.