Quarterback thread

[Simba]

idk - if he plays well i imagine we'd keep him at least until the 2019 season where we get to keep him an extra year and by playing that extra year we end up taking on only 8mill in dead money - we would save 20m in stead of just under 10m - obviously a post-june 1st designation would split the dead money but if he plays well next year to be a good qb again (which isnt an unreasonable possibility) then i dont see why we wouldnt keep him through 2019 too...

i think 2019 is the major decision point - his cap spikes up to 28m and just before the new CBA so we'd have to look at extending him or cutting him that offseason based on play

obviously if he's bad then we cut him after the 2018 season but there's no reason to get rid of him if he plays well

The most likely scenario is definitely after 2019, but as you said, an awful 2018 isn't an impossibility. There could definitely be a situation where this team has another bad season, and along with a coaching change, the new guys in charge (both Decosta and the HC) try to make their mark on the organization. Wouldn't shock me at all if Decosta tries to leverage Ozzie this year if there's a guy that they like.

 

[rossihunter2]

What's intriguing with the idea of drafting Lamar is how perfect the environement we've set up is for him, with no less than 3 coaches with experience coaching dual threats, and the dual threat QB who's shown the most success (albeit in a very short sample) as the back up.

and dont forget we turned a 6th round pick into a viable starter with much less raw talent despite him never getting any snaps as a starter for us
under the radar the ravens have been great under harbaugh at raising the levels of qbs - the one anomaly is flacco the last 3 years or so but he showed signs of improvement to finish 2017 so hopefully he trends upwards again

 

[rossihunter2]

The most likely scenario is definitely after 2019, but as you said, an awful 2018 isn't an impossibility. There could definitely be a situation where this team has another bad season, and along with a coaching change, the new guys in charge (both Decosta and the HC) try to make their mark on the organization. Wouldn't shock me at all if Decosta tries to leverage Ozzie this year if there's a guy that they like.

i dont think he'd even need to leverage him - ozzie will want his legacy to be of success and if his last 1st round pick as gm is a franchise qb i think that would be a pretty great send off - plus he'll still be working for the ravens so longterm success and looking forwards is in his best interests

but yeah i agree that if the organisation has a bit of a down year in 2018 that steve might clean the slate for eric to hire his own guys and ok starting fresh with a new franchise qb - or of course we can trade him in 2018 too and im sure there'd be a team that would take him

the best outcome for the ravens might be bringing in a qb this year/next year even if flacco plays well and then leveraging him for a trade in 2018 and if the offer isnt good enough then leverage him for a trade in 2019 in stead - if he plays well and we have a 1st round pick backing him up then that's an ideal situation

no way that if flacco plays well we dont get good draft capital for him - especially as his final 2 base salaries would be 20m and 24m so he'd be available for 2 years for low franchise qb money

if anything that would be why i think the ravens would be hot onto lamar jackson because we know that in 2 years (or only 1) we'd have our next franchise qb and also we'd be getting draft capital back for our last franchise qb...

but who knows

 

[Edgar]

I like the idea...the idea, mind you of drafting a quarterback at sixteen. I just can't talk myself into Lamar. I've tried but it always devolves into a dialogue about fixing him and wondering if it's even possible.

 

[Simba]

i dont think he'd even need to leverage him - ozzie will want his legacy to be of success and if his last 1st round pick as gm is a franchise qb i think that would be a pretty great send off - plus he'll still be working for the ravens so longterm success and looking forwards is in his best interests

but yeah i agree that if the organisation has a bit of a down year in 2018 that steve might clean the slate for eric to hire his own guys and ok starting fresh with a new franchise qb - or of course we can trade him in 2018 too and im sure there'd be a team that would take him

the best outcome for the ravens might be bringing in a qb this year/next year even if flacco plays well and then leveraging him for a trade in 2018 and if the offer isnt good enough then leverage him for a trade in 2019 in stead - if he plays well and we have a 1st round pick backing him up then that's an ideal situation

no way that if flacco plays well we dont get good draft capital for him - especially as his final 2 base salaries would be 20m and 24m so he'd be available for 2 years for low franchise qb money

if anything that would be why i think the ravens would be hot onto lamar jackson because we know that in 2 years (or only 1) we'd have our next franchise qb and also we'd be getting draft capital back for our last franchise qb...

but who knows

Part of me wants to believe you don’t need to leverage Ozzie, but another part of me has seen the same guy try to bandaid a team in need of a rebuild for the last 2 years.

I think part of what makes Lamar attractive is that he needs time, and if we have Flacco for 2 more years, that might be the time he needs. But also, if there’s another poor year and it necessitates a coaching change, some of those young minds up for HC gigs are going to be enamored with the possibility of working with Jackson.

 

[Jacquouille]

I like the idea...the idea, mind you of drafting a quarterback at sixteen. I just can't talk myself into Lamar. I've tried but it always devolves into a dialogue about fixing him and wondering if it's even possible.

It is because we have the structure to do so. We have offensive minds and coaches that are taylor made to take care of this guy. And don't forget James Urban is one of the more respected coaches in the league.

 

[Davesta]

It is because we have the structure to do so. We have offensive minds and coaches that are taylor made to take care of this guy. And don't forget James Urban is one of the more respected coaches in the league.

Say we draft Lamar. We don’t make playoffs. Harbs get canned. Do we blow up the coaching staff too? Or keep them for Lamar?

I just hope this isn’t another reason why Steve keeps harbs around. I’m hoping to see him go.

 

[Edgar]

i dont think he'd even need to leverage him - ozzie will want his legacy to be of success and if his last 1st round pick as gm is a franchise qb i think that would be a pretty great send off - plus he'll still be working for the ravens so longterm success and looking forwards is in his best interests

but yeah i agree that if the organisation has a bit of a down year in 2018 that steve might clean the slate for eric to hire his own guys and ok starting fresh with a new franchise qb - or of course we can trade him in 2018 too and im sure there'd be a team that would take him

the best outcome for the ravens might be bringing in a qb this year/next year even if flacco plays well and then leveraging him for a trade in 2018 and if the offer isnt good enough then leverage him for a trade in 2019 in stead - if he plays well and we have a 1st round pick backing him up then that's an ideal situation

no way that if flacco plays well we dont get good draft capital for him - especially as his final 2 base salaries would be 20m and 24m so he'd be available for 2 years for low franchise qb money

if anything that would be why i think the ravens would be hot onto lamar jackson because we know that in 2 years (or only 1) we'd have our next franchise qb and also we'd be getting draft capital back for our last franchise qb...

but who knows

I love the idea of trading Joe a year from now and hoping to get a one in return assuming he plays well. On the other hand, It wouldn't surprise me if Joe chose retirement under that scenario.

 

[Jacquouille]

Say we draft Lamar. We don’t make playoffs. Harbs get canned. Do we blow up the coaching staff too? Or keep them for Lamar?

I just hope this isn’t another reason why Steve keeps harbs around. I’m hoping to see him go.

That's a very good question actually. But I don't think Harbs is on the hot seat so long as we don't go 5-11 or less. And say your scenario happens, I think we'll try to keep some of the structure and mainly Urban to be Lamar's coach. Ideally Roman as well but that's less plausible.

That would be my worthless opinion on the matter.But fair question to ask nonetheless. Also a point to consider is, maybe Lamar is DeCosta (aka the one who's very safe in the FO)'s guy and he wants to build his Ravens team around him and Bisciotti says "OK, fair, do your thing then".

 

[rossihunter2]

I love the idea of trading Joe a year from now and hoping to get a one in return assuming he plays well. On the other hand, It wouldn't surprise me if Joe chose retirement under that scenario.

you think he'd retire in stead of taking over 40m in money over a couple of years (if we got rid of him in 2019) or even 65m (if we got rid of him in 2018)?

as much as he'll have baltimore as his family's home he'll also have an enormous ability to make a huge amount of money...

 

[rossihunter2]

That's a very good question actually. But I don't think Harbs is on the hot seat so long as we don't go 5-11 or less. And say your scenario happens, I think we'll try to keep some of the structure and mainly Urban to be Lamar's coach. Ideally Roman as well but that's less plausible.

That would be my worthless opinion on the matter.But fair question to ask nonetheless. Also a point to consider is, maybe Lamar is DeCosta (aka the one who's very safe in the FO)'s guy and he wants to build his Ravens team around him and Bisciotti says "OK, fair, do your thing then".

i mean as we discussed last year, eric has pretty much been running the draft (with ozzie having final say) for the last few years - it's a collaborative process in that war room rather than a competitive environment and everyone in that room (who's not a coach) will be a guaranteed part of the ravens organisation next year anyway

 

[Edgar]

you think he'd retire in stead of taking over 40m in money over a couple of years (if we got rid of him in 2019) or even 65m (if we got rid of him in 2018)?

as much as he'll have baltimore as his family's home he'll also have an enormous ability to make a huge amount of money...

Seems unlikely when put in that light.

 

[Jacquouille]

i mean as we discussed last year, eric has pretty much been running the draft (with ozzie having final say) for the last few years - it's a collaborative process in that war room rather than a competitive environment and everyone in that room (who's not a coach) will be a guaranteed part of the ravens organisation next year anyway

What I meant is, to every GM his franchise QB. If Eric thinks Lamar is special and we won't have another shot at a QB of his caliber later, then he can put his stamp on his guy one year before actually being the GM.

 

[rossihunter2]

What I meant is, to every GM his franchise QB. If Eric thinks Lamar is special and we won't have another shot at a QB of his caliber later, then he can put his stamp on his guy one year before actually being the GM.

oh of course but you have to think that if eric is that high on lamar that the rest of the building at least partially agrees with him - ozzie once said that they dont let disagreements lie - they talk it out until one, the other or both change their views so that they come into alignment and all parties agree

my point is that if eric is high on jackson then its likely that the rest of the organisation is high on jackson too

 

[allblackraven]

That's a very good question actually. But I don't think Harbs is on the hot seat so long as we don't go 5-11 or less. And say your scenario happens, I think we'll try to keep some of the structure and mainly Urban to be Lamar's coach. Ideally Roman as well but that's less plausible.

That would be my worthless opinion on the matter.But fair question to ask nonetheless. Also a point to consider is, maybe Lamar is DeCosta (aka the one who's very safe in the FO)'s guy and he wants to build his Ravens team around him and Bisciotti says "OK, fair, do your thing then".

Ugh. 5-11? If he isn't on a hot seat right now and showed the door if we miss on playoffs again, I'd be really pissed off.
If the HC change happens, lot of coaching staff will change, too.

 

[Edgar]

There's a pretty good breakdown of Lamar Jackson's game that is done by Greg Cosell. For some reason I'm having a hard time linking it but it pretty succinctly sums up how I feel about Jackson. I will admit that I'd be pretty excited and not a little shocked if we took a quarterback.

 

[Sooky]

Bisciotti can say what he wants but unless flacco improves drastically I highly doubt he is this team's QB past the 2018 season. He just isn't good value. With the depth at the position in the draft, QB will absolutely be in play for 16.

I mean in the end it is his team. And to be honest I think Bisciotti has the same view as me when it comes to Flacco. He has talent and he has shown he can be a top 10 quarterback in this league. Problem is his supporting cast more than him.

 

[Ravensnation5220]

Lamar Jackson is a lot better at takin care of the football than hes given credit for. I mean sure his completion percentage was at just shy of 60% (still was improvement from 2016 at 56%) but he only threw 10 picks all year and 4 came in one game. Hes had 8 fumbles in 2016 and 9 in 2017, now although that sounds like a lot keep in mind that he runs much more often than a regular QB, while Darnold has 9 in 2016 and 12 in 2017. I think Jackson is fine in both categories

 

[rossihunter2]

Lamar Jackson is a lot better at takin care of the football than hes given credit for. I mean sure his completion percentage was at just shy of 60% (still was improvement from 2016 at 56%) but he only threw 10 picks all year and 4 came in one game. Hes had 8 fumbles in 2016 and 9 in 2017, now although that sounds like a lot keep in mind that he runs much more often than a regular QB, while Darnold has 9 in 2016 and 12 in 2017. I think Jackson is fine in both categories

i dont think of him as wasteful with the football but he is prone to throwing some balls that are interception worthy (even if they dont actually get picked off) - it's not a worry id have as long as his mechanics, delivery and most importantly his footwork in the pocket and through his throwing motion get adjusted - he has shown the ability to throw dimes when his delivery is right but he gets too narrow and whippy with his arm which naturally makes him less accurate

i will give him some credit though - at his proday he looked a gazillion times better than at the combine - his action still looks a bit whippy but his footwork looked more comfortable under center (i appreciated that he had an actual center as well for the drill) and he was demonstrating a decent amount of touch at times

he needs a significant amount of work but i think that the change in his fundamental mechanics will naturally improve his accuracy anyway

N.B. the accuracy issue is a weird one with jackson - and im not sure looking at completion percentage is a good indicator now that ive watched more of his film - there were a number of throws that were caught where he put the ball in spots behind his receiver which were caught (inaccurate completions) which every qb prospect has, but he threw a large number of balls that i would expect a receiver to catch that went through 2 hands or were only a bit away from his body (throws that would be better throws in the nfl because he's leading the receiver into the open field as long as they can hands catch) that would hit the floor or be tipped... i think its undersold just how bad at catching some of his receivers have been - that being said he still has a tendency to overthrow some receivers badly or occasionally throw a pass that just dives in the air well short of the receiver but again i have a feeling that will be positively impacted by some significant but not necessarily difficult changes in his mechanics

 

[allblackraven]

I mean in the end it is his team. And to be honest I think Bisciotti has the same view as me when it comes to Flacco. He has talent and he has shown he can be a top 10 quarterback in this league. Problem is his supporting cast more than him.

Needs to show that much, much, much more consistently than he did over his 11 years. He is just average QB who had amazing SB run in 2012/13 and played well some games here and there. Top 10 he isn't.