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Fire Greg Roman thread

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Ok, I think it's time to open this thread, with all the chatter this week and the supposed comments from Nick Wright, that we don't practice the passing game as much as the running game. True or not, the back and forth between Roman and Lamar are enough to open this thread......

@Dom McRaven
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Thank you sir. Roman needs to either adapt, allow another cook with passing game experience to update the playbooks, or GTFO.
 
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UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Ok, I think it's time to open this thread, with all the chatter this week and the supposed comments from Nick Wright, that we don't practice the passing game as much as the running game. True or not, the back and forth between Roman and Lamar are enough to open this thread......

@Dom McRaven

Woah I must have missed something. We practice the running game more than the passing game? I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. On the one hand I'd think you should practice the thing you are worse at more. On the other I'd think you should practice the thing that you're good at more as to keep that competive advantage. And on the other hand, my third hand? Hahaha I'd think you should practice equally if you really want to be a balanced team. I guess my question is then, if we're actually pretty bad in both the running game and the passing game, then what the hell is all that practice of the running game doing? Seems like not improving the running game and not allowing the passing game to improve either. I'm not surprised we have this thread now. You could even see chatterings of this last year from @JoeyFlex5. I totally agreed with him. It would have been ridiculous to assume that the NFL wouldn't catch up with us and if Roman couldn't adapt we'd be, well we're we are now.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Thank you sir. Roman needs to either adapt, allow another cook with passing game experience to update the playbooks, or GTFO.

You get too many cooks in the kitchen you come up with clusterfuck pie.

Lamar's accuracy has been off and idk if you can blame Roman for that but maybe they should try to add quicker timed passes. Hooks. Slants. Just get the ball out faster.
 
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cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
You get too many cooks in the kitchen you come up with clusterfuck pie.

Lamar's accuracy has been off and idk if you can blame Roman for that but maybe they should try to add quicker timed passes. Hooks. Slants. Just get the ball out faster.
Agree. What about attacking what the defense gives you. If they sell out to stop the run - ok then hit them with the passing game. It makes no sense to keep establishing the run game if it has little success.

Our organization is known for being pretty much leak-free. I doubt Nick Wright actually knows what our practices look like. That's usually something local reporters know.
 

JO_75

Hall of Famer
First time we failed to score 20 points with Lamar. Weather aside, Roman continues to fail us from an offensive standpoint. Don't we have the former Bengals OC as our WR Coach?
 

drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
I'm on the fence... It's the HC's job to dictate the OFF and DEF philosophy. Has HE done that? ............no.

Coordinators and position coaches come and go. When there's no TEAM philosophy... and we can see that's the case... that's on the HC.

I like John's diplomacy, but he is on the hot seat - again, for me, not the next level coaches.

...............There are a ton of injuries and a pandemic... I'm uncertain how a GM proceeds in times like these. The team's performance is disappointing. How do you address that?

John was grateful to accept the accolades of the team's success last year. Smiling at the pressers and absorbing the love. Who were the drivers of that? My answer.... Roman and Martindale. Those two are doing the best they can under the circumstances. The underlying factor in mediocrity of season's past AND this year: a HC who has no whole team understanding...imo.
 

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
I'm on the fence... It's the HC's job to dictate the OFF and DEF philosophy. Has HE done that? ............no.

Coordinators and position coaches come and go. When there's no TEAM philosophy... and we can see that's the case... that's on the HC.

I like John's diplomacy, but he is on the hot seat - again, for me, not the next level coaches.

...............There are a ton of injuries and a pandemic... I'm uncertain how a GM proceeds in times like these. The team's performance is disappointing. How do you address that?

John was grateful to accept the accolades of the team's success last year. Smiling at the pressers and absorbing the love. Who were the drivers of that? My answer.... Roman and Martindale. Those two are doing the best they can under the circumstances. The underlying factor in mediocrity of season's past AND this year: a HC who has no whole team understanding...imo.

I don't think The Ravens OFF and DEF lacks philosophy. It's obvious that John Harbaugh likes a offense that is run first that features play action which is actually what Greg Roman offense has been about through his coaching career. It seems like The Ravens try to stray away from it this year but I guess that was their way of trying to evolve as a offense and be more diverse passing wise.
 

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
First time we failed to score 20 points with Lamar. Weather aside, Roman continues to fail us from an offensive standpoint. Don't we have the former Bengals OC as our WR Coach?

No. The Ravens have the former Bengals Wr coach as their Qb coach which is James Urban. David Culley is The Ravens wide receiver coach and passing game coordinator.
 
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drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
I don't think The Ravens OFF and DEF lacks philosophy. It's obvious that John Harbaugh likes a offense that is run first that features play action which is actually what Greg Roman offense has been about through his coaching career. It seems like The Ravens try to stray away from it this year but I guess that was their way of trying to evolve as a offense and be more diverse passing wise.

But by "evolving," as you say and doing a pretty poor job of it, wouldn't the smart move be to return to the successful philosophy of running the ball? The evolved offense they are trying to run now is essentially the same dink and dunk crap they were doing to emulate the NE OFF with Tom Brady when Joe Flacco was QB. Luckily Llamar is mobile and can escape some of the sacks Joe took.

I see a team uncertain of what they are. On DEF, for now, I'm willing to say it's injuries that is making them look that way. On OFF, I don't think the loss of Yanda can go unmentioned and the fact we have two starters on OFF line out with injuries and now down a blocking TE out for the season - it could simply be injuries have crippled their ability to do what they want.

But I'm less inclined to give JH a free pass as I feel like we've seen this failed OFF model under his tenure before. Even when players were healthy early on, they have not shown the type of play they demonstrated last year at any point this season.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
But by "evolving," as you say and doing a pretty poor job of it, wouldn't the smart move be to return to the successful philosophy of running the ball? The evolved offense they are trying to run now is essentially the same dink and dunk crap they were doing to emulate the NE OFF with Tom Brady when Joe Flacco was QB. Luckily Llamar is mobile and can escape some of the sacks Joe took.

I see a team uncertain of what they are. On DEF, for now, I'm willing to say it's injuries that is making them look that way. On OFF, I don't think the loss of Yanda can go unmentioned and the fact we have two starters on OFF line out with injuries and now down a blocking TE out for the season - it could simply be injuries have crippled their ability to do what they want.

But I'm less inclined to give JH a free pass as I feel like we've seen this failed OFF model under his tenure before. Even when players were healthy early on, they have not shown the type of play they demonstrated last year at any point this season.

we still run the ball at a higher proportion than every team in the league other than the Patriots - hard to say we've moved away from a run first philosophy - there is no team in the league over the last 2 years that has committed to running the ball more than we have as a team

i do not think we should be a "run-first" team even with Lamar Jackson and this stable of running backs but that's probably not a discussion for this point in the season
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
6th OC in 12 years and we're still pretending like firing the current one is the solution to our problems...
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
What's the solution?
A combination of better play-calling, better personnel, better depth, and existing personnel simply playing better football.

The latter is the one fans never seem to understand or accept. They think players always play at the same level all the time. They don't. Guys improve. Guys regress.

How is firing Roman going to make Lamar a more accurate passer?
How is firing Roman going to make Lamar make correct reads and not throw horrible interceptions against the likes of Pittsburgh or New England?
How is firing Roman going to make Skura snap the ball better? Or become a better blocker while recovering from an injury he clearly hasn't recovered from?
How is firing Roman going to make Andrews and others catch more passes instead of dropping them?
How is firing Roman going to make our offensive personnel stop having ridiculous formational penalties that kill or stall drives?

There is no "one decision fixes all" solution. You can try it if you want to, but you'll wake up with the same feeling in 2013, when we were wrong, and in 2015, 2016, 2017, and most of 2018, when fans were wrong every single time. It had far less significance than we imagined. It turned out it simply was mostly about the players.

What a shock that is. The guys who actually play the game have a bigger impact on the outcome of it than the guys wearing headsets.

Wild stuff there.
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
What's the solution?
1st: we've always been a defense oriented organization. It's part of our culture. That will always make it harder to allocate resources to our offense. See Ngakoue. It was no problem no trade for him - don't get me wrong I liked it as well - but we don't have a Mason, Boldin, Smith Sr. type of player right now. This means Roman, Culley and Urban have to become creative. Find ways to get the ball out quickly. We can no longer force the defenses to play according to our offensive personnel -> adjust and look what other teams run and steal from them. Play to the strength of our current WR corps. Force zone coverages and they should better trust the young guys now.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
1st: we've always been a defense oriented organization. It's part of our culture. That will always make it harder to allocate resources to our offense. See Ngakoue. It was no problem no trade for him - don't get me wrong I liked it as well - but we don't have a Mason, Boldin, Smith Sr. type of player right now. This means Roman, Culley and Urban have to become creative. Find ways to get the ball out quickly. We can no longer force the defenses to play according to our offensive personnel -> adjust and look what other teams run and steal from them. Play to the strength of our current WR corps. Force zone coverages and they should better trust the young guys now.
So on the offense/defense blend...

It's merely just a product of talent and resources. Most of the young talent on the roster is on the offensive side of the ball (Lamar, Dobbins, Edwards, pretty much the entire Oline, Andrews, Brown, etc.). So the reality is making any significant veteran investments in the offensive won't yield much, because you have upwards of at least 6-7 players on the offense that, when healthy, are starters and won't be replaced by veteran talent.

Meanwhile, on the defensive side of the ball, you have very little, or any, impact players on rookie contracts. Veteran, aging, defensive line, pretty much paying veteran prices for almost all of our secondary except for Elliott, you're paying market values for pretty much the entire pass rush group. The only position we have rookie-level youth is at LB, seemingly, and that investment is merely like 6 months old at this point.

If we didn't have so much cheap talent on the offensive side of the ball, we wouldn't be investing most of our FA resources on a defense that's getting older. As others, including myself, have indicated, expect this to almost completely reverse within the next probably 2-3 years. As Guys like Stanley, Brown(s), Lamar, Andrews, etc. come up for their first big paydays, they'll be getting more of the money, and the defense will shift towards youth and draft picks. Its a balancing act.

As it were, its sort of amusing and not just a little hypocritical of the fanbase to complain about lack of veteran talent/investment on offense, especially at receiver. We did nothing but ignore the position in the draft for like a decade, and just put band aid after band aid on those resources. And now when we do bring in guys like Brown, Andrews, Boykin and Hurst, we now complain about lack of veteran additions or upgrades. I'm not suggesting these guys are alpha world-beaters, but its not for lack of effort in the draft towards upgrading these positions.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
1st: we've always been a defense oriented organization. It's part of our culture. That will always make it harder to allocate resources to our offense. See Ngakoue. It was no problem no trade for him - don't get me wrong I liked it as well - but we don't have a Mason, Boldin, Smith Sr. type of player right now. This means Roman, Culley and Urban have to become creative. Find ways to get the ball out quickly. We can no longer force the defenses to play according to our offensive personnel -> adjust and look what other teams run and steal from them. Play to the strength of our current WR corps. Force zone coverages and they should better trust the young guys now.
This is a good point, the ravens as an organization top to bottom are the most “defense first” team in the league, basically since like 1998 we have spent every single year as a defense first organization, even the Steelers and Bears spent quite a few years as offensive minded teams in the same time span. Maybe in this increasingly offensive league were starting to notice the trend more, we just can’t seem to get our shit together offensively for more than a stretch. It’s just bound to happen I guess with us being such a defensive minded team.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Fire this guy Friday morning. Right after we lose a very winnable game at Pittsburgh due to unimaginative play calling. Just like Kap and Taylor , Roman’s QBs and success never last because he implores college offenses.

Lamar can be a good Qb , even throwing the ball , he just needs a scheme that allows him to succeed.


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