2021 WR Thread

[rossihunter2]

Oh wow I thought he was buried on the depth chart for the big burrow season, I thought a lack of tape prior to 2020 was one of the biggest reasons he wasn’t highly ranked.

he's been highly ranked for as long as i can remember tbh - i personally wasnt a fan at the beginning of the process - but he's generally been thought of well by the draft community for a while and people were excited about him even more when chase opted out because he'd get the chance to be the number 1

 

[JoeyFlex5]

he's been highly ranked for as long as i can remember tbh - i personally wasnt a fan at the beginning of the process - but he's generally been thought of well by the draft community for a while and people were excited about him even more when chase opted out because he'd get the chance to be the number 1

He’s been considered a late first or early second from the start, but I wouldn’t necessarily call that highly ranked. He has enormous potential, that of a top 20 prospect, but his projections seem to be a half a round later which is a pretty huge difference, I always thought the reason he wasn’t ranked up there with Bateman was because he had such limited reps prior to this year, guess I was wrong lol.

How likely do you think it is that Bateman ends up falling and going after Marshall, because of his measurements being WAYYY less than what people thought?

 

[rossihunter2]

He’s been considered a late first or early second from the start, but I wouldn’t necessarily call that highly ranked. He has enormous potential, that of a top 20 prospect, but his projections seem to be a half a round later which is a pretty huge difference, I always thought the reason he wasn’t ranked up there with Bateman was because he had such limited reps prior to this year, guess I was wrong lol.

How likely do you think it is that Bateman ends up falling and going after Marshall, because of his measurements being WAYYY less than what people thought?

wait whose measurements were surprising?

with bateman id be surprised but it should definitely be pointed out that DJ has bateman only just in his top 50 and im not quite sure why...

and idk maybe we've been looking at different draft circles but ive consistently seen marshall in the 1st from the beginning - yes end of the 1st type but not far off it if he wasnt getting in... partly that's why i was so against him early because he was nothing like what i thought he should be in terms of polish

 

[JoeyFlex5]

wait whose measurements were surprising?

with bateman id be surprised but it should definitely be pointed out that DJ has bateman only just in his top 50 and im not quite sure why...

and idk maybe we've been looking at different draft circles but ive consistently seen marshall in the 1st from the beginning - yes end of the 1st type but not far off it if he wasnt getting in... partly that's why i was so against him early because he was nothing like what i thought he should be in terms of polish

Who thought Bateman was 6’ 190? He was listed 6’2” 200+ prior to his pro day

 

[rossihunter2]

Who thought Bateman was 6’ 190? He was listed 6’2” 200+ prior to his pro day

i mean i guess only just clearing 6'0 surprised me but i had him as 6'1 before that so not that much

the weight is more surprising but given that it's an official proday measurement my guess is he trimmed down a bit for the athletic testing

but idk that it's really that meaningful - nobody's questioning chase as a "big-body" despite the fact he's exactly the same height and only 11lbs heavier...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i mean i guess only just clearing 6'0 surprised me but i had him as 6'1 before that so not that much

the weight is more surprising but given that it's an official proday measurement my guess is he trimmed down a bit for the athletic testing

but idk that it's really that meaningful - nobody's questioning chase as a "big-body" despite the fact he's exactly the same height and only 11lbs heavier...

11 lbs is a pretty major difference at the same height, especially for athletes with next to no body fat at all.

and he was officially listed 2 inches taller and 10-20 lbs heavier by Minnesota(can’t remember the exact weight figure), that’s a major disparity, the difference between his listed and pro day measurements is the difference between davante adams and Calvin Ridley for reference. one is well known for using his physicality and big frame(along with incredible releases) and the other is known as a slender and quick route running specialist

 

[rossihunter2]

https://purpleflock.com/threads/3586/

bumping this because only 1 person's done it yet...

 

[RavensMania]

He’s been considered a late first or early second from the start, but I wouldn’t necessarily call that highly ranked. He has enormous potential, that of a top 20 prospect, but his projections seem to be a half a round later which is a pretty huge difference, I always thought the reason he wasn’t ranked up there with Bateman was because he had such limited reps prior to this year, guess I was wrong lol.

How likely do you think it is that Bateman ends up falling and going after Marshall, because of his measurements being WAYYY less than what people thought?

I absolutely could see Bateman going after Marshall for those reasons.

 

[Truth]

limited vertical based route tree but man was he good at it - limited production at tennessee for all sorts of reasons - but he's explosive, has a big wingspan, has great hands and does well in contested situations and shows some nuance to his route-running (which bodes well for the tee martin hire for sure)

and despite the limited production he beat surtain at least twice deep (surtain was able to recover the first time because he didn't stack but he scored a TD on the 2nd one - the only TD surtain gave up all year) when they played Bama - and not many WRs even vaguely troubled surtain in 2020 - and then he did the exact same thing to tyson campbell against georgia



here's the first surtain play btw



and here's the 2nd where he stacks and gets the TD

Pardon the late reply. Precisely what I've seen as well. I'm generally weary of WRs that didn't produce in college because it's not often that they fare better in the pros. But Palmer showscases legitimate pro-level tools, and perhaps more importantly, a fairly extensive understanding of how to sell his routes against different CB alignments. To your point about the top-level competition, he also made an impressive grab against Jaycee Horn last year on a short comeback after selling the fade. Doesn't hurt that he's listed Julio Jones and Davante Adams as players he tries to emulate, nor that he's also stated that he's never satisfied with what he's done. I'll stop short of labeling him as a sure-fire gem. But I will say that I'd be happy to have him in the 2nd day if we can't land a WR in the 1st round.

 

[Truth]

i mean i guess only just clearing 6'0 surprised me but i had him as 6'1 before that so not that much

the weight is more surprising but given that it's an official proday measurement my guess is he trimmed down a bit for the athletic testing

but idk that it's really that meaningful - nobody's questioning chase as a "big-body" despite the fact he's exactly the same height and only 11lbs heavier...

Agreed. He's apparently 6 and 3/8s, but considering that he ran a 4.39, jumped 36 inches and had a solid broad jump of 123 inches, I'd say the results won't impact where he goes.

 

[RavensMania]

Agreed. He's apparently 6 and 3/8s, but considering that he ran a 4.39, jumped 36 inches and had a solid broad jump of 123 inches, I'd say the results won't impact where he goes.

One thing is certain is our new WR coach is in on the discussions about Palmer. If Tee Martin doesn't feel he will succeed at the NFL level than he won't be drafted on day 2 if at all.

 

[rossihunter2]

Pardon the late reply. Precisely what I've seen as well. I'm generally weary of WRs that didn't produce in college because it's not often that they fare better in the pros. But Palmer showscases legitimate pro-level tools, and perhaps more importantly, a fairly extensive understanding of how to sell his routes against different CB alignments. To your point about the top-level competition, he also made an impressive grab against Jaycee Horn last year on a short comeback after selling the fade. Doesn't hurt that he's listed Julio Jones and Davante Adams as players he tries to emulate, nor that he's also stated that he's never satisfied with what he's done. I'll stop short of labeling him as a sure-fire gem. But I will say that I'd be happy to have him in the 2nd day if we can't land a WR in the 1st round.

he's the kind of guy who might be available at the end of the 3rd who'd be great value there but might surprise some national pundits - and if he's there on day 3, he's a no brainer

and the production doesn't worry me, in the same way that i didn't worry about DPJ's production last year and i'm not worrying about Nico Collins's production either...

all 3 had awful QB play

 

[JoeyFlex5]

im all in on terrace marshall, his size, his acceleration and change of direction, the way he is able to use quick sharp breaks at the top of the route to uncover and then use length to separate late, is exactly what we are missing. an uber physical big bodied guy is cool and all, but give me a guy who can make himself a more readily available target and then provide a big throwing window, over a rough and tumble big bodied jumpball specialist, all day.

its the LSU WR prototype really, they produce WRs who specialize in separating late in the play, a trait that translates incredibly well to the NFL because the speed of the corners is neutralized when the wr uncovers just before the ball arrives.

 

[rossihunter2]

im all in on terrace marshall, his size, his acceleration and change of direction, the way he is able to use quick sharp breaks at the top of the route to uncover and then use length to separate late, is exactly what we are missing. an uber physical big bodied guy is cool and all, but give me a guy who can make himself a more readily available target and then provide a big throwing window, over a rough and tumble big bodied jumpball specialist, all day.

its the LSU WR prototype really, they produce WRs who specialize in separating late in the play, a trait that translates incredibly well to the NFL because the speed of the corners is neutralized when the wr uncovers just before the ball arrives.

i like him a lot too - his struggles vs contact in the route do concern me but everything else is awesome in terms of the physical and athletic tools he possesses and the route running and the hands etc. - and he's a redzone weapon

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i like him a lot too - his struggles vs contact in the route do concern me but everything else is awesome in terms of the physical and athletic tools he possesses and the route running and the hands etc. - and he's a redzone weapon

tbh im not concerned with it, hes still slender and young and id say hes got a lot of physical maturing to do, plus the NFL is more prevalent with press coverage BUT the refs are also a lot less lenient with corners as far as bumping and grabbing guys beyond the initial jump off the snap, hes got excellent feet, and judging by his ability to uncover before the catch it looks like hes fairly natural at reading leverage and playing off of it, so if our WR coach can get him to apply that same trait to his initial release and throughout the stem, then boy you might have yourself a weapon.

his downsides are just so limited and just so non-concerning for me, and his upsides are for the most part uncoachable, hes got rare natural abilities and at bare minimum he appears to be a serviceable NFL WR, even as a rookie i think hes got plenty to lean on as far as natural ability goes, the rest can be worked on as he goes.

i think marshall is the ravens pick, maybe not even at 27, the depth of this class and the growing popularity of the manufactured touch, quick release, catch and run slot receiver, could very well push a terrace marshall down the board a little bit, with guys like elijah moore, toney, rondale moore, amari rodgers, i think marshall could find himself stuck in that gray area where hes not on a tier with bateman, but is in the fringe 1st tier with those other guys and his skill set simply isnt the flavor of the month in the nfl, but all those other guys literally specialize in that exact thing.

i wouldnt be shocked at all to see the ravens trade back to the top 10 of the 2nd round and still land marshall.

 

[rossihunter2]

tbh im not concerned with it, hes still slender and young and id say hes got a lot of physical maturing to do, plus the NFL is more prevalent with press coverage BUT the refs are also a lot less lenient with corners as far as bumping and grabbing guys beyond the initial jump off the snap, hes got excellent feet, and judging by his ability to uncover before the catch it looks like hes fairly natural at reading leverage and playing off of it, so if our WR coach can get him to apply that same trait to his initial release and throughout the stem, then boy you might have yourself a weapon.

his downsides are just so limited and just so non-concerning for me, and his upsides are for the most part uncoachable, hes got rare natural abilities and at bare minimum he appears to be a serviceable NFL WR, even as a rookie i think hes got plenty to lean on as far as natural ability goes, the rest can be worked on as he goes.

i think marshall is the ravens pick, maybe not even at 27, the depth of this class and the growing popularity of the manufactured touch, quick release, catch and run slot receiver, could very well push a terrace marshall down the board a little bit, with guys like elijah moore, toney, rondale moore, amari rodgers, i think marshall could find himself stuck in that gray area where hes not on a tier with bateman, but is in the fringe 1st tier with those other guys and his skill set simply isnt the flavor of the month in the nfl, but all those other guys literally specialize in that exact thing.

i wouldnt be shocked at all to see the ravens trade back to the top 10 of the 2nd round and still land marshall.

im not worried about it in the sense that i dont think he can develop - just a fear based in miles boykin's failures at that trait
marshall would be a great pick but i'll always worry about a ravens drafted WR (even if i advocated for them pre-draft)

but there's definitely lots you can say about marshall that suggests he can develop in those areas where there are concerns - he's young, has some physical maturing still yet to do, shows flashes in almost all aspects of his game even if not always consistent, shows nice route-running traits and amazing movement skills given his frame

he's also the type of prospect that you can't really get later in the draft - at 27 it's highly likely he has the biggest upside of any player left on every teams's boards

 

[JoeyFlex5]

im not worried about it in the sense that i dont think he can develop - just a fear based in miles boykin's failures at that trait
marshall would be a great pick but i'll always worry about a ravens drafted WR (even if i advocated for them pre-draft)

but there's definitely lots you can say about marshall that suggests he can develop in those areas where there are concerns - he's young, has some physical maturing still yet to do, shows flashes in almost all aspects of his game even if not always consistent, shows nice route-running traits and amazing movement skills given his frame

he's also the type of prospect that you can't really get later in the draft - at 27 it's highly likely he has the biggest upside of any player left on every teams's boards

exactly, something seems to be pushing marshall down boards, and the ravens are never in a position to grab this kinda guy, take him while we can, we almost did with higgins, and frankly, as much as i love patrick queen, i cant say i wouldnt prefer to have higgins here and then we take JOK or collins at 27.

and as for boykin, well he was never half the prospect that marshall is, boykin looked much slower on film than marshall, and MUCH slower than his workout times indicated, he was much smaller at the catch point, he did not separate late, did not establish leverage at any point in his routes, did not break cleanly, did not use his length very well either. i was on boykins bandwagon after rookie TC, but pre-draft i was NOT a fan at all and all my fears about boykin came true at the next level. i just dont have those concerns with marshall.

 

[rossihunter2]

exactly, something seems to be pushing marshall down boards, and the ravens are never in a position to grab this kinda guy, take him while we can, we almost did with higgins, and frankly, as much as i love patrick queen, i cant say i wouldnt prefer to have higgins here and then we take JOK or collins at 27.

and as for boykin, well he was never half the prospect that marshall is, boykin looked much slower on film than marshall, and MUCH slower than his workout times indicated, he was much smaller at the catch point, he did not separate late, did not establish leverage at any point in his routes, did not break cleanly, did not use his length very well either. i was on boykins bandwagon after rookie TC, but pre-draft i was NOT a fan at all and all my fears about boykin came true at the next level. i just dont have those concerns with marshall.

if the team loved higgins enough to nearly take him last year, i see no reason why they wouldn't similarly love marshall

i dont want to jinx it, but it really does seem like marshall and the ravens are circling each other - he's being mocked to us constantly (even when bateman's available because of the stylistic fit), he's got a chance to actually be available when we pick, he's got a skillset that we covet (and have attempted to acquire in the draft numerous times), he has the kind of versatility we often value highly in players at all positions, and he has the height-weight-speed traits and athletic test scoring that normally rank highly on our board

i agree that marshall's an astronomically better prospect - i only bring up my concerns with him because they are somewhat reminiscent of why miles has never developed - but you're definitely right that marshall's shown an ability to be physical at the catch-point and an ability to adjust and much better intelligence with play recognition and route-running - and you're also right that boykin's athleticism didn't really show up on tape the way that marshall's does

i do honestly agree with you about higgins and queen though - i think 2020 was a better/deeper WR draft at the top (albeit i like the top 3 much more than i liked the consensus top 3 in 2020) and i think 2021 is stacked with LBs who are athletic and good in coverage - queen looks to be a nice asset with his athleticism as a blitzer so far but i could defintely see a world in which we come out with a better pair of prospects if we took Higgins last year and then find a LB this year (if not JOK or Collins then maybe Jamin Davis or Jabril Cox in round 2 or some of the other athletic guys even later)

 

[rossihunter2]

umm.... speaking of marshall...



is it just lying season???? or is this legit that there might be an issue...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

umm.... speaking of marshall...



is it just lying season???? or is this legit that there might be an issue...

Just came here to ask about this because I scrolled past something on fb about it.

surgeries in high school... how much does that really matter at this point? Is this a Todd gurley type of deal where he’s got degenerative issues ?

Edit: supposedly he had a lower leg injury similar to dak Prescott’s and a torn ACL in high school, and a stress fracture in his foot in college. all 3 requiring surgeries.