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2018 Free Agency

Camp isn't, just a decent returner

i disagree with this entirely - our offence was absolutely at its most effective with camp on the field especially in 4/5 wide sets he adds an element that our offence just does not have and he does it incredibly well - his problem has always been a combination of his injuries and the ravens natural inclination to de-emphasise interior routes
 
Welcome Pernell as a big upgrade. And with declining cap cuts as the big WR upgrade and welcome to 8-8. Anybody that thinks these upgrades will put the team over. We will all discuss it again in October. And I will go out on a limb now and tell anybody who thinks this way is not gonna enjoy that discussion. While I agree with you that these players probably aren’t hitting the market. We need a game changing edge rusher. Anyways Like with Maclin and Decker. That shit worked as patchwork jobs when there was 4 hall of fame caliber players to build around. As well as some pro bowl caliber players. And these players were only filling small holes. Not as your go to moves as the big upgrades. Not gonna make that much of a difference

As for Houston and Robbie. I kinda believed there is only a chance those dudes will hit the market. Although it would be cool. But I don’t dispute that those players aren’t that likely to be cut and are only cut candidates. Cuz nobody cuts edge rushers, cornerbacks, left tackles and WIDE RECIVERS that are elite and in their prime. Even if only some of their prime are left. These players get restructured. Not cut and traded. So yes I wasn’t really that confident Rob and Houston would hit the market. But an idea that would be nice. Because only star WRs and edge rushers with diminishing skills hit the market or get traded for mid to late round picks. Whatever suckers ends up wit Dez, Sanders and Nelson aren’t getting anything near the player you watched several yrs ago. McPhee could be mildly productive. But not the differences maker the team is gonna need it it wanders to far from Pees system.

Side note I said back in March 2015 the rush could be in trouble once Suggs and Dumervil show their age. Cuz management doesn’t have the aggressive mentality to find elite edge rushers. It is gonna have to get a top10 pick which we nearly got Bosa. There there is getting lucky and finding an elite edge rusher in later round1 to round 3 somewhere. Cuz management covets it’s countless round2 and roumd3 busts to much to trade into the front of round1. And never have the money to make a splash in free agency as a result of buying band aids. As in cheap cap cuts with diminishing skills to patch holes. You add up all the cheap contracts of useless players like Arrington we could sign a Norwell and Osemele.
Ironically, Dumervil finished 1st in pass rushing productivity among 3-4 OLBs this year. Suggs finished 5th.
 
Ironically, Dumervil finished 1st in pass rushing productivity among 3-4 OLBs this year. Suggs finished 5th.

Dumervil’s I believe was on a very small sample size?? And these dudes are not gonna keep this up at their age. And Suggs I’m going out on a limb and saying his effectiveness is gonna fall off sharply at some point this year. Could maybe begin kinda hot but by late season everybody will agree he needs to retire. We need the next Suggs and Dumervil. I favor not paying Mosley and finding a bonafide difference maker at ilb. Be it trading up for Roquan or trading for and taking a chance on Foster lol. If he doesn’t justify franchise money then he shouldn’t be resigned. Can’t keep giving franchise money to mediocre players cuz of already wearing a ravens uniform. Personally I would make him a free agent now. Lowering his cap his is gonna call for overpaying him. Anybody that pays him similar to Wagner should be tested for drugs and capable of competent thinking!!
 
Dumervil’s I believe was on a very small sample size?? And these dudes are not gonna keep this up at their age. And Suggs I’m going out on a limb and saying his effectiveness is gonna fall off sharply at some point this year. Could maybe begin kinda hot but by late season everybody will agree he needs to retire. We need the next Suggs and Dumervil. I favor not paying Mosley and finding a bonafide difference maker at ilb. Be it trading up for Roquan or trading for and taking a chance on Foster lol. If he doesn’t justify franchise money then he shouldn’t be resigned. Can’t keep giving franchise money to mediocre players cuz of already wearing a ravens uniform. Personally I would make him a free agent now. Lowering his cap his is gonna call for overpaying him. Anybody that pays him similar to Wagner should be tested for drugs and capable of competent thinking!!

Doom played about 30% of their snaps i think - which im pretty sure was the 2nd highest snap count % of all DE on the 49ers this year
 
Dumervil’s I believe was on a very small sample size?? And these dudes are not gonna keep this up at their age. And Suggs I’m going out on a limb and saying his effectiveness is gonna fall off sharply at some point this year. Could maybe begin kinda hot but by late season everybody will agree he needs to retire. We need the next Suggs and Dumervil. I favor not paying Mosley and finding a bonafide difference maker at ilb. Be it trading up for Roquan or trading for and taking a chance on Foster lol. If he doesn’t justify franchise money then he shouldn’t be resigned. Can’t keep giving franchise money to mediocre players cuz of already wearing a ravens uniform. Personally I would make him a free agent now. Lowering his cap his is gonna call for overpaying him. Anybody that pays him similar to Wagner should be tested for drugs and capable of competent thinking!!
Closer to the middle of all OLBs who played over 25% of the snaps. 50 disruptions on 268 snaps. For comparison's sake, Quinn finished with 38 on 394 snaps. Obviously to your point, the decline could come in very sharply due to their age. But the effectiveness has remained to this point, which goes strictly against your retroactive notion from 2015. I'm all for finding the proper options as long as they're actually there. But approaches have to be created based on landscape and ideology instead of simply the latter. I was high on Foster and would love the addition, but given that San Francisco would be forced to eat $3.5 million to release or trade him, it's tough to presume the likelihood of his availability. Outright releasing Mosley at this moment would be a mind-numbingly thoughtless move, which at best would decline any opportunity at least exploring his trade value.
 
Closer to the middle of all OLBs who played over 25% of the snaps. 50 disruptions on 268 snaps. For comparison's sake, Quinn finished with 38 on 394 snaps. Obviously to your point, the decline could come in very sharply due to their age. But the effectiveness has remained to this point, which goes strictly against your retroactive notion from 2015. I'm all for finding the proper options as long as they're actually there. But approaches have to be created based on landscape and ideology instead of simply the latter. I was high on Foster and would love the addition, but given that San Francisco would be forced to eat $3.5 million to release or trade him, it's tough to presume the likelihood of his availability. Outright releasing Mosley at this moment would be a mind-numbingly thoughtless move, which at best would decline any opportunity at least exploring his trade value.

It’s far easier to come off the bench when starters are tired. If Dumervils play reflects these numbers to the eye test he would be a hotter commodity. And Mosley I considered the idea of shopping him. But meh who is giving up a draft pick to my near $10mil to a mediocre linebacker. But you are right. Should at least try.
 
It’s far easier to come off the bench when starters are tired. If Dumervils play reflects these numbers to the eye test he would be a hotter commodity. And Mosley I considered the idea of shopping him. But meh who is giving up a draft pick to my near $10mil to a mediocre linebacker. But you are right. Should at least try.
Tired starters? Dumvervil substituted on obvious passing downs, which are applicable from the first drive. That's how it works with designated pass rushing specialists. They are generally fresher by comparison, but it would've been a different story had all of their success come in the second halves. Carl Lawson was terrific in a similar role, and he's a rare talent. Someone else does it, and they're a byproduct of tired starters. The display of hypocrisy between the two assessments is somewhat staggering. Let's take a hard look at the following strategy, by that I mean evaluating players based solely on their current circumstances and/or league-wide interest. It innately validates every decision made by teams based solely on each decision. By your own logic, the notion that Jeff Janis' talents are being misused can be entirely dismissed by stating that if he was as talented, he'd either see more playing time or be starting elsewhere, and that would be the end of the argument. Do you see the lapse in logic or consistency here? Talking up players whom are supposedly being undervalued by their teams only to turn around and create a ceiling for others players based on their value is wholeheartedly hypocritical. Don't know where to even begin with the latter.
 
Closer to the middle of all OLBs who played over 25% of the snaps. 50 disruptions on 268 snaps. For comparison's sake, Quinn finished with 38 on 394 snaps. Obviously to your point, the decline could come in very sharply due to their age. But the effectiveness has remained to this point, which goes strictly against your retroactive notion from 2015. I'm all for finding the proper options as long as they're actually there. But approaches have to be created based on landscape and ideology instead of simply the latter. I was high on Foster and would love the addition, but given that San Francisco would be forced to eat $3.5 million to release or trade him, it's tough to presume the likelihood of his availability. Outright releasing Mosley at this moment would be a mind-numbingly thoughtless move, which at best would decline any opportunity at least exploring his trade value.
I'm curious - how does Sizzle's snap count compare? I'm pretty sure his 5th place in that context is way more impressive than Dumervile's 1st.
 
Tired starters? Dumvervil substituted on obvious passing downs, which are applicable from the first drive. That's how it works with designated pass rushing specialists. They are generally fresher by comparison, but it would've been a different story had all of their success come in the second halves. Carl Lawson was terrific in a similar role, and he's a rare talent. Someone else does it, and they're a byproduct of tired starters. The display of hypocrisy between the two assessments is somewhat staggering. Let's take a hard look at the following strategy, by that I mean evaluating players based solely on their current circumstances and/or league-wide interest. It innately validates every decision made by teams based solely on each decision. By your own logic, the notion that Jeff Janis' talents are being misused can be entirely dismissed by stating that if he was as talented, he'd either see more playing time or be starting elsewhere, and that would be the end of the argument. Do you see the lapse in logic or consistency here? Talking up players whom are supposedly being undervalued by their teams only to turn around and create a ceiling for others players based on their value is wholeheartedly hypocritical. Don't know where to even begin with the latter.

Totally different a young player sitting behind established starters and a declining vet. Dude you can’t compare. One is crashing into his prime looking for opportunity. The latter couldn’t even handle a full load. You recite stats. But last time Dumervil play for us. I saw him get handled consistently. Dumervils stats coulda been schemed for all you know. Was it really a result of beating tackles?? If so I’m impressed. But I wouldn’t count on it. And if Dumervil is a free agent or cut you will see the interest he generates won’t be much. You can’t compare the 2. How is that biased?? Like I said players like Janis and Brice Butlers free agency interest will clearly demonstrate that. And BTW I will bet money 10 to 1 odds with anybody here Brice Butler outplays Dez Bryant this season. Unless of course he ends up with a terrible QB for a big pay day. It happens. Talented players get caught behind established vets and higher draft picks. How is it Correa and the Bronk even have nfl roster spots?? Because of being top75 picks. every situation is different. And as strange as it sounds politics come into play. The best player isn’t always playing. But when these players hit the open market he attracts interest cuz teams realize this. Based on production Brice Butler shouldn’t get more than $2million per. But he will warrant double that or more based on his raw skills.
 
13 Days until free agency, are we going to let everyone test the market or attempt to re-sign some players before the 14th?
 
Totally different a young player sitting behind established starters and a declining vet. Dude you can’t compare. One is crashing into his prime looking for opportunity. The latter couldn’t even handle a full load. You recite stats. But last time Dumervil play for us. I saw him get handled consistently. Dumervils stats coulda been schemed for all you know. Was it really a result of beating tackles?? If so I’m impressed. But I wouldn’t count on it. And if Dumervil is a free agent or cut you will see the interest he generates won’t be much. You can’t compare the 2. How is that biased?? Like I said players like Janis and Brice Butlers free agency interest will clearly demonstrate that. And BTW I will bet money 10 to 1 odds with anybody here Brice Butler outplays Dez Bryant this season. Unless of course he ends up with a terrible QB for a big pay day. It happens. Talented players get caught behind established vets and higher draft picks. How is it Correa and the Bronk even have nfl roster spots?? Because of being top75 picks. every situation is different. And as strange as it sounds politics come into play. The best player isn’t always playing. But when these players hit the open market he attracts interest cuz teams realize this. Based on production Brice Butler shouldn’t get more than $2million per. But he will warrant double that or more based on his raw skills.
My point is that there's no objective method to talking down a player's production solely because he's a situational pass rusher when you've talked up production of another situational pass rusher without negating their success due to their role. Not their upside, not their future outlooks. Simply their production. Dismissing one while praising another is comically biased. Handled by whom? Please provide a specific example. I'm not outright denying the claim, but we've been down the road where my footage dives provided literally polar opposite counterexamples to the argued notions. The last example of Rashard Robinson shutting down Mike Evans in a literal sense could not have strayed further from the truth, and that was presented as a personally reviewed event, so it's increasingly difficult to take the eye-test accounts at face value.

Dumervil struggled with injuries in 2016 and was nowhere a world-beater, but he was generally productive and therefore an asset. I'm listing a specific number because he's 1st in the category. Does that place him as the best in that facet? Absolutely not. Nowhere near first from an ability standpoint. But the number does support the notion that he's been at least effective in that area. The phrase for all you know is reserved for assumptions. It isn't necessary to presume when the tape's available. In two games that I watched of Dumervil from this season, he stunted inside a combined three times. He faced the RT on most of his snaps, and on just two combined snaps did he see anyone other than an offensive lineman. One of them included a double from the TE and RB. How was his production schemed this season within your eye-test? Looking forward, if I had to wager, I wouldn't be surprised if his production saw a significant decline. He's currently too reliant on the rip after lining up at the eight or nine, and his lateral stiffness will remain an issue. But to this point, he's been effective in that facet, and a situational pass rusher is valuable on any team. Neither of the two points are entirely arguable.

The second point is also being missed here. The notion that players' values can be determined solely by the development of their market directly implies that every decision each FO makes is entirely accurate, which is a strange concept to back considering your criticisms of both moves that were made and moves that weren't. Let's think things through. You're proclaiming that our FO doesn't make the correct calls when it comes to whom we pursue. Then you judge players on whether FOs pursue said players. The concept works against itself. For example, coming off of multiple impressive seasons in coverage, including an outstanding rookie season, Casey Hayward drew a measly three-year, $15 million in the prime of his career. He goes on to play at an elite level, which anyone watching his Green Bay tape wouldn't have been overly surprised by. But apparently if his play reflected his ability, he would've been a hotter commodity, which it did, and he wasn't. It's a woefully shallow strategy for evaluating players. And lastly, I fail to understand the point of the bets. Not the Butler one in particular, but the general sentiment. From the bets of Robinson turning into a Top 3 corner, Michael Campanaro being superior as a WR to Julian Edelman and being on the same level as Brandin Cooks, to the posts with alleged insider information about Dom Campers wanting to sign Mike Neal over Mike Daniels because the former was a superior talent, the fact that some of these claims failed in their respective fashions blunts the impact of taking any future bets. There's nothing to gain in betting against them.
 
My point is that there's no objective method to talking down a player's production solely because he's a situational pass rusher when you've talked up production of another situational pass rusher without negating their success due to their role. Not their upside, not their future outlooks. Simply their production. Dismissing one while praising another is comically biased. Handled by whom? Please provide a specific example. I'm not outright denying the claim, but we've been down the road where my footage dives provided literally polar opposite counterexamples to the argued notions. The last example of Rashard Robinson shutting down Mike Evans in a literal sense could not have strayed further from the truth, and that was presented as a personally reviewed event, so it's increasingly difficult to take the eye-test accounts at face value.

Dumervil struggled with injuries in 2016 and was nowhere a world-beater, but he was generally productive and therefore an asset. I'm listing a specific number because he's 1st in the category. Does that place him as the best in that facet? Absolutely not. Nowhere near first from an ability standpoint. But the number does support the notion that he's been at least effective in that area. The phrase for all you know is reserved for assumptions. It isn't necessary to presume when the tape's available. In two games that I watched of Dumervil from this season, he stunted inside a combined three times. He faced the RT on most of his snaps, and on just two combined snaps did he see anyone other than an offensive lineman. One of them included a double from the TE and RB. How was his production schemed this season within your eye-test? Looking forward, if I had to wager, I wouldn't be surprised if his production saw a significant decline. He's currently too reliant on the rip after lining up at the eight or nine, and his lateral stiffness will remain an issue. But to this point, he's been effective in that facet, and a situational pass rusher is valuable on any team. Neither of the two points are entirely arguable.

The second point is also being missed here. The notion that players' values can be determined solely by the development of their market directly implies that every decision each FO makes is entirely accurate, which is a strange concept to back considering your criticisms of both moves that were made and moves that weren't. Let's think things through. You're proclaiming that our FO doesn't make the correct calls when it comes to whom we pursue. Then you judge players on whether FOs pursue said players. The concept works against itself. For example, coming off of multiple impressive seasons in coverage, including an outstanding rookie season, Casey Hayward drew a measly three-year, $15 million in the prime of his career. He goes on to play at an elite level, which anyone watching his Green Bay tape wouldn't have been overly surprised by. But apparently if his play reflected his ability, he would've been a hotter commodity, which it did, and he wasn't. It's a woefully shallow strategy for evaluating players. And lastly, I fail to understand the point of the bets. Not the Butler one in particular, but the general sentiment. From the bets of Robinson turning into a Top 3 corner, Michael Campanaro being superior as a WR to Julian Edelman and being on the same level as Brandin Cooks, to the posts with alleged insider information about Dom Campers wanting to sign Mike Neal over Mike Daniels because the former was a superior talent, the fact that some of these claims failed in their respective fashions blunts the impact of taking any future bets. There's nothing to gain in betting against them.

Dude I’m not reading all that so I skimmed. What are you really talking about?? Who ever compares Neal to Daniels?? Can sign them both dude. Different positions. Neal wouldn’t break the bank. Robinson has more talent than Humph I said. His head in the game I dunno. Who ever said market determined values?? I think Brice will outplay whatever he is paid. And somebody is obviously sore I roast the idea of signing declining cap cuts. Are u implying Dumervils stats say he isn’t declining?? And the player that handled him in 2015 was cardinals tackle. And yes I’m saying Dumervil isn’t as effective as stats imply. He would be a hotter commodity. Once again I’m going out on a limb and saying those numbers don’t match the eye test. And even if it did the ravens need every down players first b4 signing situational rushers. There is no longer a prime Suggs and Ngata to add pieces to. And dude what the hell are u squabbling about?? If u acknowledge he is likely to be useless next year?? It means he is somebody u shouldn’t sign. So y would u care about those crazy effectiveness numbers?? If he is somebody u shouldn’t sign cuz he could completely fall off the diving board. And if u wanna play who likes who to play well. How is Perriman doing?? At least camp has the raw skills to be a good slot of healthy in right situation. As does Robinson. Perriman was a bust the day his name was announced. As is Humph if u try matching him up on an island consistently like the top cornerbacks yes I said it again. What Lafell did to him isn’t jack shit to the deep fryer he is going to get dumped
 
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