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2021 Edge Thread

RaineV1

RaineV1

Ravens Ring of Honor
So, it's obvious that this is the single weakest part of our defense, and it could possibly get worse if we lose both free agents. If we could get a vet WR or two then Edge becomes the biggest glaring hole on the team.

There's two guys that are kinda flying under the radar that I really like, a late first rounder and a second rounder: Patrick Jones II and Joe Tryon.

Patrick Jones II

He's a bit of a jack of all trades. Good hand technique, good anchor when setting the edge, uses his length well, good instincts, keeps from being held up by o-linemen, decent bend and has an incredible first step. The only potential weaknesses I see is that he's purely a rusher and probably could use some time in an NFL weight room. Not the best scheme fit, but he's good enough that you change the scheme to fit him.

Joe Tryon

Just an amazing athlete for his size. Really bendy, uses his length really well, and really aggressive in getting after the QB. His ceiling is incredibly high. Again, could probably use a bit of time in an NFL weight room, but he has all the natural talent and abilities to be a long term, really productive edge rusher. Plus enough athletic ability to drop into zone coverage.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I’ve been extremely high on Patrick Jones for a long time now, very bursty, high energy player, has bend, has length, play strength needs improved so he’s gotta hit an nfl weight room hard and fast, desire to use hands is clearly there and with refinement he could be a very explosive edge defender all around, I think his floor is a solid rotational edge rusher and very solid pursuit defender.

I’m gonna brush up on my edge guys when I get a chance and post some more, haven’t watched much draft shit in a while so I’ll need refreshers on some guys I’ve been eyeing lately for day2/3, like Joshua kaindoh, jaelen Phillips, and daelin hayes.

looks like a quietly good and deep edge class.

Also what’s the deal with TDN.com mock generators basically declaring Gregory Rousseau a ravens at 27? He’s always falling to 27 all of a sudden when he was a top 10 lock the past year, did something come out about him?
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
Patrick Jones has had a pretty nice senior bowl so far - ive noticed him a few times when i wasnt paying attention (havent spent a ton of time watching the OL vs DL drills)
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Looking forward to a senior bowl breakdown from you, I’ve been intrigued by Patrick Jones for a while now. If you had to give him a range right now where would you put him?
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JoeyFlex5 said:
Looking forward to a senior bowl breakdown from you, I’ve been intrigued by Patrick Jones for a while now. If you had to give him a range right now where would you put him?
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too early to say - i havent done any work on the edge guys yet - not been a huge amount of OL vs DL reps so far on the broadcasts so all ive seen is basically just the team drill stuff where at one point Feliepe Franks managed to get "sacked" on like 5 straight plays lol

but Jones I think had at least 1 notable rush vs 1 of the LTs where he used some good hands and a nice burst to get around the edge for what I think would probably have been a sack (hard to tell sometimes when the QB's untouchable)
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
so the edge guys that stood out at the senior bowl and today they absolutely took over the show were Quincy Roche and Carlos Basham - Roche especially was absolutely dominating in both the run and pass sets in 1v1s and team drills - in fact he was dominating double teams in team drills

he's going to be a guy im really looking forward to getting to the tape on
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
been watching Joseph Ossai tape (not particularly impressed so far) and I have to say he's not catching my eye as much as Teven Jenkins the Oklahoma state tackle is blocking him (saw him throw Ossai 2 gaps to his left at one point and then about 3 snaps later absolutely pancake him at the point of attack) - jenkins will be a guy i look forward to watching when i get to some more OT tape
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
been watching Joseph Ossai tape (not particularly impressed so far) and I have to say he's not catching my eye as much as Teven Jenkins the Oklahoma state tackle is blocking him (saw him throw Ossai 2 gaps to his left at one point and then about 3 snaps later absolutely pancake him at the point of attack) - jenkins will be a guy i look forward to watching when i get to some more OT tape
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I wasn’t impressed by ossai either, not in the slightest.

azeez ojulari is interesting, I’ve been warming up to him, he’s like a more physical ngakoue, as in he has one awesome go to pass rush move that he uses very frequently and he’s deadly efficient in using it, and doesn’t do a whole lot else. That said, he’s still a bit of a specimen, very explosive movements and explosive strength and explosive hands.
 
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JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
so the edge guys that stood out at the senior bowl and today they absolutely took over the show were Quincy Roche and Carlos Basham - Roche especially was absolutely dominating in both the run and pass sets in 1v1s and team drills - in fact he was dominating double teams in team drills

he's going to be a guy im really looking forward to getting to the tape on
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I liked roche’s tape a lot, I was iffy on basham before he opted out of the 2020 draft, and I still am, he’s very physical and he’s very powerful and long and just plays like a bully, but he lacks bend and he’s too upright and maybe a little more raw than I’d like also.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JoeyFlex5 said:
I wasn’t impressed by ossai either, not in the slightest.

azeez ojulari is interesting, I’ve been warming up to him, he’s like a more physical ngakoue, as in he has one awesome go to pass rush move that he uses very frequently and he’s deadly efficient in using it, and doesn’t do a whole lot else. That said, he’s still a bit of a specimen, very explosive movements and explosive strength and explosive hands.
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it's almost exactly the same move as ngakoue lol - it's that jump cross-chop and then flatten to the QB - he has all the tools and a pass rush move that's really refined which suggests he can diversify - he can also win with raw athleticism too

both of those are really good things

what i would like to see is him develop some counters - at the moment he can sometimes get a bit stuck if his initial move doesnt work and just gets locked into a hand fight/wrestle rather than going to a secondary move/reactionary move

run defence is inconsistent

but he has the added bonus that he's got really nice coverage skills - really fluid dropping into his zone and reading the qb's eyes, head on a swivel and all that - really nice from a college edge prospect

i think ojulari is significantly helped by the fact that there's no real athletic freak in this class at the position which makes him maybe the most athletically gifted guy in the class
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JoeyFlex5 said:
I liked roche’s tape a lot, I was iffy on basham before he opted out of the 2020 draft, and I still am, he’s very physical and he’s very powerful and long and just plays like a bully, but he lacks bend and he’s too upright and maybe a little more raw than I’d like also.
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i just watched roche's tape - love how refined he is - he's a bit leaner than you'd like but he's athletic and has length and is so good with his hands already - the closest thing to a technician ive found in this edge class so far - really natural streaming together different moves when the initial rush doesnt work and it's pretty seamless but also has an arsenal of varied pass rush moves already - got the cross-chop, got your standard speed rusher's dip-and-rip, got a long-arm move, got an inside move and he'll use the moves on instinct as a reaction - if the tackle over-sets he'll stick him with the inside move and maybe swim over

todd mcshay said on the espn broadcast that he was a bad run defender and im not sure i agree with that (lots of things i disagree with todd mcshay about already lol) - he looked solid with lots of the tools you want - now would i want him to be better at taking on pullers... sure but does he get into offensive linemen, stack, read and shed... yes and then showed at the senior bowl that he can hold up at the LoS vs double teams and absolutely blow-up plays at the point of attack

also got some experience dropping into coverage - not as fluid as ojulari in coverage but the experience is helpful and he didn't look lost in that situation (in fact should have had a pick vs Clemson that he put on the ground - in the end it would have been negated by an offside anyway but heyho he read it well and drove on the ball (just another tool in his toolkit)

I haven't got to Basham on tape - but he was lined up a ton in the b-gap and even over the center at one point at the senior bowl - wasn't really given many reps on the edge - i would have liked to see him rush off the edge a few more times - but what ive seen so far looks encouraging (havent seen enough to comment on his bend or anything like that yet) he's got crazy violent hands and is really quick off the line both of those things i like
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
i just watched roche's tape - love how refined he is - he's a bit leaner than you'd like but he's athletic and has length and is so good with his hands already - the closest thing to a technician ive found in this edge class so far - really natural streaming together different moves when the initial rush doesnt work and it's pretty seamless but also has an arsenal of varied pass rush moves already - got the cross-chop, got your standard speed rusher's dip-and-rip, got a long-arm move, got an inside move and he'll use the moves on instinct as a reaction - if the tackle over-sets he'll stick him with the inside move and maybe swim over

todd mcshay said on the espn broadcast that he was a bad run defender and im not sure i agree with that (lots of things i disagree with todd mcshay about already lol) - he looked solid with lots of the tools you want - now would i want him to be better at taking on pullers... sure but does he get into offensive linemen, stack, read and shed... yes and then showed at the senior bowl that he can hold up at the LoS vs double teams and absolutely blow-up plays at the point of attack

also got some experience dropping into coverage - not as fluid as ojulari in coverage but the experience is helpful and he didn't look lost in that situation (in fact should have had a pick vs Clemson that he put on the ground - in the end it would have been negated by an offside anyway but heyho he read it well and drove on the ball (just another tool in his toolkit)

I haven't got to Basham on tape - but he was lined up a ton in the b-gap and even over the center at one point at the senior bowl - wasn't really given many reps on the edge - i would have liked to see him rush off the edge a few more times - but what ive seen so far looks encouraging (havent seen enough to comment on his bend or anything like that yet) he's got crazy violent hands and is really quick off the line both of those things i like
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Jaylon Ferguson is what I see in basham, I think basham is going to be more effective but
rossihunter2 said:
it's almost exactly the same move as ngakoue lol - it's that jump cross-chop and then flatten to the QB - he has all the tools and a pass rush move that's really refined which suggests he can diversify - he can also win with raw athleticism too

both of those are really good things

what i would like to see is him develop some counters - at the moment he can sometimes get a bit stuck if his initial move doesnt work and just gets locked into a hand fight/wrestle rather than going to a secondary move/reactionary move

run defence is inconsistent

but he has the added bonus that he's got really nice coverage skills - really fluid dropping into his zone and reading the qb's eyes, head on a swivel and all that - really nice from a college edge prospect

i think ojulari is significantly helped by the fact that there's no real athletic freak in this class at the position which makes him maybe the most athletically gifted guy in the class
Click to expand...
ojulari is a strange prospect for me, if we took him I’d be cautiously excited, I think he fits OUR mold, like if you were gonna list a prospect that looks specifically like a ravens OLB rather than just a standard edge rusher, ojulari would be it, because as you said he’s an all around LB and he generates pass rush with his hands as a lot of our edge rushers have done.

if that’s the prospect we choose to replace Judon with I can’t say they’re missing the mark, but I still wonder if that’s a good value, and idk why
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JoeyFlex5 said:
Jaylon Ferguson is what I see in basham, I think basham is going to be more effective but

ojulari is a strange prospect for me, if we took him I’d be cautiously excited, I think he fits OUR mold, like if you were gonna list a prospect that looks specifically like a ravens OLB rather than just a standard edge rusher, ojulari would be it, because as you said he’s an all around LB and he generates pass rush with his hands as a lot of our edge rushers have done.

if that’s the prospect we choose to replace Judon with I can’t say they’re missing the mark, but I still wonder if that’s a good value, and idk why
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i think with any 1st round edge it'll feel weirdly unvaluable (despite the value of the position around the league) because 1) we've not taken an edge rusher in the 1st round since 2003 when we took sizzle and 2) because of the way teams play us the value of a edge seems to be lower with the ball coming out so quick

idk if you feel differently about any of the other EDGE guys - but that's kind of how i feel about all of the edge guys not just ojulari
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
What I'm seeing (and especially at EDGE) is that the guys who opted out are (as you might expect) a lot rawer in general than the guys who played the extra year - it's not about recency bias (because in a lot of their cases ive not seen anything on any of them in 2019 or 2020 lol) - just think a lot of the guys could have done with the extra year of development but i respect the fact that they can opt-out for whatever reason they want and that's fine

just think some of these guys would have been well served by playing in 2020
 
Jacquouille

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
rossihunter2 said:
like i know right - thought id done all the big edge names and started watching - and was like.... ummm... this guy's like a top 5 edge in this class

the way a ton of media and draftniks have been rating and talking about edge guys is a mess

carl lawson was exactly who i was thinking of too
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I saw there we're some failed drug test and stuff si that's prob why he's not projected higher. But the tape is incredible.
 
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