2021 Edge Thread

[rossihunter2]

I saw there we're some failed drug test and stuff si that's prob why he's not projected higher. But the tape is incredible.

right but jaelan phillips was nearly medically retired lol and media have had no problems mentioning him at the top

but also lets be real - perkins drug suspension was for weed which is no longer an issue for the NFL

my guess is the NFL is a lot higher on him than the media and he'll be one of the guys who seems to rise out of nowhere (in the media) later in the process as these guys get more and more info from actual teams

to me he looks like a late 1st round/early 2nd type of player

 

[Jacquouille]

right but jaelan phillips was nearly medically retired lol and media have had no problems mentioning him at the top

but also lets be real - perkins drug suspension was for weed which is no longer an issue for the NFL

my guess is the NFL is a lot higher on him than the media and he'll be one of the guys who seems to rise out of nowhere (in the media) later in the process as these guys get more and more info from actual teams

to me he looks like a late 1st round/early 2nd type of player

Yah the media not caring that Philipps has the off field history of Jason Witten at 21 years old is mind boggling. Like how do you justify picking that in the first round? It's worse than Maurice Hurst imo.

I'll need more tape on Perkins but the OK State was late first Caliber.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yah the media not caring that Philipps has the off field history of Jason Witten at 21 years old is mind boggling. Like how do you justify picking that in the first round? It's worse than Maurice Hurst imo.

I'll need more tape on Perkins but the OK State was late first Caliber.

tbf that's probably his best game - but its not like it came out of nowhere - you see the same stuff all over all the games ive managed to watch so far

 

[JoeyFlex5]

azeez ojulari is becoming one of my main guys, hes a very instinctive and heads up kinda player, hes got that mosley/judon thing going where he knows when to bail on a loss and what to do to make up for it, he does a great job falling off of a double team and sniffing out the nearest throwing lane or finding the dump off, or even just backing off and looking for other openings rather than stay locked in on a blocker.

i dont mean to be cliche lol but if youre looking for a rookie OLB to play like a raven, he is kinda what i envision. plus he just has some great twitchy and explosive movements that he pairs well with powerful, well timed, and precise hands, he looks like he KNOWS how to play OLB and yet he still can add a lot of refinement and add some moves to his toolbelt, i think the right coach/scheme can make an absolute monster out of him and i think we are the exact team for him.

daelin hayes is a consolation prize to ojulari, hes another OLB who can rush and cover both at a very high level thanks to his explosiveness, flexibility, and heads up style of play that always sees him in the area to influence the play.

 

[Edgar]

Hamilcar Rashed is someone I really like. Not sure why his production dipped so severely...be interesting to find out but his 2019 tape is nice. Only one 2020 game available to watch and I see him very positively.
This youtube highlight reel is interesting. Shows plenty of him chasing backside, getting in throwing lanes, sniffing out screens in addition to pass rush.
No doubt in my mind he is a great athlete and a diamond in the rough if his 2020 concerns are vetted.

 

[rossihunter2]

Hamilcar Rashed is someone I really like. Not sure why his production dipped so severely...be interesting to find out but his 2019 tape is nice. Only one 2020 game available to watch and I see him very positively.
This youtube highlight reel is interesting. Shows plenty of him chasing backside, getting in throwing lanes, sniffing out screens in addition to pass rush.
No doubt in my mind he is a great athlete and a diamond in the rough if his 2020 concerns are vetted.

i had similar questions about his dip in production (and general play-level) - the only answers i could find related to him putting on some bulk between 19 and 20, dealing with some injuries, and i saw it suggested by some on twitter that he just generally looked disinterested which i find a bit odd as a suggestion given how relentless and high-effort he is on the field

flashed a bit at the senior bowl (in a good way) and he's got freakish bend, he's explosive and flattens - a pretty reactive rusher too (will take advantage of a lunge or a OL being hyper-aggressive) - he flashes some good hand usage

he does have lots of issues holding up at the point of attack though - he's not going to hold up on the front side of many running plays

but he's a very intriguing prospect - has some reps dropping into coverage and looked fairly fluid (didn't see a ton of reps of it so hard to project how good he actually is in coverage - but the movement skills look good)

if he can maintain the explosion he had while he was playing at 230lbs and stay up at the 254lbs he's a super exciting prospect

probably the earliest i'd touch him is at the very end of the 2nd round - but preferably more like the 3rd (and that's on the tape only - if there's character concerns etc. then obviously that would drop him a bit)

 

[Edgar]

i had similar questions about his dip in production (and general play-level) - the only answers i could find related to him putting on some bulk between 19 and 20, dealing with some injuries, and i saw it suggested by some on twitter that he just generally looked disinterested which i find a bit odd as a suggestion given how relentless and high-effort he is on the field

flashed a bit at the senior bowl (in a good way) and he's got freakish bend, he's explosive and flattens - a pretty reactive rusher too (will take advantage of a lunge or a OL being hyper-aggressive) - he flashes some good hand usage

he does have lots of issues holding up at the point of attack though - he's not going to hold up on the front side of many running plays

but he's a very intriguing prospect - has some reps dropping into coverage and looked fairly fluid (didn't see a ton of reps of it so hard to project how good he actually is in coverage - but the movement skills look good)

if he can maintain the explosion he had while he was playing at 230lbs and stay up at the 254lbs he's a super exciting prospect

probably the earliest i'd touch him is at the very end of the 2nd round - but preferably more like the 3rd (and that's on the tape only - if there's character concerns etc. then obviously that would drop him a bit)

The dip doesn't bother me as long as his head is on straight and there is some rational explanation.
In the clips I have watched, there appears to be some pretty good pressure from the rest of the front in 2019. Could be that those guys moved on.

Not much to watch but I liked him vs. Washington against the run. some araeness issues...little things like being hip to a WR crack block...not as quick as I would like in his drops...but there is no doubt, at least as I see it, he is a very, very good athlete...quick off the ball and explosive. has better technique against the run than the most of the edge guys I have watched. He knows to lock out and shed and find the ball.

I haven't seen him driven off the ball but it wouldn't surprise me if he needs refinement, some strength and will need a bit of run and polish.

a lot of the edge guys Ive watched seem one dimensional or not as clear a fit as Rashed for what we are looking for

 

[rossihunter2]

The dip doesn't bother me as long as his head is on straight and there is some rational explanation.
In the clips I have watched, there appears to be some pretty good pressure from the rest of the front in 2019. Could be that those guys moved on.

Not much to watch but I liked him vs. Washington against the run. some araeness issues...little things like being hip to a WR crack block...not as quick as I would like in his drops...but there is no doubt, at least as I see it, he is a very, very good athlete...quick off the ball and explosive. has better technique against the run than the most of the edge guys I have watched. He knows to lock out and shed and find the ball.

I haven't seen him driven off the ball but it wouldn't surprise me if he needs refinement, some strength and will need a bit of run and polish.

a lot of the edge guys Ive watched seem one dimensional or not as clear a fit as Rashed for what we are looking for

i mean partly it depends on who we're trying to replace - are we looking for our SAM to replace Bowser/Judon or are we looking for a RUSH to replace Ngakoue (and others we've had in that role)

or are we looking for both...

there's not a ton of well-rounded guys though - lots of athletic freaks with almost no refinement, lots of guys with speed and power but maybe not much bend, some guys with a decent toolkit of rush moves but no elite athleticism

the guy i'd say is the most rounded is probably jaelan phillips but he's also got some serious medical red flags - i love Ojulari as a fit here too albeit he's very one dimensional like you say - ronnie perkins is pretty well rounded as an EDGE (but probably not going to be dropping into coverage much)

someone I really like at the moment but isn't necessarily what we usually look for in the draft is Jordan Smith out of UAB - long EDGE but with explosion, bend and flexibility - again though you're looking at a guy who doesn't always seem to rush with a plan (which seems to be something you can say about 95% of this EDGE class) - but despite being 6'6 he plays with good leverage, flashes some nice hand usage and has some variance in his pass rush moves - he's fairly reliant right now on his athletic gifts but he's high effort and chases stuff down from the backside - he's inconsistent but frequently demonstrates reps vs both the pass and the run that he has multiple ways to win - he's even dropped into coverage a few times (albeit he's not going to make a living out there) - but he really caught my attention when i saw him at 6'6 use a ghost move to dip a tackle on the outside arc

 

[Edgar]

i mean partly it depends on who we're trying to replace - are we looking for our SAM to replace Bowser/Judon or are we looking for a RUSH to replace Ngakoue (and others we've had in that role)

or are we looking for both...

there's not a ton of well-rounded guys though - lots of athletic freaks with almost no refinement, lots of guys with speed and power but maybe not much bend, some guys with a decent toolkit of rush moves but no elite athleticism

the guy i'd say is the most rounded is probably jaelan phillips but he's also got some serious medical red flags - i love Ojulari as a fit here too albeit he's very one dimensional like you say - ronnie perkins is pretty well rounded as an EDGE (but probably not going to be dropping into coverage much)

someone I really like at the moment but isn't necessarily what we usually look for in the draft is Jordan Smith out of UAB - long EDGE but with explosion, bend and flexibility - again though you're looking at a guy who doesn't always seem to rush with a plan (which seems to be something you can say about 95% of this EDGE class) - but despite being 6'6 he plays with good leverage, flashes some nice hand usage and has some variance in his pass rush moves - he's fairly reliant right now on his athletic gifts but he's high effort and chases stuff down from the backside - he's inconsistent but frequently demonstrates reps vs both the pass and the run that he has multiple ways to win - he's even dropped into coverage a few times (albeit he's not going to make a living out there) - but he really caught my attention when i saw him at 6'6 use a ghost move to dip a tackle on the outside arc

You recommended Perkins to me and I thought he stood out as well.

 

[Edgar]

@JoeyFlex5
@rossihunter2

Just watched my first game of Azeez.(vs Alabama) Three of the plays that stood out;

Identifies the pull...out leverages and sets the edge then sheds guard - they were looking to run ISO with the back leading...he squeezes and takes that away

off LT side rush - violent hands..explosive. watch the tackle whiff and grab air cement footed as he turns the edge

doesn't get driven off ball by bigger man because he reads and gets quickly to the edge to seal it. gets hands off first

 

[rossihunter2]

@JoeyFlex5
@rossihunter2

Just watched my first game of Azeez.(vs Alabama) Three of the plays that stood out;
View attachment 2604

Identifies the pull...out leverages and sets the edge then sheds guard - they were looking to run ISO with the back leading...he squeezes and takes that away
View attachment 2605
off LT side rush - violent hands..explosive. watch the tackle whiff and grab air cement footed as he turns the edge
View attachment 2606
doesn't get driven off ball by bigger man because he reads and gets quickly to the edge to seal it. gets hands off first

he's played the pullers really well against Bama




that's no scrub he's beating in that 2nd clip either - leatherwood's a nice prospect (albeit struggled with speedier guys) - but ojulari uses that cross chop a ton all over his tape - i know you weren't the biggest fan of ngakoue but i do enjoy that cross chop move that's his signature move

 

[Edgar]

he's played the pullers really well against Bama




that's no scrub he's beating in that 2nd clip either - leatherwood's a nice prospect (albeit struggled with speedier guys) - but ojulari uses that cross chop a ton all over his tape - i know you weren't the biggest fan of ngakoue but i do enjoy that cross chop move that's his signature move

Just did a youtube of the Alabama game. Those take ons are as much about the squeezing as they are the block take on. He sees the tackle go away...squeezes and takes the designed gap away along with setting the edge. film study and play recognition.

awesome hand usage when rushing...I believe his hands are largely innate...kinda rare.

 

[Edgar]

 

[rossihunter2]

Just did a youtube of the Alabama game. Those take ons are as much about the squeezing as they are the block take on. He sees the tackle go away...squeezes and takes the designed gap away along with setting the edge. film study and play recognition.

awesome hand usage when rushing...I believe his hands are largely innate...kinda rare.

i think that's definitely a good way of thinking about him as a rusher in terms of his hands just being quite intuitive - he's got that cross-chop - but the vast majority of his pass rushes including that cross-chop seem to stem from a long-arm move initially... there's an emphasis there on using his length and his hands to create an advantage for himself and then he works off that long-arm into his other moves with really nice reactive hands

he'll have to add some variation in the pros but that's a great starting point

 

[JoeyFlex5]

good stuff @Edgar @rossihunter2

hes got that quick processor, he picks up on keys very fast and nails his assignment with authority, whether its being physical enough to take on a pulling deonte brown or having the juice to close in quickly when theres a window or if its just being athletic enough to get off of an assignment and go chase the ballcarrier when needed, and hes a natural LB rather than an "edge", he just has maybe not elite pass rush potential but very very high.

actually a little bit like a cj mosley in a juiced up edge rusher form, hes doing litte things to seriously influence plays, approaching blocks in different angles to interrupt the flow of the play rather than just trying to beat the man, knowing where to apply that extra bit of contact to affect a pull or to make a ball carrier lose a touch of momentum in the backfield, like savvy intuitive shit. you guys do a good job keeping tabs on everything you find, i appreciate yall cramming great footage together the way you do lol, its really helped me get a good eye on certain prospects.

might i suggest taking a look at payton turner, also daelin hayes, if you like ojulari well hayes is cut from the same cloth, hes a real OLB with very high pass rush potential, and payton turner is just a freak and a dog of an edge rusher, big and powerful and violent and long, and looks like a supreme athlete on tape, hes not the most flexible and would probably test average in a fair number of categories, but man he can use those long arms and big ol mitts and he has a lot of juice when he sees an opportunity to commit his burst, closing speed in the backfield looks real impressive at his size, and he has a surprising ability to change directions and explode out as long as he isnt having to decelerate too much before changing direction. violent benchpress/2 hand swat combination he uses well to crash inside against the run and counter inside against the pass, just a great ability to get low and extend into the blocker and create openings in the front. looks a bit like what i think the ravens envisioned from jaylon ferguson, except i think this guy might actually have the tools to become that guy.

 

[rossihunter2]

good stuff @Edgar @rossihunter2

hes got that quick processor, he picks up on keys very fast and nails his assignment with authority, whether its being physical enough to take on a pulling deonte brown or having the juice to close in quickly when theres a window or if its just being athletic enough to get off of an assignment and go chase the ballcarrier when needed, and hes a natural LB rather than an "edge", he just has maybe not elite pass rush potential but very very high.

actually a little bit like a cj mosley in a juiced up edge rusher form, hes doing litte things to seriously influence plays, approaching blocks in different angles to interrupt the flow of the play rather than just trying to beat the man, knowing where to apply that extra bit of contact to affect a pull or to make a ball carrier lose a touch of momentum in the backfield, like savvy intuitive shit. you guys do a good job keeping tabs on everything you find, i appreciate yall cramming great footage together the way you do lol, its really helped me get a good eye on certain prospects.

might i suggest taking a look at payton turner, also daelin hayes, if you like ojulari well hayes is cut from the same cloth, hes a real OLB with very high pass rush potential, and payton turner is just a freak and a dog of an edge rusher, big and powerful and violent and long, and looks like a supreme athlete on tape, hes not the most flexible and would probably test average in a fair number of categories, but man he can use those long arms and big ol mitts and he has a lot of juice when he sees an opportunity to commit his burst, closing speed in the backfield looks real impressive at his size, and he has a surprising ability to change directions and explode out as long as he isnt having to decelerate too much before changing direction. violent benchpress/2 hand swat combination he uses well to crash inside against the run and counter inside against the pass, just a great ability to get low and extend into the blocker and create openings in the front. looks a bit like what i think the ravens envisioned from jaylon ferguson, except i think this guy might actually have the tools to become that guy.

you're absolutely right about daelin hayes - idk that he's ever going to stand out traits-wise but he's very well rounded and fits the exact kind of mould of the type of player we'd normally pick in the 4th/5th round if they made it there - a solid guy with production who was overlooked because he didn't have an elite athletic trait

Payton Turner's interesting because of how powerful he is and because of that arsenal of pass rush moves he has (swim, bull, push-pull, dip, chop/rip, long-arm) - but i would say his hands are inconsistent but active - i just struggle to envision him ever being a true threat off the edge because he only has a bit of first-step quickness

but again he'd be a guy i'm sure we'd be interested in when we get to mid-day 3 or later

 

[JoeyFlex5]

@Edgar put me on to Hamilcar rashed, definitely like him a lot

 

[Edgar]

@RaineV1
Well, Thanks a lot for turning me on to Zaven Collins! He is unbelievable. If by some chance he was there or we were to move/have another first round pick....man you talk about a tremendous LB corp/defense.

 

[RaineV1]

@RaineV1
Well, Thanks a lot for turning me on to Zaven Collins! He is unbelievable. If by some chance he was there or we were to move/have another first round pick....man you talk about a tremendous LB corp/defense.

I don't want to hype him too much and get attached, but he really reminds me of Peter Boulware. Just has incredible athleticism, great instincts, and can rush or cover equally as well. He's also just a perfect fit for Wink's defense.

 

[rossihunter2]

@JoeyFlex5 - just did Cam Sample - looks like a decent day 3 candidate to me - not overly athletic (albeit not particularly limited athletically either) - but he's powerful - those hands are really violent and can shock which is nice - plays with good leverage which makes his bull rush pretty effective and in 2020 he was pretty good working off of that bull to a secondary move or countering - looked good as a run defender

pretty stiff and unremarkable athlete though which makes it unlikely he'll ever be particularly dangerous as an edge rusher - but he has a dynamism about his game especially with his hands that looks like he could be very effective rushing on the interior

and i like how he takes any snap he loses personally - high effort, will absolutely outwork the guy across from him - plays with aggression

someone i'd be very content with taking in that mid-4th onwards range