Erhardt Perkins, WCO and Air Cordell Discussion

[RavensMania]

Erhardt Perkins has one or two word play calls and is extremely quarterback friendly. I was actually hoping they would fire Mornhinweg in the offseason and replace him with someone who’ll could put this in place.

Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins were offensive assistants for the New England Patriots when Chuck Fairbanks was head coach. Fairbanks was a defensive minded coach and erhardt and Perkins wanted to develop a qb friendly system that was easy to learn using simple verbiage( that could defy the test of time)

It was a run first system until Charlie Weis joined the Patriots and modernized the offensive system. Instead of it being a simplified passing offense to minimize the duties of the quarterback, he enhanced the options available to any given play.

The offense was designed to have efficient play calls using two words versus the long play calls of the west coast offense and Air Cordell systems. The drawbacks to the WCO and Air Cordell is each part of the play call is designed for different players. These play calls make it very difficult to run a fast paced offense for long periods of time throughout the game.

The play calls for the Erhardt Perkins are two words that are based in code, i.e. Circus Kings. An example to an audible in the Air Cordell system is 368 Y Flat or WCO Spider 2 Y Banana. The Problem with this type of audible is that you just gave the defense your play. With the Erhardt Perkins the qb could be approaching the line and not like the defensive formation and only kill half the play, whereas the new play would be Circus Judy. Multiple formations and players can be run from any given play. There is a ton of flexibility.

Erhardt Perkins was originally designed for teams to pass when trying to score and run to win. It was only in later years that the ideas were flipped when they realized the simple terminology actually enhanced the passing game.

 

[gtalk12]

this is interesting

 

[Dom McRaven]

See, if the offensive line could be more trustworthy, I would prefer a downfield passing offense following a strong running game.

 

[Willbacker]

See, if the offensive line could be more trustworthy, I would prefer a downfield passing offense following a strong running game.

Then you'd be liking the Air Coryell system but the Raider offense was running exactly what you like in the 70's which is why Al Davis based a lot of his drafts on speed. The Air Coryell system was probally the 1st passed based system in the NFL and started the pass revolution cuz of its success. Dan Marino if playing in this system would have won multiple SB's imo. The WCO offense totally doesn't fit Joe's strengths but the Ehrhart/Perkins offense could with the simple terminology which I have to admit I don't know too much about this offense but its interesting.

 

[RavensMania]

The Air Coryell offense was originally called the West Coast Offense until an article in Sports Illustrated incorrectly called Bill Walsh’s San Francisco Offense, The WCO.

 

[Oldfaithful]

As bad as Joe has struggled overall this season, I do believe that keeping the WCO is a bad move for Joe's sake. Not a good WCO QB. He can hit WRs in stride but that's like telling Anderson Silva to do BJJ in the octagon. He can do it, but it's not his strength. You see, with Kubiak, aka an offensive genius, he knew how to play to Joe's strengths. Sure, we threw a lot of bootlegs , but also did a lot of intermediate and deep stuff. I'd kill to have him back.

I don't think Marty's playcalling is necessarily the whole issue. But his style of the WCO doesn't fit. I think Roman would be a better WCO solely because he made Kaepernick and Tyrod go deep far more often and knew how to play to both of their strengths whilst establishing a run game.

That said, if I had my pick at an OC from any other team for Joe, it'd be Wisenhunt.

But yeah, I agree. Flacco isn't a WCO QB. It'd be like asking Peyton Manning to go deep on most plays. It just wouldn't work as well.

Not sure, but when the coaching staff is canned, I'm not sure what system we are going to install. It's clearly not working.

 

[RavensMania]

As bad as Joe has struggled overall this season, I do believe that keeping the WCO is a bad move for Joe's sake. Not a good WCO QB. He can hit WRs in stride but that's like telling Anderson Silva to do BJJ in the octagon. He can do it, but it's not his strength. You see, with Kubiak, aka an offensive genius, he knew how to play to Joe's strengths. Sure, we threw a lot of bootlegs , but also did a lot of intermediate and deep stuff. I'd kill to have him back.

I don't think Marty's playcalling is necessarily the whole issue. But his style of the WCO doesn't fit. I think Roman would be a better WCO solely because he made Kaepernick and Tyrod go deep far more often and knew how to play to both of their strengths whilst establishing a run game.

That said, if I had my pick at an OC from any other team for Joe, it'd be Wisenhunt.

But yeah, I agree. Flacco isn't a WCO QB. It'd be like asking Peyton Manning to go deep on most plays. It just wouldn't work as well.

Not sure, but when the coaching staff is canned, I'm not sure what system we are going to install. It's clearly not working.

I actually don’t believe Roman would pigeon hole them to a specific type of offense. He has the capability to design a system to the players strengths. Roman fan spread concepts in San Francisco to help Alex Smith succeed and this was the first time he had success in the NFL. Andy Reid is using some of these same concepts on KC.

The better coaches don’t pigeon hole. Sean McVay is the most recent example of this. He came to the Rams after two years as an OC for the Skins, running Jay Gruden West Coast Offense and a couple years as a tight ends coach for the skins as well. He is now running a spread offense for the Rams.

I’m sick of coaches coming and saying this is what we are going to do (offensively and defensively) instead of looking at the strengths of the players and designing an offense around the players.

 

[Inqui]

If anyone's interested in reading more about the EP system (and if they're interested in why I'm still mad at ESPN for pulling the pin on Grantland) this article from a while back is great reading.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

 

[Willbacker]

The Air Coryell offense was originally called the West Coast Offense until an article in Sports Illustrated incorrectly called Bill Walsh’s San Francisco Offense, The WCO.

Never knew that especially when the Air Coryell system was more a downfield attack while Walsh's system basically used the pass instead of the run to gain yardage.

Possible interesting sidenote but the Dolphin/49er SB is what really got me into paying attention to football when my cousin basically robbed me of 20$ on a bet and I'm thinking this is easy money cuz of Dan the man and the Marks brothers and then all I did was watch Montana dink and dunk all day while I'm thinking why the hell this couldn't be stopped. Trust me 20$ was a big deal to an 18 yr old kid.

 

[RavensMania]

Belichick has been involved with Erhardt Perkins from back in his days as defensive coordinator of the giants when Parcells was using it.

BTW, great article and I agree grantland never should have been cancelled. One name not mentioned regarding Coryell is Joe Gibbs, who was Coryells OC before becoming head coach of the Washington Redskins. He started off pass first in Washington back in 1981 before changing his offense on the fly and winning his final 8 of 11 games in his initial year. He saw the strengths of the players and modified his coryell approach to be more run based aroundna terrific offensive line and running back. One thing Gibbs used to say is that his offense changed over 30% every year. The great coaches only constant is change.

 

[RavensMania]

Never knew that especially when the Air Coryell system was more a downfield attack while Walsh's system basically used the pass instead of the run to gain yardage.

Possible interesting sidenote but the Dolphin/49er SB is what really got me into paying attention to football when my cousin basically robbed me of 20$ on a bet and I'm thinking this is easy money cuz of Dan the man and the Marks brothers and then all I did was watch Montana dink and dunk all day while I'm thinking why the hell this couldn't be stopped. Trust me 20$ was a big deal to an 18 yr old kid.

Yeah, I was about the same age at that point and also thought the Dolphins would win that game. I, unlike you, didn’t have money on the game. On a side note, I did bet 50 when the skins played the broncos a few years later. I was a bit nervous when the skins went down 10-0 in the first quarter. Then they changed there Kleets and erupted in the 2nd half. It’s like they put them in a fals sense of security. Back the. reeves was coach of of the broncos, mike Shanahan was the OC and Gary Kubiak was the backup qb.

 

[Dom McRaven]

Then you'd be liking the Air Coryell system but the Raider offense was running exactly what you like in the 70's which is why Al Davis based a lot of his drafts on speed. The Air Coryell system was probally the 1st passed based system in the NFL and started the pass revolution cuz of its success. Dan Marino if playing in this system would have won multiple SB's imo. The WCO offense totally doesn't fit Joe's strengths but the Ehrhart/Perkins offense could with the simple terminology which I have to admit I don't know too much about this offense but its interesting.

Didn't we run some sort of Air Coryell when Cam was here? The more I think about it without pulling up the raw data, I think Flacco had more favorable TD/INT ratios under that system than the WCO. I'll just never understand why we keep throwing these flat routes and expect our guys to get a lot of YAC when every defensive player and their mother is anticipating it.

 

[Dom McRaven]

I remember the very first preseason game against the Skins this season where they showed a graphic that from 2008-12 we had a top 5 rushing attack. From 2013-16, that number fell to like 25 or 26. I mean, that's pretty damn telling right there.

 

[3-4ravdef509]

I remember the very first preseason game against the Skins this season where they showed a graphic that from 2008-12 we had a top 5 rushing attack. From 2013-16, that number fell to like 25 or 26. I mean, that's pretty damn telling right there.

I don't think we were top 5 every one of those years... but maybe I'm wrong. I thought it dropped off 2011-2012.

It was still decent though

 

[RavensMania]

Didn't we run some sort of Air Coryell when Cam was here? The more I think about it without pulling up the raw data, I think Flacco had more favorable TD/INT ratios under that system than the WCO. I'll just never understand why we keep throwing these flat routes and expect our guys to get a lot of YAC when every defensive player and their mother is anticipating it.

Especially when Flacco doesn’t throw his receivers open or throw to a point to even allow this to happen. He waits for his receivers to get open before throwing the ball. The WCO is the last offense he should be in.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Especially when Flacco doesn’t throw his receivers open or throw to a point to even allow this to happen. He waits for his receivers to get open before throwing the ball. The WCO is the last offense he should be in.

In 2014 joe was throwing his receivers open quite well. He can do it very well if he is protected in a clean pocket. But when pressured he isn't nearly accurate and poised enough for it.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Didn't we run some sort of Air Coryell when Cam was here? The more I think about it without pulling up the raw data, I think Flacco had more favorable TD/INT ratios under that system than the WCO. I'll just never understand why we keep throwing these flat routes and expect our guys to get a lot of YAC when every defensive player and their mother is anticipating it.

Cam did run a version of the coryell, and it didn't do well at all until we got 2 speedsters and were able to isolate our most efficient catchers in rice pitta and boldin, he also ran a way too simplified playbook that was basically go routes and the occasional threat of an end around. His run game was solid though, I miss the shitloads of pre snap motions followed up by a 5+ yard dive up the middle, with a simple run game it doesn't hurt to try adding a bit of pre snap confusion.

The annoying thing is we ran a coryell for years with a west coast roster and went west coast when we built a coryell roster.

 

[RavensMania]

In 2014 joe was throwing his receivers open quite well. He can do it very well if he is protected in a clean pocket. But when pressured he isn't nearly accurate and poised enough for it.

This would be true of any qb

 

[Adreme]

This would be true of any qb

Hmmmmm I can think of quite a few who cannot pull that off.

 

[Willbacker]

Didn't we run some sort of Air Coryell when Cam was here? The more I think about it without pulling up the raw data, I think Flacco had more favorable TD/INT ratios under that system than the WCO. I'll just never understand why we keep throwing these flat routes and expect our guys to get a lot of YAC when every defensive player and their mother is anticipating it.

Yes we ran a form of the AC with the more downfield throws but we ran the ball a ton more than the wing and fling days of Dan Fouts.

Cam did run a version of the coryell, and it didn't do well at all until we got 2 speedsters and were able to isolate our most efficient catchers in rice pitta and boldin, he also ran a way too simplified playbook that was basically go routes and the occasional threat of an end around. His run game was solid though, I miss the shitloads of pre snap motions followed up by a 5+ yard dive up the middle, with a simple run game it doesn't hurt to try adding a bit of pre snap confusion.

The annoying thing is we ran a coryell for years with a west coast roster and went west coast when we built a coryell roster.

Bingo. I've brought this up before. I mean it doesn't hurt to see them change the defense or just see if they're playing man to man or not.

The last line kills me cuz that's 100% fact.