Erhardt Perkins, WCO and Air Cordell Discussion

[JoeyFlex5]

Yes we ran a form of the AC with the more downfield throws but we ran the ball a ton more than the wing and fling days of Dan Fouts.



Bingo. I've brought this up before. I mean it doesn't hurt to see them change the defense or just see if they're playing man to man or not.

The last line kills me cuz that's 100% fact.

we made leron McClain a pro bowler under the premise of pre snap motions. We were constantly moving the TE in and out of the FB spot, motioning WRs across the whole field and drawing safeties elsewhere. Idk why these WCO coordinators are so afraid of it

 

[RavensMania]

Hmmmmm I can think of quite a few who cannot pull that off.

That’s my point.

 

[RavensMania]

Yes we ran a form of the AC with the more downfield throws but we ran the ball a ton more than the wing and fling days of Dan Fouts.



Bingo. I've brought this up before. I mean it doesn't hurt to see them change the defense or just see if they're playing man to man or not.

The last line kills me cuz that's 100% fact.

It’s a shame the chargers of the AC system didn’t have a good defense, but I’m sure the Air Coryell had something to do with the defense not doing well. Joe Gibbs had that offense mastered though, while coordinator in the late 70s early 80s before moving on to the skins.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Erhardt Perkins has one or two word play calls and is extremely quarterback friendly. I was actually hoping they would fire Mornhinweg in the offseason and replace him with someone who’ll could put this in place.

Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins were offensive assistants for the New England Patriots when Chuck Fairbanks was head coach. Fairbanks was a defensive minded coach and erhardt and Perkins wanted to develop a qb friendly system that was easy to learn using simple verbiage( that could defy the test of time)

It was a run first system until Charlie Weis joined the Patriots and modernized the offensive system. Instead of it being a simplified passing offense to minimize the duties of the quarterback, he enhanced the options available to any given play.

The offense was designed to have efficient play calls using two words versus the long play calls of the west coast offense and Air Cordell systems. The drawbacks to the WCO and Air Cordell is each part of the play call is designed for different players. These play calls make it very difficult to run a fast paced offense for long periods of time throughout the game.

The play calls for the Erhardt Perkins are two words that are based in code, i.e. Circus Kings. An example to an audible in the Air Cordell system is 368 Y Flat or WCO Spider 2 Y Banana. The Problem with this type of audible is that you just gave the defense your play. With the Erhardt Perkins the qb could be approaching the line and not like the defensive formation and only kill half the play, whereas the new play would be Circus Judy. Multiple formations and players can be run from any given play. There is a ton of flexibility.

Erhardt Perkins was originally designed for teams to pass when trying to score and run to win. It was only in later years that the ideas were flipped when they realized the simple terminology actually enhanced the passing game.

Very interesting. But, Air Coryell made the offenses pretty simple too. As an example if we have good route running WRs and an intelligent QB, this may have been the best as illustrated by this simple chart:
View attachment 284 View attachment 284

 

[Dom McRaven]

I don't think we were top 5 every one of those years... but maybe I'm wrong. I thought it dropped off 2011-2012.

It was still decent though

I meant by collectively during those seasons, not necessarily an individual season. Definitely should've clarified on that.

Especially when Flacco doesn’t throw his receivers open or throw to a point to even allow this to happen. He waits for his receivers to get open before throwing the ball. The WCO is the last offense he should be in.

No kidding. And what's worse is that defenses seem to really anticipate our short throws (which really drives me insane).

Cam did run a version of the coryell, and it didn't do well at all until we got 2 speedsters and were able to isolate our most efficient catchers in rice pitta and boldin, he also ran a way too simplified playbook that was basically go routes and the occasional threat of an end around. His run game was solid though, I miss the shitloads of pre snap motions followed up by a 5+ yard dive up the middle, with a simple run game it doesn't hurt to try adding a bit of pre snap confusion.

The annoying thing is we ran a coryell for years with a west coast roster and went west coast when we built a coryell roster.

I miss those pre-snap motions. I don't see many of them and when it does happen, it's very.....subtle (for lack of a better word). And I so "love" how we ran jet sweeps with only Camps who of course is out for Sunday's game.

The last sentence basically describes our offensive woes in a nutshell.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Very interesting. But, Air Coryell made the offenses pretty simple too. As an example if we have good route running WRs and an intelligent QB, this may have been the best as illustrated by this simple chart:
View attachment 284 View attachment 284

Isn't that the run n' shoot philosophy?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

In 2014 joe was throwing his receivers open quite well. He can do it very well if he is protected in a clean pocket. But when pressured he isn't nearly accurate and poised enough for it.

Flaccos accuracy is too streaky. He may have done it at times but he's never been able to do it consistently and reliably.

 

[RavensMania]

Isn't that the run n' shoot philosophy?

Definitely not the run and shoot. Much different play calling. I’m a fan of Air Coryell as well, but feel Erhardt Perkins would work better.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Isn't that the run n' shoot philosophy?

Yes it is. The team that best epitomized that was the Rams 'greatest show on turf' led by Mike Martz. The passing game essentially worked incredibly well because they had a great RB in Faulk. There was nothing like watching that offense.

 

[RavensMania]

Yes it is. The team that best epitomized that was the Rams 'greatest show on turf' led by Mike Martz. The passing game essentially worked incredibly well because they had a great RB in Faulk. There was nothing like watching that offense.

Mike Martz ran the Air Coryell system, not Run and Shoot. Mark Martz worked under Ernie Zampese and Norv Turner, both of whom are Air Coryell disciples.

Ernie Zampese worked in San Diego directly with Don Coryell. He was also with the Rams, while Norv Turner was WR coach. What goes around tends to comes around. In an attempt to keep the cowboys offense similar when Turner left for Washington, Ernie Zampese became offensive coordinator of the Cowboys.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Mike Martz ran the Air Coryell system, not Run and Shoot. Mark Martz worked under Ernie Zampese and Norv Turner, both of whom are Air Coryell disciples.

Ernie Zampese worked in San Diego directly with Don Coryell. He was also with the Rams, while Norv Turner was WR coach. What goes around tends to comes around. In an attempt to keep the cowboys offense similar when Turner left for Washington, Ernie Zampese became offensive coordinator of the Cowboys.

You are right. I got it mixed up.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

If Joe is protected in the right system he could consistently throw receivers open. Joe needs a clean pocket more than any QB. With a dominant OLine Joe is as accurate and throws as beautiful a throw as any QB in the league. If he is pressured he is a bottom 10 QB. This thread talking about high impact coordinators makes you think of the weapons in those offenses. And get irritated at the front office incompetence drafting WRs.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Definitely not the run and shoot. Much different play calling. I’m a fan of Air Coryell as well, but feel Erhardt Perkins would work better.

Isn't the run and shoot just fully improvised individual routes based on defensive alignments? Which would be what that simplified playbook is..

 

[RavensMania]

Isn't the run and shoot just fully improvised individual routes based on defensive alignments? Which would be what that simplified playbook is..

Air Coryell isn’t a simplified playbook, but it is true with Run and Shoot there is a bit of improvisation by the WRs.

 

[RavensMania]

Bleacher Report Article On Air Coryell
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1095991-football-101-deep-shots-with-the-air-coryell-offense

 

[RavensMania]

Grantland Article about June Jones and the Run and Shoot

In the middle of the article it goes into detail about the Run and Shoot
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/j...-and-likely-end-of-the-run-and-shoot-offense/

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Bleacher Report Article On Air Coryell
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1095991-football-101-deep-shots-with-the-air-coryell-offense

Real Good articles dude!!

 

[Sledge Hammer]

I'm sure everybody knows by now I favor ravens being an offense based team. I don't care how good your defense is. Unless you are the 2000 ravens you are gonna have to win a shootout at some juncture. All this talk of The shootout at legion of booms corral it isn't the seahawks inaugural shootout!! Like the media is implying. Not even close!!

Anyways I wouldn't want a totally useless defense but I would prefer ravens be an offense cultured team. In my opinion it begins with the Oline. Joe is struggling with a somewhat subpar Oline. Andy in cinci is struggling badly even with a plethora of weapons. Now behind good olines Andy doesn't have anywhere close to laser accurate strong arm Joe Flacco has fronted behind that dominant Super Bowl line. But nonetheless Andy is very effective with a good line.

So as fun as Billicks defenses were I would prefer ravens be offensively cultured. I do think Joe can be the right QB. If the Oline is dominant and system and weapons are at least very good. My opinion it begins with the offensive line. The line we could be fronting is Stanley Osemele Jensen Yanda Robinson which is the best in the NFL and a line the Ravens could realistically have. Robinson is the player I wanted to trade down for and draft!!

The system I like is the air coryell offense with shades of the west coast offenses timing and cocktail of run throw mixture to keep opponents guessing. Then of course ravens would need receivers that can win on multiple levels on multiple facets. Allen Robinson would be awesome for the ravens. Paul Richardson is a stud as well. Although not the size of Robinson, An explosive weapon!! If he can play this yr without hitting I.r. He will be one of the best WRs in football over next 8 games. Then draft Calvin Ridley. If Dixon can keep off the I.r. He would be a great dual threat. Then of course ravens would need at least a competent TE. Max is never gonna be a hard worker. So a competent Vet TE in free agency is needed.

 

[Willbacker]

Bleacher Report Article On Air Coryell
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1095991-football-101-deep-shots-with-the-air-coryell-offense

Come to think of it the flex TE may have 1st been incorporated by the AC offense. It made me think about it when I seen Winslow flexed in the image they showed.

I'm sure everybody knows by now I favor ravens being an offense based team. I don't care how good your defense is. Unless you are the 2000 ravens you are gonna have to win a shootout at some juncture. All this talk of The shootout at legion of booms corral it isn't the seahawks inaugural shootout!! Like the media is implying. Not even close!!

Anyways I wouldn't want a totally useless defense but I would prefer ravens be an offense cultured team. In my opinion it begins with the Oline. Joe is struggling with a somewhat subpar Oline. Andy in cinci is struggling badly even with a plethora of weapons. Now behind good olines Andy doesn't have anywhere close to laser accurate strong arm Joe Flacco has fronted behind that dominant Super Bowl line. But nonetheless Andy is very effective with a good line.

So as fun as Billicks defenses were I would prefer ravens be offensively cultured. I do think Joe can be the right QB. If the Oline is dominant and system and weapons are at least very good. My opinion it begins with the offensive line. The line we could be fronting is Stanley Osemele Jensen Yanda Robinson which is the best in the NFL and a line the Ravens could realistically have. Robinson is the player I wanted to trade down for and draft!!

The system I like is the air coryell offense with shades of the west coast offenses timing and cocktail of run throw mixture to keep opponents guessing. Then of course ravens would need receivers that can win on multiple levels on multiple facets. Allen Robinson would be awesome for the ravens. Paul Richardson is a stud as well. Although not the size of Robinson, An explosive weapon!! If he can play this yr without hitting I.r. He will be one of the best WRs in football over next 8 games. Then draft Calvin Ridley. If Dixon can keep off the I.r. He would be a great dual threat. Then of course ravens would need at least a competent TE. Max is never gonna be a hard worker. So a competent Vet TE in free agency is needed.

Funny thing is Billick actually incorporated the AC to his passing schemes. Remember when he was OC with the Vikes with the likes of Randy Moss,Cris Carter and Jake Reed. Man what a threesome and they was chuckin it. Too bad Billick never had a threesome like that here.

 

[Sledge Hammer]

Come to think of it the flex TE may have 1st been incorporated by the AC offense. It made me think about it when I seen Winslow flexed in the image they showed



Funny thing is Billick actually incorporated the AC to his passing schemes. Remember when he was OC with the Vikes with the likes of Randy Moss,Cris Carter and Jake Reed. Man what a threesome and they was chuckin it. Too bad Billick never had a threesome like that here.

Ravens could sign one of Allen Robinson Paul Richardson and Marqise Lee. Then draft Calvin Ridley. Ravens offense reputation and culture would change pretty fast!!lol Then If some of these defensive picks begin to shine. The ravens could very well become an offensive and defensive powerhouse around the league.