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2022 General Draft Thoughts

UPennChem said:
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nothing new there - just a compilation of stuff we've known about for a while

people need to stop worrying about top 30 visits and the ravens lol... they're normally meaningless in telling you who the ravens will pick in the 1st round

we normally meet with guys we have questions about or guys we're using to throw of the scent

notable that we've only brought in 2 "top" guys for visits so far (booth and penning)... also worth noting that we've only got about 7 or 8 prospects who've publicly been in for visits...
 
Deebo813 said:
I was referring to game play but as much as a freak jordan is, he only had 2 sacks and was only 2 down player who wasnt conditioned well.. thats all im getting at. I wouldnt be upset if picked him but he would have to show me thst he is more than just a 2 down run stuffer or he will forever be trash lol.
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right but the whole point of this process is it's about projection not just production - if it was only about production it would be the easiest job in the world...

you have to look at the context around Davis's lack of pass rush production to try and analyse whether he could do it on the NFL level and why he didnt in college:

and there's lots of reasons why he couldnt in college...
1) Georgia's defensive scheme used their DTs and DL to create space for their LBs to create pass rush (it's why you dont see a ton of production from Travon Walker or Devonte Wyatt either) - notably he was most often asked to rush from 0t also where he was frequently double or triple teamed even on passing downs
2) Georgia rotated their DL a ton so no one played a ton of snaps and especially at DT/NT where they have 2023 top 10 pick Jalen Carter sharing the load with Davis
3) Davis didnt play a lot of 3rd downs... obviously there's 2 ways of thinking about that - 1) he's not good in the passing game or 2) he was so valuable on early downs and they had other pass rushers available on 3rd downs and i lean towards that 2nd option

because... he has traits and flashes that suggest he can do it in the NFL - there are enough reps where he dominates a guard or a center on passing downs to suggest he can do it in the pros - i think the key for him is going to be developing more consistent moves and plan as a pass rusher beyond just "get off me" type moves where he's trying to throw the C away lol - but ive seen him swim, ive seen him push-pull - i just need him to refine those kinds of moves and actually have more of a plan for his rush... and also i want to see more opportunities for him to rush as a 3t where it's not so easy to double team him inside

but there's certainly enough there that i feel comfortable projecting him as a pass rusher or at least a disruptor on passing downs
 
on a more important note - i think im gonna have to go back to the tape on hamilton to see if i still think he's worth a top 10 type pick - i thought he was a generational athlete at the position and clearly maybe he isnt... might have to go back and reassess when ive got some time (not watching new prospects)

especially as it's seeming more and more likely that he might drift down into range of 14
 
rossihunter2 said:
nothing new there - just a compilation of stuff we've known about for a while

people need to stop worrying about top 30 visits and the ravens lol... they're normally meaningless in telling you who the ravens will pick in the 1st round

we normally meet with guys we have questions about or guys we're using to throw of the scent

notable that we've only brought in 2 "top" guys for visits so far (booth and penning)... also worth noting that we've only got about 7 or 8 prospects who've publicly been in for visits...
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So I agree with you on this concept. Usually these are meaningless but I'm not sure these 2 are. Like it just makes so much sense to have brought in Booth. Great player, also realistic to be on the table when we're picking. Same can be said for Penning even though I think we're all lower on him then Booth. I'm not sure if Penning visit was before or after the Moses signing. There are definitely implications to that.

Either way, I'd assume the Ravens are actually highly interested in these 2 players and that's not smokescreen. Doesn't mean they'll draft them, but I think they certainly could.
 
UPennChem said:
So I agree with you on this concept. Usually these are meaningless but I'm not sure these 2 are. Like it just makes so much sense to have brought in Booth. Great player, also realistic to be on the table when we're picking. Same can be said for Penning even though I think we're all lower on him then Booth. I'm not sure if Penning visit was before or after the Moses signing. There are definitely implications to that.

Either way, I'd assume the Ravens are actually highly interested in these 2 players and that's not smokescreen. Doesn't mean they'll draft them, but I think they certainly could.
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all top 30 visits are after the free agent signings i think...

but i dont mean that they're all smokescreens - more that there's no need to read too much into who they choose to bring in and who they dont

most of the time they bring in guys they have questions about and want to spend more time with or do medical checks on

in booth's case it's almost certainly a case of them wanting to have a look and checkup on the injury that stopped him testing this offseason
with penning i imagine they'll want to talk to him about penalties and talk to him about technique and maybe even guard play

it's why they brought in derion kendrick (who might not get drafted) because of testing and character concerns

and in the past the ravens often use their top 30 visits on mid-round and day 3 type guys

sometimes we draft guys we bring in for a visit and sometimes we dont - especially in this covid era where you can still meet guys on zoom (i think) and where you get to meet with every single senior bowl prospect at least once but more likely twice and meet anyone you want at the combine and that doesnt include the local visits, the pro-day meetings, the other all-star games
 
rossihunter2 said:
all top 30 visits are after the free agent signings i think...

but i dont mean that they're all smokescreens - more that there's no need to read too much into who they choose to bring in and who they dont

most of the time they bring in guys they have questions about and want to spend more time with or do medical checks on

in booth's case it's almost certainly a case of them wanting to have a look and checkup on the injury that stopped him testing this offseason
with penning i imagine they'll want to talk to him about penalties and talk to him about technique and maybe even guard play

it's why they brought in derion kendrick (who might not get drafted) because of testing and character concerns

and in the past the ravens often use their top 30 visits on mid-round and day 3 type guys

sometimes we draft guys we bring in for a visit and sometimes we dont - especially in this covid era where you can still meet guys on zoom (i think) and where you get to meet with every single senior bowl prospect at least once but more likely twice and meet anyone you want at the combine and that doesnt include the local visits, the pro-day meetings, the other all-star games
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Makes sense!
 
rossihunter2 said:
on a more important note - i think im gonna have to go back to the tape on hamilton to see if i still think he's worth a top 10 type pick - i thought he was a generational athlete at the position and clearly maybe he isnt... might have to go back and reassess when ive got some time (not watching new prospects)

especially as it's seeming more and more likely that he might drift down into range of 14
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He’s probably just more of a strong than a free type. If he’s in the 0-20 yard range he has generational ability to “arrive” no matter the circumstance, he may not have elite times on some of the speed drills but he’s got elite play speed.

I just don’t see how Kyle hamilton wouldn’t be far away the bpa at 14 unless JJ is there too
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
He’s probably just more of a strong than a free type. If he’s in the 0-20 yard range he has generational ability to “arrive” no matter the circumstance, he may not have elite times on some of the speed drills but he’s got elite play speed.

I just don’t see how Kyle hamilton wouldn’t be far away the bpa at 14 unless JJ is there too
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Do you think he’d be BPA even if we view him as a free? I want us to take him so bad but I still wonder to this day why we passed on Derwin since we value the secondary so much. I’d cry if that happens again and we pass on Kyle
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
He’s probably just more of a strong than a free type. If he’s in the 0-20 yard range he has generational ability to “arrive” no matter the circumstance, he may not have elite times on some of the speed drills but he’s got elite play speed.

I just don’t see how Kyle hamilton wouldn’t be far away the bpa at 14 unless JJ is there too
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Just thinking about his ability to man cover backs and slot receivers

I’ve got no issues with his range because at safety range is more about your eyes and your reading than it is your athleticism and Hamilton can still explode initially and close like a train

Just thinking about his ability to do the other parts of safety play

Not saying he’s not this but in light of the fact that he seems to be dropping I’m gonna have to go back and have another look
 
JAAM said:
Do you think he’d be BPA even if we view him as a free? I want us to take him so bad but I still wonder to this day why we passed on Derwin since we value the secondary so much. I’d cry if that happens again and we pass on Kyle
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Haha pass on Kyle and let the chargers take him at 17 again...
 
rossihunter2 said:
Sure - but there’s even more insane sparq guys than penning in R1 lol and remember they’ll also have access to the gps tracking that we don’t
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I’m sure there are.. but Penning is the perfect mix of SPARQ and need lol
 
rossihunter2 said:
Just thinking about his ability to man cover backs and slot receivers

I’ve got no issues with his range because at safety range is more about your eyes and your reading than it is your athleticism and Hamilton can still explode initially and close like a train

Just thinking about his ability to do the other parts of safety play

Not saying he’s not this but in light of the fact that he seems to be dropping I’m gonna have to go back and have another look
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After reading your posts on this I went and had another look.

Yup, still looks like an absolute baller, I just don’t see the concerns. He reads the field so quickly and he’s an extreme opportunist, he is a play maker and an extremely heady and fundamentally sound one at that.

JAAM said:
Do you think he’d be BPA even if we view him as a free? I want us to take him so bad but I still wonder to this day why we passed on Derwin since we value the secondary so much. I’d cry if that happens again and we pass on Kyle
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Doesn’t matter how we view him, if he’s there at 14 the odds of any player being a better prospect are nearly nonexistent. And I think the Derwin James thing was more about the draft class we were in and the position the team was in. We wanted to rack up picks because we really liked day 2 of that class, we wanted Lamar, and we were about to rebuild the team as we know it. There was also tremaine edmunds who at the time was argued an equal prospect to James and just as much of a need, I think we just had our eyes on an offensive rebuild.
 
Davesta said:
I’m sure there are.. but Penning is the perfect mix of SPARQ and need lol
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Is he a better sparq prospect than stingley or booth? What about kaiir Elam? Jordan Davis is just about the best mix of sparq and need there is lol...

He’s a great athlete but idk that the need matters at all with regard to his sparq score... there will be equally as good if not better sparq prospects at other positions when we pick
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
After reading your posts on this I went and had another look.

Yup, still looks like an absolute baller, I just don’t see the concerns. He reads the field so quickly and he’s an extreme opportunist, he is a play maker and an extremely heady and fundamentally sound one at that.


Doesn’t matter how we view him, if he’s there at 14 the odds of any player being a better prospect are nearly nonexistent. And I think the Derwin James thing was more about the draft class we were in and the position the team was in. We wanted to rack up picks because we really liked day 2 of that class, we wanted Lamar, and we were about to rebuild the team as we know it. There was also tremaine edmunds who at the time was argued an equal prospect to James and just as much of a need, I think we just had our eyes on an offensive rebuild.
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I was all over tremaine Edmunds in that class - thought he was an elite LB prospect and had him ahead of Roquan on my board...
after we traded out those next 3 picks were all elite picks: Edmunds, Derwin James and jaire Alexander
 
rossihunter2 said:
Is he a better sparq prospect than stingley or booth? What about kaiir Elam? Jordan Davis is just about the best mix of sparq and need there is lol...

He’s a great athlete but idk that the need matters at all with regard to his sparq score... there will be equally as good if not better sparq prospects at other positions when we pick
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I’m going under the assumption that both Stingley and Sauce are gone. If we pass on either of them for Penning.. imma rage quit so hard..
 
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