Next Up: Bye Bye Marty, Pees and Harbaugh?

[allblackraven]

@rossihunter2 @allblackraven @TheCity5 @Truth

So, just watched the play on Ravens Wire and it does indeed look like a Tampa 2 look. Yes, it does in fact look like Mosley was responsible for covering the seam route to Boyd. A few things stood out to me.

Both receivers pressed and forced an outside release. This isn't too typical of the Cover 2 where you force the receiver inside to help lessen how far a safety has to travel to the sideline to help with coverage over the top, so it seems the Ravens two outside corners had every intent of trailing their man down the sideline because they were expecting verticals. Not a bad assumption.

Mosley looks like he actually puts himself into a really good position to defend the pass, but he just stops his zone at about 13 yards to defend the marker. With zero threats crossing into his zone except Boyd, he needed to get deeper. Typically the Mike drops 10-13 yards in a Tampa 2 look, but he needed to carry Boyd down the seam in this case.

Canady was acting as the second safety to Jefferson who started over the top to double cover Green. Canady looked like he shaded over the top of (taking a guess here) LaFell to double cover both outside routes. What this did was allow LaFell to come free up the seam when he passed that ~15 yard mark.

Weddle looks like he was initially going to cover the TE (again, another guess) Kroft on a crosser and whoever the second linebacker was (guessing it was Peanut or Judon) was going to take away Bernard underneath. Looks like Weddle reacts to Dalton's eyes to try to come over the top of Boyd when he realizes Dalton was looking that way.

So, I think the Ravens actually had every single route taken away perfectly on this play. Mosley just needed to take a deeper drop and Canady needed to stay more over the top of Boyd, but in actuality, the Ravens Cover 2 call actually had every single receiver accounted for and should have forced a check down which is likely tackled short of the line to gain or only results in a first down and subsequently (hopefully) a field goal. Just really poor execution on a play that should have been perfectly covered.

I rewatched the play several times and I have 2 problems with it
- unnecessary attempt to disguise the coverage with Mosley and Weddle too close to the scrimmage line when everybody knows neither is going to blitz, making their correct reactions too late to work
- Inexperienced Canady as the deep cover, particularly in the game he didn't play well. I bet Webb closes that one in time.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I rewatched the play several times and I have 2 problems with it
- unnecessary attempt to disguise the coverage with Mosley and Weddle too close to the scrimmage line when everybody knows neither is going to blitz, making their correct reactions too late to work
- Inexperienced Canady as the deep cover, particularly in the game he didn't play well. I bet Webb closes that one in time.

To your last point, I am actually incredibly curious about how much Webb did play.

 

[TheCity5]

@rossihunter2 @allblackraven @TheCity5 @Truth

So, just watched the play on Ravens Wire and it does indeed look like a Tampa 2 look. Yes, it does in fact look like Mosley was responsible for covering the seam route to Boyd. A few things stood out to me.

Both receivers pressed and forced an outside release. This isn't too typical of the Cover 2 where you force the receiver inside to help lessen how far a safety has to travel to the sideline to help with coverage over the top, so it seems the Ravens two outside corners had every intent of trailing their man down the sideline because they were expecting verticals. Not a bad assumption.

Mosley looks like he actually puts himself into a really good position to defend the pass, but he just stops his zone at about 13 yards to defend the marker. With zero threats crossing into his zone except Boyd, he needed to get deeper. Typically the Mike drops 10-13 yards in a Tampa 2 look, but he needed to carry Boyd down the seam in this case.

Canady was acting as the second safety to Jefferson who started over the top to double cover Green. Canady looked like he shaded over the top of (taking a guess here) LaFell to double cover both outside routes. What this did was allow LaFell to come free up the seam when he passed that ~15 yard mark.

Weddle looks like he was initially going to cover the TE (again, another guess) Kroft on a crosser and whoever the second linebacker was (guessing it was Peanut or Judon) was going to take away Bernard underneath. Looks like Weddle reacts to Dalton's eyes to try to come over the top of Boyd when he realizes Dalton was looking that way.

So, I think the Ravens actually had every single route taken away perfectly on this play. Mosley just needed to take a deeper drop and Canady needed to stay more over the top of Boyd, but in actuality, the Ravens Cover 2 call actually had every single receiver accounted for and should have forced a check down which is likely tackled short of the line to gain or only results in a first down and subsequently (hopefully) a field goal. Just really poor execution on a play that should have been perfectly covered.

If it is Tampa 2, which it looks like it is then it's absolutely Mosley's responsibility to drop deep into the seam. I think the problem though is that rather then have him play above the sticks, they had him in the gap pre-snap while on the other hand, Weddle who had the hook coverage bailed and read the QB seeing where the ball was going but unfortunately couldn't stop the play in time. Had he done so it would have been a truly brilliant play. I think it would have made sense to have Weddle in the gap with him dropping back. I don't know if I want a LB who I know isn't the best in coverage to play below the sticks in a Tampa-2.

 

[allblackraven]

To your last point, I am actually incredibly curious about how much Webb did play.

12 snaps on defense and 6 on ST

 

[29BmoreBird22]

If it is Tampa 2, which it looks like it is then it's absolutely Mosley's responsibility to drop deep into the seam. I think the problem though is that rather then have him play above the sticks, they had him in the gap pre-snap while on the other hand, Weddle who had the hook coverage bailed and read the QB seeing where the ball was going but unfortunately couldn't stop the play in time. Had he done so it would have been a truly brilliant play. I think it would have made sense to have Weddle in the gap with him dropping back. I don't know if I want a LB who I know isn't the best in coverage to play below the sticks in a Tampa-2.

For me, as @allblackraven suggested, why not have Webb back there in the slot? Or even better, why not have Weddle back there in the slot?

 

[29BmoreBird22]

12 snaps on defense and 6 on ST

What a fall from grace it was from him... I actually felt like he did really well last year for the most part, but I guess the coaches feel differently.

 

[rossihunter2]

What a fall from grace it was from him... I actually felt like he did really well last year for the most part, but I guess the coaches feel differently.

what's interesting to me is that canady was playing that safety role at all on a critical down

 

[allblackraven]

What a fall from grace it was from him... I actually felt like he did really well last year for the most part, but I guess the coaches feel differently.

Yep. He was slower than usual Webby but he mostly managed to compensate for that with his smarts. I really think we missed him on that last drive. Missed Levine, too.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

what's interesting to me is that canady was playing that safety role at all on a critical down

I mean, that's the responsibility of the nickel in the Tampa 2 in a slot look from the offense. I suppose it was more deception without having a safety back there to give it away, but obviously with the motion from the TE, it kinda sold out on zone, anyway.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Yep. He was slower than usual Webby but he mostly managed to compensate for that with his smarts. I really think we missed him on that last drive. Missed Levine, too.

Webb had outstanding range at the end of the year. Can't remember if it was PFF highlighting some of his plays or not, but he could cover some serious ground.

I heard someone say Levine got injured?

 

[allblackraven]

For me, as @allblackraven suggested, why not have Webb back there in the slot? Or even better, why not have Weddle back there in the slot?

That's Pees philosophy. Trying to confuse opposing offense while mostly overwhelming and confusing his own defensive players.
Lot of our rookies suffer through their early years while trying to learn every fucking position on defense, so they can accommodate "exotic" Pees playbook that doesn't work when it's tight.

 

[allblackraven]

Webb had outstanding range at the end of the year. Can't remember if it was PFF highlighting some of his plays or not, but he could cover some serious ground.

I heard someone say Levine got injured?

Yep, foot. And he played good game lately.

 

[TheCity5]

For me, as @allblackraven suggested, why not have Webb back there in the slot? Or even better, why not have Weddle back there in the slot?

I don't know, but having Mosley in the gap when his responsibility is the seams and Weddle bailing with his responsibly being the hook just doesn't make much sense to me in this situation. I can understand it if it were the 1st half or 3rd QTR but in this scenario an incomplete pass is a turnover on downs. I don't see any reason to try to confuse Dalton. Just have Mosley play above the sticks and Weddle play the gap and then dropping back. The presence of Mosley can force adjustments, but again, it's a turnover if the pass is incomplete.

 

[allblackraven]

I don't know, but having Mosley in the gap when his responsibility is the seams and Weddle bailing with his responsibly being the hook just doesn't make much sense to me in this situation. I can understand it if it were the 1st half or 3rd QTR but in this scenario an incomplete pass is a turnover on downs. I don't see any reason to try to confuse Dalton. Just have Mosley play above the sticks and Weddle play the gap and then dropping back. The presence of Mosley can force adjustments, but again, it's a turnover if the pass is incomplete.

3 man front and 8 in coverage could have easily stopped that conversion or at least force the short pass into crowded space. Bengals were never going to run the ball on 4th and 12.

 

[TheCity5]

3 man front and 8 in coverage could have easily stopped that conversion or at least force the short pass into crowded space. Bengals were never going to run the ball on 4th and 12.

I think everyone knows that, but I think he did too much in trying to confuse Dalton. I think Mosley playing in the A-Gap might have been a way to take away the hook over the middle in case of a check down(?). I don't know but I think if Mosley's responsibility is the seams, then having him playing above the sticks is the most logical approach.

 

[The Raven]

Former Ravens outside linebacker Jarret Johnson had this to say about Marty Mornhinweg on The Glenn Clark Radio ""I think if fans were to sit in with an opposing defensive coordinator and watch our offense, they would be shocked by what Marty's been able to create [with this personnel]."

You know, I can see this to a certain extent. We had nothing reliable at TE. Wallace and Maclin certainly didn't look like they had in years gone by. Camp and Chris Moore were good for a catch or two each. Without anything to worry about at the second level defenses could just sit on the screens and swings to Collins and Buck, the only two consistent producers on the team.

 

[allblackraven]

I think everyone knows that, but I think he did too much in trying to confuse Dalton. I think Mosley playing in the A-Gap might have been a way to take away the hook over the middle in case of a check down(?). I don't know but I think if Mosley's responsibility is the seams, then having him playing above the sticks is the most logical approach.

But even if he lined up normally as @29BmoreBird22 said, he would have been able to break that pass and still provide some insurance for screen or even run play. He was only a step short as it happened, starting from scrimmage line.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

That's Pees philosophy. Trying to confuse opposing offense while mostly overwhelming and confusing his own defensive players.
Lot of our rookies suffer through their early years while trying to learn every fucking position on defense, so they can accommodate "exotic" Pees playbook that doesn't work when it's tight.

You know, Pees is widely considered one of the brightest minds when it comes to devising a scheme, but in this situation, it just feels like he outsmarted himself. I mean, truly, truly, in my opinion, the perfect play call... if you players can execute and clearly they weren't able to. Feels like he tried a little too hard and got ahead of himself.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I don't know, but having Mosley in the gap when his responsibility is the seams and Weddle bailing with his responsibly being the hook just doesn't make much sense to me in this situation. I can understand it if it were the 1st half or 3rd QTR but in this scenario an incomplete pass is a turnover on downs. I don't see any reason to try to confuse Dalton. Just have Mosley play above the sticks and Weddle play the gap and then dropping back. The presence of Mosley can force adjustments, but again, it's a turnover if the pass is incomplete.

Look at what I just said to @allblackraven. I think Pees got into his own head a little bit.

 

[balfan23]

It is what it is. Harbaugh better feel real comfortable with his coordinator decisions this year because he's run out of chances.

Also, we better not fucking lose Roman. I want to see our run game improve even more next year with a completely healthy O-line and Dixon back.

Not losing Roman is the key point. If it looks like he's going to get scooped, we better give him whatever job he wants. The only bright spot on this offense was that the run game actually functioned with a patch-work O line.

And as you say ... whatever motivations that may have existed for Harbaugh that did not include getting coordinators who get their unit performing to peak need to go. Many can't believe he's getting another chance, but this HAS to be the last. Another embarrassment and it should be a guarantee that he's gone.