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Week 11 Discussion (Other Teams)

JO_75

JO_75

Hall of Famer
It's quite crazy how the Seahawks traded for Jamal Adams giving up two first round picks and they are handing the Jets a second top five pick.
 
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rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
i mean im of the opinion that justin fields is a rare QB prospect that you dont get a shot at very often

just looking at the prospects themselves - the only legitimate options they had were:
  • Pitts who was the rare generational prospect who just happens to be a tight end and you dont get a shot at those guys often
  • Fields who's got the traits, tape, mentality and characteristics of a legitimate franchise quarterback and you dont get a shot at those guys often
  • trade down to horde picks for a rebuild
i think it's worth pointing out that fields and pitts are the kinds of prospects you dont trade down on - if anything they're the kind of prospects you trade up for

so really it would/should have been pitts vs fields and they went with the guy who they knew was a generational talent rather than the QB they clearly werent sold on...

and i cant criticise them for that if they werent sold on fields - but idk why they werent - im not narcissistic enough to think my opinion and analysis is the be-all-end-all but i dont understand how you can come to that conclusion with fields - he was my clear number 1 QB in this class ahead of lawrence, wilson, lance and jones and i still dont really understand how he fell out of the top 5 let alone the top 10
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This is fair. My criticism of discussion was that taking somebody else other than Pitts was going to yield a better product on the field this year, which I don't think I could be convinced of. I don't think the Falcons are a better team in 2021 with Fields at QB instead of Ryan. I actually think Ryan has played fairly well. They just don't have a great roster and, of course, Ridley is on hiatus, so they're not even that high end on the offensive side of the ball like people think.
For me, there's no actual individual draft pick at that spot that would make this team better this year. Trading back makes a ton of sense, but again, I'm not sure that materializes into much either.
I'm also not 100% convinced, yet, that this is Ryan's last year in Atlanta. His contract brings a lot of issues for next year, and they'll need to navigate that. A $48.6M cap hit won't ever happen in 2022, there's a gigantic amount of dead money associated with that, and the only "easy" way to move on from it is with a Post-June 1 designation, which also means you don't get that cap savings until then. A trade, to me, seems unlikely, because I don't know what teams would want that contract for a 37 year old player (owed $23.75M in salary and bonuses in 2022).
I think its entirely possible that they keep him, try to cut his salary down some in 2022 (likely just a restructure) and spread the cap hit out over 2023 (maybe add some void years) to make his departure in 2023 easier to stomach. Especially possible if they hate the QBs in the upcoming draft class.

And if that happens, it would make the Fields decision all that more puzzling.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
This is fair. My criticism of discussion was that taking somebody else other than Pitts was going to yield a better product on the field this year, which I don't think I could be convinced of. I don't think the Falcons are a better team in 2021 with Fields at QB instead of Ryan. I actually think Ryan has played fairly well. They just don't have a great roster and, of course, Ridley is on hiatus, so they're not even that high end on the offensive side of the ball like people think.
For me, there's no actual individual draft pick at that spot that would make this team better this year. Trading back makes a ton of sense, but again, I'm not sure that materializes into much either.
I'm also not 100% convinced, yet, that this is Ryan's last year in Atlanta. His contract brings a lot of issues for next year, and they'll need to navigate that. A $48.6M cap hit won't ever happen in 2022, there's a gigantic amount of dead money associated with that, and the only "easy" way to move on from it is with a Post-June 1 designation, which also means you don't get that cap savings until then. A trade, to me, seems unlikely, because I don't know what teams would want that contract for a 37 year old player (owed $23.75M in salary and bonuses in 2022).
I think its entirely possible that they keep him, try to cut his salary down some in 2022 (likely just a restructure) and spread the cap hit out over 2023 (maybe add some void years) to make his departure in 2023 easier to stomach. Especially possible if they hate the QBs in the upcoming draft class.

And if that happens, it would make the Fields decision all that more puzzling.
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and that certainly could play into why they didnt take fields for sure

especially if they are as locked into matt ryan as you say - it gives them a positive reason to not take a QB yet which is important because the quality of the 2022 QB class looks to be pretty poor by comparison

but if matt ryan's locked in through 2022 then that's fine - just accumulate picks/talent and get your guy in the seemingly much better 2023 draft class
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
and that certainly could play into why they didnt take fields for sure

especially if they are as locked into matt ryan as you say - it gives them a positive reason to not take a QB yet which is important because the quality of the 2022 QB class looks to be pretty poor by comparison

but if matt ryan's locked in through 2022 then that's fine - just accumulate picks/talent and get your guy in the seemingly much better 2023 draft class
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Yup. My gut is they'll move off Ryan after this season, essentially "tank" next year with some weaker veteran, while they work through the multitude of cap issues they have, and then make a run at somebody good in 2023.

Cap wise, I'm always fascinated to look at how teams stack up in the future. There's still lots of moves that can be made, etc., but if you look at 2022, you've got teams like the Giants, Saints, Vikings who are not really doing a whole lot of winning, and certainly aren't going to be competing for Lombardi's this year, who are going to be in pretty rough shape cap wise next year. The Saints are $50M over an estimated cap of $210M next year. The Giants are paying a lot of players a lot of money and have been one of the worst teams in the league for awhile now. Vikings are going to be cutting a lot of players and most likely will end up having to extend Cousins, who will be 34 at the time, because he has a $45M cap hit with a $35M salary, which is now fully guaranteed.

On the flip side, from the "scared" category, Chargers will be at least $70M under the cap and look like a playoff team already. Bengals and Colts will have north of $50M to spend. Denver could have close to $70M. Even Pittsburgh could have close to $50M. At least with Denver and Pittsburgh they have QB issues that they'll need to solve first, but you got the Burrow's and Herbert's of the world, who, if their FO wants to go "all in", would make for quite a frightening site for other teams.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
Yup. My gut is they'll move off Ryan after this season, essentially "tank" next year with some weaker veteran, while they work through the multitude of cap issues they have, and then make a run at somebody good in 2023.

Cap wise, I'm always fascinated to look at how teams stack up in the future. There's still lots of moves that can be made, etc., but if you look at 2022, you've got teams like the Giants, Saints, Vikings who are not really doing a whole lot of winning, and certainly aren't going to be competing for Lombardi's this year, who are going to be in pretty rough shape cap wise next year. The Saints are $50M over an estimated cap of $210M next year. The Giants are paying a lot of players a lot of money and have been one of the worst teams in the league for awhile now. Vikings are going to be cutting a lot of players and most likely will end up having to extend Cousins, who will be 34 at the time, because he has a $45M cap hit with a $35M salary, which is now fully guaranteed.

On the flip side, from the "scared" category, Chargers will be at least $70M under the cap and look like a playoff team already. Bengals and Colts will have north of $50M to spend. Denver could have close to $70M. Even Pittsburgh could have close to $50M. At least with Denver and Pittsburgh they have QB issues that they'll need to solve first, but you got the Burrow's and Herbert's of the world, who, if their FO wants to go "all in", would make for quite a frightening site for other teams.
Click to expand...

bengals really scare me a lot
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
bengals really scare me a lot
Click to expand...
The good thing is, historically, extremely cheap front office. Usually make limited investments in FA. They'll keep their own players, but they don't splash around much.

Chargers scare the shit out of me. Lots of money to spend, big market, may have aspirations to keep up with the Rams.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
The good thing is, historically, extremely cheap front office. Usually make limited investments in FA. They'll keep their own players, but they don't splash around much.

Chargers scare the shit out of me. Lots of money to spend, big market, may have aspirations to keep up with the Rams.
Click to expand...

they changed that up a bit the last couple of years and started spending on some guys this offseason like trey hendrickson
 
JO_75

JO_75

Hall of Famer
That drive was too easy for Brady and company. Feel like this will be a blowout and Joe Judge's hot seat along with Dave Gettlemen's Hot Seat is going to be hotter.
 
OURavensFan

OURavensFan

Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23 said:
The good thing is, historically, extremely cheap front office. Usually make limited investments in FA. They'll keep their own players, but they don't splash around much.

Chargers scare the shit out of me. Lots of money to spend, big market, may have aspirations to keep up with the Rams.
Click to expand...
They spent a ton on defense this year with FAs
 
OURavensFan

OURavensFan

Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23 said:
Yup. My gut is they'll move off Ryan after this season, essentially "tank" next year with some weaker veteran, while they work through the multitude of cap issues they have, and then make a run at somebody good in 2023.

Cap wise, I'm always fascinated to look at how teams stack up in the future. There's still lots of moves that can be made, etc., but if you look at 2022, you've got teams like the Giants, Saints, Vikings who are not really doing a whole lot of winning, and certainly aren't going to be competing for Lombardi's this year, who are going to be in pretty rough shape cap wise next year. The Saints are $50M over an estimated cap of $210M next year. The Giants are paying a lot of players a lot of money and have been one of the worst teams in the league for awhile now. Vikings are going to be cutting a lot of players and most likely will end up having to extend Cousins, who will be 34 at the time, because he has a $45M cap hit with a $35M salary, which is now fully guaranteed.

On the flip side, from the "scared" category, Chargers will be at least $70M under the cap and look like a playoff team already. Bengals and Colts will have north of $50M to spend. Denver could have close to $70M. Even Pittsburgh could have close to $50M. At least with Denver and Pittsburgh they have QB issues that they'll need to solve first, but you got the Burrow's and Herbert's of the world, who, if their FO wants to go "all in", would make for quite a frightening site for other teams.
Click to expand...
And then us with somehow no money to spend even though Lamar is on his rookie deal
 
JO_75

JO_75

Hall of Famer
Another former Patriots coach hired because of Belichick/Brady is about to be gone too. Joe Judge... goodbye.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
OURavensFan said:
And then us with somehow no money to spend even though Lamar is on his rookie deal
Click to expand...
Well that's because we've paid high $ for a lot of defensive players, and have already extended some of our key offensive players too.
Those teams have so little to spend because a) they're not spending much money on a QB and b) a lot of their better players are still on rookie deals.
 
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