2022 DB Thread

[ChainedBird]

i think he can play basically everywhere you want on the back-end - ive seen him lined up at WLB, nickel, split-safety, single-high, outside corner

he consistently shows high levels of intelligence and awareness with pre-snap recognition, in-play recognition and feel and awareness and you see him communicating both pre and post-snap generally leading that secondary - ive even seen him baiting QBs into throws to make plays on the ball - his hips and footwork and general athleticism is exceptional and he has amazing range - when he breaks on the ball it's lightning - physical coming downhill - saw him attack a puller with perfect technique and close the gap and seems to be a good tackler - will run the alley

very few negatives for me
- on a couple of occasions he opened his hips up too early when in man coverage - i think it's because he gets over-aggressive at the LoS and his pedal is a little choppy so his feet can get stuck in the ground for a moment and it means he can over-react to jabs and stuff like that at the break sometimes (not frequent) - mostly he was able to get back into the play with his recovery speed and closing ability (closes space so effectively)
- the only physical downside seems to be a bit of a lack of length

but to me he looks like an NFL safety - versatile and effective in multiple spots - i think if he came in we'd see a lot of 3 safety sets with Stephens continuing to play a lot of that high safety role with Hill as the other high safety when playing split and allowing chuck to be closer to the LoS

he's probably my favourite prospect (that i wasnt expecting to love like i was ekwonu and neal) - he's a great fit in the ravens defence too - looks like a future green dot kind of guy

Do you have a preliminary grade on him or is it too early for that? Reckon there's a chance he may be BPA at #14?

 

[rossihunter2]

Do you have a preliminary grade on him or is it too early for that? Reckon there's a chance he may be BPA at #14?

probably unlikely - depends how many guys get huge top-10 type grades from me

but i've given him a 1st round grade - of the 26 guys ive got preliminary grades on there are only 3 guys with clear cut better grades so far (but obviously lots of talented guys to go still as ive been somewhat focussing on senior bowl guys when i can)

those 3 btw are Neal, Ekwonu and Davis

 

[Deebo813]

Yea only way we grab hill is if we move back up in 1st rnd.

 

[ChainedBird]

Yea only way we grab hill is if we move back up in 1st rnd.

Yeah, if he's hanging around towards the end of the 1st, maybe we could trade our 2nd and Cully's comp to sneak into the end of the 1st and nab him. Have to see how deep this draft class gets.

 

[Davesta]

Yeah, if he's hanging around towards the end of the 1st, maybe we could trade our 2nd and Cully's comp to sneak into the end of the 1st and nab him. Have to see how deep this draft class gets.

it’s hard to see us keeping 10 rookies on the 53. Rather use some to move around than to cut em like Ben Mason lol

 

[rossihunter2]

it’s hard to see us keeping 10 rookies on the 53. Rather use some to move around than to cut em like Ben Mason lol

idk - we've got 40 guys on the roster before we add the erfas (but i doubt any of those guys figure at all in the building of the 53 in 2022) - for context we had 4 guys make the roster last year as reserve/futures but 2 of them were basically guaranteed roster spots (huntley and moore), 1 of them only got a spot because of injuries (Ty'son williams) and the last 1 came from another team (westry) - there's no one obviously out of the reserve/futures guys from this group so far that factors at all in the 53 discussion like moore and huntley from last year

so of those 40 guys under contract - a fair few of them look to be cut candidates before free agency and some will be in danger on final cutdown day if they arent cut by then - between those 2 groups we're looking at guys like villanueva, tavon/peters, boykin, powers, marshall, ferguson, kelly, hill, oliver etc.

obviously there's some free agent guys we might re-sign too like bozeman or ricard or williams or campbell or bynes or board etc. and free agents we might pick up from other teams

but we're certainly going to have the ability to keep 10 rookies and maybe more - there's a lot of room on this roster for new guys unlike the 2021 roster where there were very few roster spots in doubt post-draft

if anything i think it's possible/probably we trade down somewhere in the draft to pick up an extra pick or 2 - would not be surprised if we traded away at least 1 of those 4ths to move back into the 5th and maybe pick up an extra 6 or something like that

EDC said last year that he thought it would be ideal for us to pick 20 times over the next 2 drafts - in 2021 we only picked 8 guys and we've got 10 picks in 2022 - not saying we have to take 12 guys but the intention from the front office is to add a ton of youth to this team

at the very least there is most definitely a chance for 10 rookies to compete with reasonable expectations to make the roster if they show promise

it seems pretty clear that part of the issue in 2021 was that our board was basically wiped out by the time we got to that last pick in the 5th - smallest draft class in years because of all the players who made use of their extra year of eligibility - the hope would be that that means that this class will be massive - those 5 4th round picks could be very valuable this year - udfa class is likely to be good too generally around the league

 

[RavensMania]

idk - we've got 40 guys on the roster before we add the erfas (but i doubt any of those guys figure at all in the building of the 53 in 2022) - for context we had 4 guys make the roster last year as reserve/futures but 2 of them were basically guaranteed roster spots (huntley and moore), 1 of them only got a spot because of injuries (Ty'son williams) and the last 1 came from another team (westry) - there's no one obviously out of the reserve/futures guys from this group so far that factors at all in the 53 discussion like moore and huntley from last year

so of those 40 guys under contract - a fair few of them look to be cut candidates before free agency and some will be in danger on final cutdown day if they arent cut by then - between those 2 groups we're looking at guys like villanueva, tavon/peters, boykin, powers, marshall, ferguson, kelly, hill, oliver etc.

obviously there's some free agent guys we might re-sign too like bozeman or ricard or williams or campbell or bynes or board etc. and free agents we might pick up from other teams

but we're certainly going to have the ability to keep 10 rookies and maybe more - there's a lot of room on this roster for new guys unlike the 2021 roster where there were very few roster spots in doubt post-draft

if anything i think it's possible/probably we trade down somewhere in the draft to pick up an extra pick or 2 - would not be surprised if we traded away at least 1 of those 4ths to move back into the 5th and maybe pick up an extra 6 or something like that

EDC said last year that he thought it would be ideal for us to pick 20 times over the next 2 drafts - in 2021 we only picked 8 guys and we've got 10 picks in 2022 - not saying we have to take 12 guys but the intention from the front office is to add a ton of youth to this team

at the very least there is most definitely a chance for 10 rookies to compete with reasonable expectations to make the roster if they show promise

it seems pretty clear that part of the issue in 2021 was that our board was basically wiped out by the time we got to that last pick in the 5th - smallest draft class in years because of all the players who made use of their extra year of eligibility - the hope would be that that means that this class will be massive - those 5 4th round picks could be very valuable this year - udfa class is likely to be good too generally around the league

he also said he's tried on multiple occasions to trade picks for future picks, so I could see him doing that this year if he can get a better pick out of it. That being said, last year was a terrible draft and ideal to trade a pick for a future better pick in a much better draft.

 

[rossihunter2]

he also said he's tried on multiple occasions to trade picks for future picks, so I could see him doing that this year if he can get a better pick out of it. That being said, last year was a terrible draft and ideal to trade a pick for a future better pick in a much better draft.

they're always looking for value and if they can take advantage of the accepted value of future picks being a round higher vs current picks then they're happy to improve their draft capital that way

trading down is also still massively undervalued - teams that trade down for extra picks tend to get more value especially if they've got similar grades on players 1st and 2nd round trade downs especially seem to have tons of value

 

[Simba]

Sad but also happy to see one of the few mid round types I know right now - Tariq Woolen - is starting to get some hype. Converted to CB just 2 years ago so still has some rawness but he improved over those 2 years greatly. Now rumors abound that he could run in the 4.2s in the 40 at 6'4 and 200+ pounds. Doubting he'll actually measure in at 6'4 though.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Sad but also happy to see one of the few mid round types I know right now - Tariq Woolen - is starting to get some hype. Converted to CB just 2 years ago so still has some rawness but he improved over those 2 years greatly. Now rumors abound that he could run in the 4.2s in the 40 at 6'4 and 200+ pounds. Doubting he'll actually measure in at 6'4 though.

I’ve taken a quick look at woolen, 2 games or so, that length is put to good use, he’s not exactly a physical press man corner from what I’ve seen, but I see a bit of Jimmy smith in his game, where he leverages at the snap and uses his length to reroute to the sideline and squeeze them, separation against him isn’t always separation.

 

[Simba]

I’ve taken a quick look at woolen, 2 games or so, that length is put to good use, he’s not exactly a physical press man corner from what I’ve seen, but I see a bit of Jimmy smith in his game, where he leverages at the snap and uses his length to reroute to the sideline and squeeze them, separation against him isn’t always separation.

Far from a finished product but feel like he's developed well and would be a DB coach's wet dream to continue to mold with those measurables.

 

[RaineV1]

I’ve taken a quick look at woolen, 2 games or so, that length is put to good use, he’s not exactly a physical press man corner from what I’ve seen, but I see a bit of Jimmy smith in his game, where he leverages at the snap and uses his length to reroute to the sideline and squeeze them, separation against him isn’t always separation.

Far from a finished product but feel like he's developed well and would be a DB coach's wet dream to continue to mold with those measurables.

I just started getting into him and I really love the raw traits he has. He's only played Corner for 2 years, so there's a lot of learn but the potential is insane.

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[Simba]

Woolen actually measured in at 6'3 and 205 at the Senior Bowl. If he runs even close to the rumored 4.2, good lord...

 

[Simba]

Roger McCreary is also becoming one of my crushes. I have some questions about long speed but he's so smooth and calm in everything he does.

 

[rossihunter2]

Roger McCreary is also becoming one of my crushes. I have some questions about long speed but he's so smooth and calm in everything he does.

i see him very similarly - smooth and calm are great descriptors for him - eye discipline is great especially in man coverage

and i also have questions about his long-speed - he's going to do poorly in 2 of the most important measurables for a corner in terms of testing... 40 time and arm length (sub-30 inch arms is really bad)

and i think you can see that he just doesnt have an extra gear against faster guys down the field - one of my minor quibbles with him on his press technique was that he opens his hips too early when guys threaten him outside and i wonder if that's a side-effect of being threatened by speed

if he was faster and longer, i think he'd be seen very similarly to patrick surtain last year

unfortunately he's not

 

[Simba]

i see him very similarly - smooth and calm are great descriptors for him - eye discipline is great especially in man coverage

and i also have questions about his long-speed - he's going to do poorly in 2 of the most important measurables for a corner in terms of testing... 40 time and arm length (sub-30 inch arms is really bad)

and i think you can see that he just doesnt have an extra gear against faster guys down the field - one of my minor quibbles with him on his press technique was that he opens his hips too early when guys threaten him outside and i wonder if that's a side-effect of being threatened by speed

if he was faster and longer, i think he'd be seen very similarly to patrick surtain last year

unfortunately he's not

I'm just a sucker for a CB with smooth hips. I can admit it lol

 

[RaineV1]

i see him very similarly - smooth and calm are great descriptors for him - eye discipline is great especially in man coverage

and i also have questions about his long-speed - he's going to do poorly in 2 of the most important measurables for a corner in terms of testing... 40 time and arm length (sub-30 inch arms is really bad)

and i think you can see that he just doesnt have an extra gear against faster guys down the field - one of my minor quibbles with him on his press technique was that he opens his hips too early when guys threaten him outside and i wonder if that's a side-effect of being threatened by speed

if he was faster and longer, i think he'd be seen very similarly to patrick surtain last year

unfortunately he's not

He'd amazing in a zone defense where he just controls an area and watches the QB, but he doesn't quite fit the Ravens defense. Andrew Booth Jr, Stingley Jr, Sauce Gardner, Trent McDuffie, Coby Bryant, and Tariq Woolen would all do better in our defense.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm just a sucker for a CB with smooth hips. I can admit it lol

me too - first few plays had me thinking he was gonna be very high - just started to see things that pulled him down a bit the more i watched... things that arent so important in college necessarily but will possibly show up in the pros especially outside (albeit tbf to him he's been left in man coverage 1v1 vs 7 or 8 legitimate NFL WRs and been great so maybe it really doesnt matter)

 

[rossihunter2]

He'd amazing in a zone defense where he just controls an area and watches the QB, but he doesn't quite fit the Ravens defense. Andrew Booth Jr, Stingley Jr, Sauce Gardner, Trent McDuffie, Coby Bryant, and Tariq Woolen would all do better in our defense.

i mean i do really like him in man coverage too - but he might be a full-time nickel in the NFL rather than just a part-time one like he was in college

he definitely doesnt fit the profile though of what the ravens usually look for in corners (which are those 2 traits that he's probably lacking most - long-speed and length)

still havent done a lot of the corners - ive heard some pretty varied things about booth (some love him some think he's not a 1st rounder) so will be interested to see where i come down on him and what others here think of him, obviously know a lot about stingley although havent graded him yet

and the other guys are all on my list but not got around to them