OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
I think we can all agree on that
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The Ugly, The Ugly and The Ugly - Steelers Edition
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Can’t put too much touch on that ball, if andrews had to slow up for one more step defenders would’ve been there to break up the pass, if Lamar leads too far inside it’s uncatchable.
he had to put zip on that ball, and he tried to lead him to catch and run, it was just a really tough throw to execute.
yes a better pass wins it, but it’s a matter of just executing the pass he attempted, not trying a different pass entirely. Every decision was the correct decision, Lamar and andrews just weren’t perfect on that play and they needed to be. That’s football, that’s why I’m not sweating it, what I am sweating is the horrible OL, the bad decision making from Lamar, the continued meme route combos, and the lack of secondary play. Honestly of all things I think that 2 point play is the least of my concerns, I’m more concerned with the fact that it was a close game to begin with when we dominated all phases
sometimes your opponent just makes a play and TJ Watt was aggressive and did exactly what he had to do to stop that play - he does anything slightly different and it’s a pitch and catch for the win
if what mark's saying here is true then this really is on the players mostly - guys are either getting lazy with their routes or not thinking about the play as a whole and just gunning for the space
but then there's this - which is probably the most thorough and damning indictment i've seen of Roman so far:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2021/whats-wrong-lamar-jackson
a difficult but very good read
This paragraph is especially damning:
"Asking players to find space like this is not inherently bad. It can be useful as a tool for some concepts, such as sitting down a shallow crosser versus zone coverage or running it through against man. Making "finding space" the ethos of an entire passing offense is not sound ball, though. It puts the onus on Jackson to have this outstanding chemistry with his receivers in order to connect consistently. That does not exist for either Jackson or the receivers right now. It's a vibes offense, and the vibes are catastrophic."
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2021/whats-wrong-lamar-jackson
a difficult but very good read
This paragraph is especially damning:
"Asking players to find space like this is not inherently bad. It can be useful as a tool for some concepts, such as sitting down a shallow crosser versus zone coverage or running it through against man. Making "finding space" the ethos of an entire passing offense is not sound ball, though. It puts the onus on Jackson to have this outstanding chemistry with his receivers in order to connect consistently. That does not exist for either Jackson or the receivers right now. It's a vibes offense, and the vibes are catastrophic."
redrum52
Hall of Famer
He sidestepped him but Watt was still there. The pass could have been better but has a high chance of being batted down from where he is. He's right handed trying to throw inside to a wr going out. Not going to punish myself and refuse to keep rewatching so maybe there was a better lane.
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
I skimmed through this but the question i have is if its more difficult to throw quickly in the shotgun with zero blitzing than it is when the QB is under center ,why didn't we put Lamar under center during the Miami game in particular? I know it takes away his running scheme but maybe we need to show that a little more.
it's certainly possible - getting the ball in and out of the QB's hands quickly is a lot easier from under centre - it certainly could be an answer to help lamar get some rhythm and also help him get an extra split second to read on those quick throws
but what's clear is that whether it's the receivers getting it wrong or the concepts themselves or lamar getting spooked... on any given play this passing game is inept
a passing offence that requires their QB to be magical is a poor scheme
i dont think ive ever been so quickly swung from 1 point of view to the other in a week like i have been with Roman this week
what's really frustrating though is the lack of detail in some of the route running which is very unlike a tee martin or keith williams receiving corps
It's not wrong. No surprise, but there's also the lack of run game element that we have going on as well. Defenses are daring Lamar to beat them with his arm at this point. And with that snippet above, it's not working. Everything on the offense is just so out of sorts... from the players on the field to the coaches. Team know they can just load the box and bring pressure because (a) the OL sucks, (b) there's no real run threat, and (c) the receivers aren't showing much confidence.
for sure - but what that article points out are some issues completely separate to the running game - concepts that are completely fundamentally broken and misunderstand coverage principles and how to manipulate them
that's what's damning for me (the mesh concept section)
Argentina Raven
Practice Squad
Regarding that statement from Andrews, about receivers not meeting their route ...
who are you referring to?
who are you referring to?
SaltyDog
MVP
The lack of a run game is killin’ us. No doubt. If we had Dobbins, Edwards, and Stanley right now this offense would be so different. When you are one dimensional life sucks in the NFL. So for me it all comes down to the IR list. I find it hard to blame any coach or player when you’re crippled as bad as this team is right now. I’m just trying to figure out how we have 8 wins right now.
Even with players on ir, most our loses came down to our players not being able to execute. Even with our run game, i feel like zero blizting lamar still is a flaw of ours
ChainedBird
Practice Squad
Yeah damn, it's impressive really. Right around the time Stanley had a setback I thought this team was just about on the right side of a .500 team (9-8) and we're nearly there despite even more injuries.
If we can somehow scramble to one more win then I'm happy and anything else is gravy. It would be nice to win the division, but if we don't then so be it.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
My problem with the article is that its too "assuming". It just assumes that because receivers or TE's run bad routes or are "lazy" in their route running means its a coaching issue. For starters, I'm not sure that's on Roman. I'd be putting more of that on the WR coaches. If it's not their job to help the receivers with depth/preciseness of route running, then what exactly is their job?
A lot of the routes he's pointing out here aren't design flaws (Roman's responsibility). They're execution flaws. There's Watkins running a lazy route. There's Hollywood setting a depth of target that's too deep for the play design.
It's like back when people used to play Dean Pees for corners playing too far off their defenders. And then people realized that the DC doesn't set depth on play calls. It's up to the assistant coaches and to the players.
I'm not going to be the guy who believes that Roman teaches lazy route running. Or that he doesn't know what the depth should be for crossing routes. You'd need to show me practice film where Roman is teaching guys that these things don't matter.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I thought about this too. Prior years, they want him in the gun so he can run more RPO's, read options, and designed reads out of the gun. This year they're doing less of that, and the run game sucks. So when he's in the gun, teams aren't really afraid anymore.
SaltyDog
MVP
Yeah we can’t execute but why? I’m suggesting that we can’t execute because half of our practice squad is out there instead of our 1’s and 2’s. And if the defense doesn’t have to worry about the run game they tend to get more creative with their blitz packages. They are forcing him to beat them throwing the ball. I agree that he is missing opportunities to beat the zero but he is being harassed to the point of frustration, and it’s causing him to make mistakes and bad throws.
part of his thesis on those plays was that they were the same issues from last year (and the year before that) and Roman's the only constant
but also look at the mesh concept play he talks about - how the elements of the play and how it's constructed literally don't work as a play-design... yes the players dont execute it either but it's also not a play that should work
im not absolving the receivers of any guilt here - there's clearly some either laziness or lack of detail going on here but there's also plays that fundamentally don't work... there was a pair of post routes that dan orlovsky pointed out, the mesh concept in this article
but also worth pointing out that some of this funky route running seems ingrained across the board especially with these floaty spot routes - you point out watkins being lazy and floating through the space but he didnt do that in KC or Buffalo - so either he's checked out for some reason or it's something to do with the coaching and finding space
but a general sloppiness across the board reflects really poorly on coaching - if everyone's executing poorly then that's something structural that's gone wrong
Michael M.
Pro Bowler
Why don't the Ravens run slant passes
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
With Lamar under Center