Next Up: @ Browns

[RavensMania]

bowser wasnt a desperation signing at all? he was the swiss army knife that might have been one of the most important weapons of our defence if the secondary hadnt fallen apart with injuries

his ability to rush the passer, set the edge, and also cover WRs, TEs, RBs in man and zone is outrageously valuable and a bargain given what we paid him (i thought we were gonna have to fork out 8m/yr or something like that to retain him)

and houston's also been worth every penny... been a really impactful edge rusher creating lots of pressures and remember he's only being paid 2m to play here too...

and Houston's been invaluable to Oweh's development.

 

[BoredMarine13]

Oweh, bowser, Houston, madubuike, Campbell, that’s a 5 man rotation that absolutely can get pressure if you allow them to. Wink quite literally will take players who can get pressure and not allow them to pressure because he wants long looping stunts that will never get home, and wants to use his best edge rushers to free up db blitzes.

This is a hot topic I keep seeing. Is wink misusing our guys ? If he stunts Owehs growth I would be so upset. The kid has crazy athleticism and talent


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[JoeyFlex5]

This is a hot topic I keep seeing. Is wink misusing our guys ? If he stunts Owehs growth I would be so upset. The kid has crazy athleticism and talent


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This is a hot topic because it’s been a problem for years, we wonder why our guys never develop as legit pass rushers and why we have multiple nickels and safeties with 3 sacks a year and our top edge guys can’t even hit double digits. It’s because they’re often not allowed to line up at the seven and just pin their ears back. Feels like Bowser has been given the most opportunity to do exactly that but ironically he’s our best coverage defender, meanwhile oweh spent a month with half his pass rush snaps at 3tech and the other half crashing in from the edge

 

[BoredMarine13]

bowser wasnt a desperation signing at all? he was the swiss army knife that might have been one of the most important weapons of our defence if the secondary hadnt fallen apart with injuries...

I just disagree with this man. Can he be used as a Swiss Army knife , sure, is he anything more than an average player? No. We had to bring Bowser back to keep some semblance of a pass rush after loosing Judon and ngakoue.


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[rossihunter2]

I just disagree with this man. Can he be used as a Swiss Army knife , sure, is he anything more than an average player? No. We had to bring Bowser back to keep some semblance of a pass rush after loosing Judon and ngakoue.


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hes an elite coverage LB... good enough to be matched up in man coverage with WRs out of the slot

that’s a rare kind of ability - I had an unreleased load of clips for a video from before the season where I called him the key to wink’s defence - his coverage skills are the reason we stopped that final drive against the browns 2 weeks ago

we didn’t keep bowser as a pass rusher, we kept him as a versatile weapon

 

[UPennChem]

I just disagree with this man. Can he be used as a Swiss Army knife , sure, is he anything more than an average player? No. We had to bring Bowser back to keep some semblance of a pass rush after loosing Judon and ngakoue.


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Respectfully, you're position only makes sense if you consider his value coming from purely traditional edge rushing perspective.

Bowser is playing a huge number of snaps and being asked to do a multitude of things in coverage and in rushing the passer. Bowesr was not retained to be a Justin Houston type and it was not desperation to keep some semblance of pass rush. He was brought back pretty inexpensively to be a very athletic tactician in Winks very complicated defense. He is not a specialist in any one thing but he has a lot of ability in many different areas and that allows him to be used in many ways and the result is see the snap count.

I feel extremely strongly that if you had say kept Yannick over Bowser, the defense would be considerably worse.

 

[BoredMarine13]

hes an elite coverage LB... good enough to be matched up in man coverage with WRs out of the slot

that’s a rare kind of ability - I had an unreleased load of clips for a video from before the season where I called him the key to wink’s defence - his coverage skills are the reason we stopped that final drive against the browns 2 weeks ago

we didn’t keep bowser as a pass rusher, we kept him as a versatile weapon

I think you’ve done an amazing job of putting a positive spin on the fact that
1. We’ve taken a pass rushing LB and turned him into a fantastic coverage LB, even though we lacked a good pass rush for years now.
2. Perhaps the theory of Wink using players incorrectly is on point.

Do I want a versatile player? Absolutely! But our critical vulnerability on defense these past few years has been our inability to get into the backfield successfully and consistently. So why the hell is wink dropping someone like Bowser while blitzing a nickel or safety.


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[JoeyFlex5]

I just disagree with this man. Can he be used as a Swiss Army knife , sure, is he anything more than an average player? No. We had to bring Bowser back to keep some semblance of a pass rush after loosing Judon and ngakoue.


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Bowser is among the leagues best all around OLBs my guy, he’s probably the only true edge defender in the league who is absolutely elite in coverage, the other guys are edge rushers who can drop back sometimes and get in the way, but bowser is straight up elite and could drop back every snap and blank a side of the field if his coordinator wanted him to, he also sets the edge as a run defender at an elite level, and he’s also developed into a well above average pass rusher.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think you’ve done an amazing job of putting a positive spin on the fact that
1. We’ve taken a pass rushing LB and turned him into a fantastic coverage LB, even though we lacked a good pass rush for years now.
2. Perhaps the theory of Wink using players incorrectly is on point.

Do I want a versatile player? Absolutely! But our critical vulnerability on defense these past few years has been our inability to get into the backfield successfully and consistently. So why the hell is wink dropping someone like Bowser while blitzing a nickel or safety.


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We didn’t take a pass rushing LB and turn him into a coverage backer. Bowser was touted for his coverage ability more than anything coming out of Houston, we were all frustrated for years that he was in on running downs and pulled off on passing downs and when he was getting his reps there he was just sent to go rush and didn’t seem to get his chance to really show
Some ability in coverage til around 2019

 

[rossihunter2]

I think you’ve done an amazing job of putting a positive spin on the fact that
1. We’ve taken a pass rushing LB and turned him into a fantastic coverage LB, even though we lacked a good pass rush for years now.
2. Perhaps the theory of Wink using players incorrectly is on point.

Do I want a versatile player? Absolutely! But our critical vulnerability on defense these past few years has been our inability to get into the backfield successfully and consistently. So why the hell is wink dropping someone like Bowser while blitzing a nickel or safety.


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we drafted an athletic OLB and let him hone his craft - we didn't take a high quality edge rusher and teach him to be good in coverage

and you're really revising history if you think that most of this board wasn't calling for us to retain Bowser long before we actually did - it's not us putting a spin on it, it's what we genuinely wanted to happen

in my ideal world we somehow kept Judon and Bowser but Bowser was always a "must keep"

 

[redrum52]

we drafted an athletic OLB and let him hone his craft - we didn't take a high quality edge rusher and teach him to be good in coverage

and you're really revising history if you think that most of this board wasn't calling for us to retain Bowser long before we actually did - it's not us putting a spin on it, it's what we genuinely wanted to happen

in my ideal world we somehow kept Judon and Bowser but Bowser was always a "must keep"

Team literally followed everything I wanted them to do in the offseason. Keep bowser on team friendly deal, sign a vet(wanted Houston) and draft Oweh. Was a dream come true just for Wink to drop both in coverage and send our best cover corners to get no pressure.

 

[BoredMarine13]

we drafted an athletic OLB and let him hone his craft - we didn't take a high quality edge rusher and teach him to be good in coverage

and you're really revising history if you think that most of this board wasn't calling for us to retain Bowser long before we actually did - it's not us putting a spin on it, it's what we genuinely wanted to happen

in my ideal world we somehow kept Judon and Bowser but Bowser was always a "must keep"

I wasn’t saying spin in a negative light if that’s how it came off , just giving you props for making it into such a positive.

Yes we absolutely drafted Bowser for pass rushing skills. I think your being disingenuous by making it seem like the end game or drafting him was an athletic coverage line backer that sets the edge. I just googled his draft overview and the first three said…
“ ascending pass rush prospect …” (NFL)
“ flashes bend around the edge,Had a strong showing as pass rusher during senior bowl” (pff)
“Bowser is athletic with explosive speed and edge rushing skills for NFL” (Walter football)

I think we wanted a pass rush guy, it didn’t work out that way in Winks scheme, and now we’ve got a good player doing something different than what we originally envisioned. Further continuing our pass rushing woes


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[RavensMania]

we drafted an athletic OLB and let him hone his craft - we didn't take a high quality edge rusher and teach him to be good in coverage

and you're really revising history if you think that most of this board wasn't calling for us to retain Bowser long before we actually did - it's not us putting a spin on it, it's what we genuinely wanted to happen

in my ideal world we somehow kept Judon and Bowser but Bowser was always a "must keep"

I said multiple times, that if we retain one player, which I felt that is all we could afford, than I want it to be Bowser and feel he was the most important piece.

 

[RavensMania]

I wasn’t saying spin in a negative light if that’s how it came off , just giving you props for making it into such a positive.

Yes we absolutely drafted Bowser for pass rushing skills. I think your being disingenuous by making it seem like the end game or drafting him was an athletic coverage line backer that sets the edge. I just googled his draft overview and the first three said…
“ ascending pass rush prospect …” (NFL)
“ flashes bend around the edge,Had a strong showing as pass rusher during senior bowl” (pff)
“Bowser is athletic with explosive speed and edge rushing skills for NFL” (Walter football)

I think we wanted a pass rush guy, it didn’t work out that way in Winks scheme, and now we’ve got a good player doing something different than what we originally envisioned. Further continuing our pass rushing woes


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Also from his draft profile....

I watched a lot of his tape when he came out due to @Simba pointing him out to me prior to the draft during our Forum Mock. This was from NFL.com as you picked bits and pieces. His ability in coverage was his selling point. His ability to rush the passer was a question mark and talked about on the boards when we drafted him.

Strengths

• Explosive, quick-twitch athlete
• Bursts out of his stance and challenges the edge
• Good shoulder turn at the edge of rush and can dip and corner with very tight radius
• Showed ability to play in variety of spots
• Crisp change of direction ability
• Took to his coaching and showed drastic improvement against the run this year
• Played two years of college basketball at Houston which shows up with his footwork and fluidity when dropping into space
• Has ability to pattern match tight ends
• Light is starting to come on for him
• Should have a big day at the combine

Weaknesses

• Undersized on the edge
• May not have the frame to carry much more weight
• Can be engulfed by size
• Needs to get better with hands at point of attack
• Still has issues where he looks like a basketball guy learning football
• Production as pass rusher doesn't match his explosive traits
• Pass rush is built around athleticism and not enough around skill
• Has to get even tougher and more skilled against the run

 

[RavensMania]

I wasn’t saying spin in a negative light if that’s how it came off , just giving you props for making it into such a positive.

Yes we absolutely drafted Bowser for pass rushing skills. I think your being disingenuous by making it seem like the end game or drafting him was an athletic coverage line backer that sets the edge. I just googled his draft overview and the first three said…
“ ascending pass rush prospect …” (NFL)
“ flashes bend around the edge,Had a strong showing as pass rusher during senior bowl” (pff)
“Bowser is athletic with explosive speed and edge rushing skills for NFL” (Walter football)

I think we wanted a pass rush guy, it didn’t work out that way in Winks scheme, and now we’ve got a good player doing something different than what we originally envisioned. Further continuing our pass rushing woes


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Judon has the amount of sacks he has because he has already played more snaps this season than he did all of last year and that was the case a week or so ago. He's used differently in the Patriots system. It's better for his sack production, agreed, but that's not how he was used here. BTW, look at Judon's run defense numbers. They are just as bad if not worse in New England than they were here. BTW, I'm only brining up Judon becasue of how he is being used in New England vs. Here. It's not necessarily better, it's just different.

Bowser on the other hand, is a tremendous fit for our defense and a versatile weapon. We have our corners getting a bunch of sacks because of the deception that Wink employs in our defense. Sure we have a load of injuries which is limiting its effectiveness, but that's not the point.

 

[rossihunter2]

I wasn’t saying spin in a negative light if that’s how it came off , just giving you props for making it into such a positive.

Yes we absolutely drafted Bowser for pass rushing skills. I think your being disingenuous by making it seem like the end game or drafting him was an athletic coverage line backer that sets the edge. I just googled his draft overview and the first three said…
“ ascending pass rush prospect …” (NFL)
“ flashes bend around the edge,Had a strong showing as pass rusher during senior bowl” (pff)
“Bowser is athletic with explosive speed and edge rushing skills for NFL” (Walter football)

I think we wanted a pass rush guy, it didn’t work out that way in Winks scheme, and now we’ve got a good player doing something different than what we originally envisioned. Further continuing our pass rushing woes


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his draft profile was all athleticism and no refinement - ravens took on his athleticism and explosive traits and developed his skills using those traits - it happened that he became a great cover guy with the ability to become an outside pass rusher in fits and starts

the last thing to develop for him was the edge setting that he only really started to become consistent at later in 2020

we drafted an athletic OLB with the hope he'd become an edge pass threat who fit into our multiple scheme - he didnt fit the bill as a 3 down OLB but by 2019 he had become a 3rd down weapon where he was a movable chess piece in the defence who could be used in just about anyway you might think from just about any alignment...

you might see him standing out as the overhang defender and playing match coverage with a slot receiver, you might see him stood up over the centre and at the snap bail right under the first read, you might see him be the looper on a stunt from a 7t or a 3t, or you might see him lined up as a more traditional edge and rush but from that same space he could be picking up the RB in man

he's been especially good vs the browns the last 2 years

 

[rossihunter2]

Also from his draft profile....

I watched a lot of his tape when he came out due to @Simba pointing him out to me prior to the draft during our Forum Mock. This was from NFL.com as you picked bits and pieces. His ability in coverage was his selling point. His ability to rush the passer was a question mark and talked about on the boards when we drafted him.

Strengths

• Explosive, quick-twitch athlete
• Bursts out of his stance and challenges the edge
• Good shoulder turn at the edge of rush and can dip and corner with very tight radius
• Showed ability to play in variety of spots
• Crisp change of direction ability
• Took to his coaching and showed drastic improvement against the run this year
• Played two years of college basketball at Houston which shows up with his footwork and fluidity when dropping into space
• Has ability to pattern match tight ends
• Light is starting to come on for him
• Should have a big day at the combine

Weaknesses

• Undersized on the edge
• May not have the frame to carry much more weight
• Can be engulfed by size
• Needs to get better with hands at point of attack
• Still has issues where he looks like a basketball guy learning football
• Production as pass rusher doesn't match his explosive traits
• Pass rush is built around athleticism and not enough around skill
• Has to get even tougher and more skilled against the run

traitsy prospect with good understanding and movement skills in coverage but a raw pass rusher with some potential physical limitations developmentally against the run...

that's a pretty good profile by lance zierlein on that one

 

[JoeyFlex5]

we drafted an athletic OLB and let him hone his craft - we didn't take a high quality edge rusher and teach him to be good in coverage

and you're really revising history if you think that most of this board wasn't calling for us to retain Bowser long before we actually did - it's not us putting a spin on it, it's what we genuinely wanted to happen

in my ideal world we somehow kept Judon and Bowser but Bowser was always a "must keep"

Yeah I don’t think too many on this board wanted us to keep Judon over bowser lol, not to mention Judons sack total in NE means fuckall to the ravens, other than the fact that winks scheme proves more ineffective every time a pass rusher leaves.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I wasn’t saying spin in a negative light if that’s how it came off , just giving you props for making it into such a positive.

Yes we absolutely drafted Bowser for pass rushing skills. I think your being disingenuous by making it seem like the end game or drafting him was an athletic coverage line backer that sets the edge. I just googled his draft overview and the first three said…
“ ascending pass rush prospect …” (NFL)
“ flashes bend around the edge,Had a strong showing as pass rusher during senior bowl” (pff)
“Bowser is athletic with explosive speed and edge rushing skills for NFL” (Walter football)

I think we wanted a pass rush guy, it didn’t work out that way in Winks scheme, and now we’ve got a good player doing something different than what we originally envisioned. Further continuing our pass rushing woes


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Cherry picked descriptions but have you watched his film from Houston? Literally everyone on these boards, before we drafted him, were raving about his coverage ability. I recall hyping him up because of how many times he frustrated tf out of Lamar Jackson at Louisville.

the ravens didn’t take him to be a coverage backer, they took him to be a versatile weapon. Which he is.

 

[BoredMarine13]

his draft profile was all athleticism and no refinement - ravens took on his athleticism and explosive traits and developed his skills using those traits - it happened that he became a great cover guy with the ability to become an outside pass rusher in fits and starts

the last thing to develop for him was the edge setting that he only really started to become consistent at later in 2020

we drafted an athletic OLB with the hope he'd become an edge pass threat who fit into our multiple scheme - he didnt fit the bill as a 3 down OLB but by 2019 he had become a 3rd down weapon where he was a movable chess piece in the defence who could be used in just about anyway you might think from just about any alignment...

you might see him standing out as the overhang defender and playing match coverage with a slot receiver, you might see him stood up over the centre and at the snap bail right under the first read, you might see him be the looper on a stunt from a 7t or a 3t, or you might see him lined up as a more traditional edge and rush but from that same space he could be picking up the RB in man

he's been especially good vs the browns the last 2 years

Stop being so rationale and making me feel better about Bowser. I just want a GD pass rusher like Watt or Suggs.

I’m officially switching teams and joining @JoeyFlex with #fireWink, Roman can chill for one more year.


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