The Running Game, The 4th Quarter and Everyone's Blood Pressure

[29BmoreBird22]

My issue with Roman stems from his philosophy. His philosophy is sound, but limits his play calling.

The Roman philosophy is that the team should be able to pass or run equally well out of any formation so that a team cannot see how the Ravens line up and be instantly tipped off.

That sounds really great in theory, but it's poorly executed. The issue is the Ravens don't run theee wide or spread concepts with any consistency and the offense seems to primarily rely on heavy and tight formations, which are obviously conducive to running the ball well, but the issue comes from the passing game.

You're inherently shrinking the field by your formation and tightening the windows. I know we all complain about receivers being in the same area too consistently, and I'd argue that comes down to formation a lot.

Not to mention, a fullback is great for run blocking and it's a bonus if he can pass catch like Juice, but, Ricard isn't a major pass catching threat. He's not offering enough in the passing game to justify immediately taking away a pass catching option. It just limits who the defense has to cover.

The plays may very well be schemed decently in theory, but if you're consistently constricting the field and creating tighter than necessary windows and lowering the expected completion percentage...

Perhaps this comes down to how defenses are defending the Ravens on the whole, but I just think the offense generally isn't making things easy for the players. It might be one of those things that sounds really great on paper, but is too difficult to effectively execute given the personnel the Ravens have.

And what frustrates me is that when Huntley came in, the offense became incredibly simple. They went to spread concepts and a one read and throw offense. They just took away the decision making and just asked Huntley to play. Just make those easy pitch and catches.

I'm not going to suggest that the Ravens should simplify the offense so much that Lamar only makes one read and goes, but rather that perhaps it'd be helpful to just scheme up easy, simple throws to get into a rhythm and get the confidence going. Or hell, even adopt more spread looks in general.

Just some thoughts.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean lets just be fair. This team has probably the leagues worst WR and one great receiving TE. The kind of offense that you, I, and everyone wants to see is not even possible with what we got. So for me blame has to be analyzed in the following way.

Is it the case that EDC is doing EDC things and then when all is said and done, we find ourselves where we do and that's with a garbage WR corps, thus forcing GRo into 22 personnel?

Or is it that Roman is incapable of running the conventional offense and so given that the HC continues to employ this guy, EDC has given Greg what he has to try and maximize GRos success?

In one case I feel bad for Roman and think he's doing his best with that he's got. In the other he's gotta go.

So while I don't think our pass catching core is great, there are many teams in this conference alone that I'd say are on par with us in terms of pass catching personnel, and there's many I wouldn't trade our units straight up for there's.

Namely:
Patriots
Browns
literally the entire AFC South
And yes, the Chiefs

If any of those teams offered to trade me their pass catching groups (WRs and TEs) for ours, I would decline. I don't see how any of those teams groups would be materially better than what we have. And most of them would be vastly more expensive.

That's basically 50% of the AFC alone.

In the NFC, I'd say Giants, Bears, Packers and Panthers would be four teams I'd not trade our event for there's.

So, at minimum, there's 10-11 teams in this league that I think are overall worse in terms of receivers/TEs than we are.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It's sort of this way, yeah. I would say it's more like this...

1. Offense comes out explosive, scoring points
2. Defense holds its own but has cracks and breaks; not necessarily a lost war but some lost battles
3. Offense begins to struggle, costly turnovers or poor execution/calls cause stalled drives
4. Defense breaks more as Offense struggles

Part of me blames the defense because I'm not sure Peters looks great out there. He's been targeted a lot more than normal and he has had his struggles. Maybe with some pressure we get better. I actually think Humphrey has played outstanding TBH. Williams' loss was a HUGE one for us, IMHO. Any update on him btw? Losing Pierce has also been equally rough. Getting back Bowser and bringing in Ojabo will be huge for the cornerbacks. If we can get back Williams that will be grand. One of the biggest issues I see is our run defense. It is not good.

Marlon has basically been a lock down Corner all year. Part of it is the coverages, but teams aren't even really throwing at him anymore. You go entire games without seeing him basically do anything, which is precisely what you want from a Corner.

Peters has been hit or miss. My concern with Peters (though its still early) is part of his "schtick" has always been that he'll take chances and get beat sometimes, but he offsets that with forced turnovers and big plays. We're not getting much of the latter to this point. But again, its early.

 

[rmcjacket23]

My issue with Roman stems from his philosophy. His philosophy is sound, but limits his play calling.

The Roman philosophy is that the team should be able to pass or run equally well out of any formation so that a team cannot see how the Ravens line up and be instantly tipped off.

That sounds really great in theory, but it's poorly executed. The issue is the Ravens don't run theee wide or spread concepts with any consistency and the offense seems to primarily rely on heavy and tight formations, which are obviously conducive to running the ball well, but the issue comes from the passing game.

You're inherently shrinking the field by your formation and tightening the windows. I know we all complain about receivers being in the same area too consistently, and I'd argue that comes down to formation a lot.

Not to mention, a fullback is great for run blocking and it's a bonus if he can pass catch like Juice, but, Ricard isn't a major pass catching threat. He's not offering enough in the passing game to justify immediately taking away a pass catching option. It just limits who the defense has to cover.

The plays may very well be schemed decently in theory, but if you're consistently constricting the field and creating tighter than necessary windows and lowering the expected completion percentage...

Perhaps this comes down to how defenses are defending the Ravens on the whole, but I just think the offense generally isn't making things easy for the players. It might be one of those things that sounds really great on paper, but is too difficult to effectively execute given the personnel the Ravens have.

And what frustrates me is that when Huntley came in, the offense became incredibly simple. They went to spread concepts and a one read and throw offense. They just took away the decision making and just asked Huntley to play. Just make those easy pitch and catches.

I'm not going to suggest that the Ravens should simplify the offense so much that Lamar only makes one read and goes, but rather that perhaps it'd be helpful to just scheme up easy, simple throws to get into a rhythm and get the confidence going. Or hell, even adopt more spread looks in general.

Just some thoughts.

I'm not committing to it yet, but I'm slowly, slowly, slowly starting to come to the side of an OC change next year might be best. Still have a full season ahead, so I'm not convinced yet. But there seems to be a plateau effect happening that can't happen when you have Lamar in a contract year.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

I'm not committing to it yet, but I'm slowly, slowly, slowly starting to come to the side of an OC change next year might be best. Still have a full season ahead, so I'm not convinced yet. But there seems to be a plateau effect happening that can't happen when you have Lamar in a contract year.

He hit his high-water mark in 2019 and has been declining since. But that's his pattern in all of the teams he's OC'd for. He is not bad, but there's no graduate level course in his Playbook. He has also benefited from some quarterbacks that have had some unique skill sets when it comes to mobility. I think a lot of that has bailed him out to an extent.

My position is - and has been - that if they are going to commit to Lamar, then overpay if you have to on the OC to find a bona-fide offensive mind with maybe a Super Bowl victory or two on his resume.

 

[redrum52]

Not for nothing I heard there was a poster here saying that we've basically peaked with Roman.... saying we should can him.. saying fuck Greg Roman because there won't be any advancement and the offense as a whole won't get over the hump with his bitch ass at the helm. Not sure though who it was... glad more are beginning to see the light

 

[drjohnnyfever]

My issue with Roman stems from his philosophy. His philosophy is sound, but limits his play calling.

The Roman philosophy is that the team should be able to pass or run equally well out of any formation so that a team cannot see how the Ravens line up and be instantly tipped off.

That sounds really great in theory, but it's poorly executed. The issue is the Ravens don't run theee wide or spread concepts with any consistency and the offense seems to primarily rely on heavy and tight formations, which are obviously conducive to running the ball well, but the issue comes from the passing game.

You're inherently shrinking the field by your formation and tightening the windows. I know we all complain about receivers being in the same area too consistently, and I'd argue that comes down to formation a lot.

Not to mention, a fullback is great for run blocking and it's a bonus if he can pass catch like Juice, but, Ricard isn't a major pass catching threat. He's not offering enough in the passing game to justify immediately taking away a pass catching option. It just limits who the defense has to cover.

The plays may very well be schemed decently in theory, but if you're consistently constricting the field and creating tighter than necessary windows and lowering the expected completion percentage...

Perhaps this comes down to how defenses are defending the Ravens on the whole, but I just think the offense generally isn't making things easy for the players. It might be one of those things that sounds really great on paper, but is too difficult to effectively execute given the personnel the Ravens have.

And what frustrates me is that when Huntley came in, the offense became incredibly simple. They went to spread concepts and a one read and throw offense. They just took away the decision making and just asked Huntley to play. Just make those easy pitch and catches.

I'm not going to suggest that the Ravens should simplify the offense so much that Lamar only makes one read and goes, but rather that perhaps it'd be helpful to just scheme up easy, simple throws to get into a rhythm and get the confidence going. Or hell, even adopt more spread looks in general.

Just some thoughts.

I think you are correct in your analysis, but how is it that an OFF that constricts the field is a sound OFF philosophy when you have a generational QB - according to many - who benefits from having space? Here, let's take this giant field that our mobile QB has to move in and cut it by a 1/3rd, forcing him into a smaller space, with smaller windows of escape, tighter pockets to throw from, and tighter windows to connect passes within, and allowing every defender, basically, inside the hatches. That doesn't sound "sound" to me. What you've described so accurately is the failure of his system.

 

[UPennChem]

Why is it that other teams with shitty players especially at QB are

My issue with Roman stems from his philosophy. His philosophy is sound, but limits his play calling.

The Roman philosophy is that the team should be able to pass or run equally well out of any formation so that a team cannot see how the Ravens line up and be instantly tipped off.

That sounds really great in theory, but it's poorly executed. The issue is the Ravens don't run theee wide or spread concepts with any consistency and the offense seems to primarily rely on heavy and tight formations, which are obviously conducive to running the ball well, but the issue comes from the passing game.

You're inherently shrinking the field by your formation and tightening the windows. I know we all complain about receivers being in the same area too consistently, and I'd argue that comes down to formation a lot.

Not to mention, a fullback is great for run blocking and it's a bonus if he can pass catch like Juice, but, Ricard isn't a major pass catching threat. He's not offering enough in the passing game to justify immediately taking away a pass catching option. It just limits who the defense has to cover.

The plays may very well be schemed decently in theory, but if you're consistently constricting the field and creating tighter than necessary windows and lowering the expected completion percentage...

Perhaps this comes down to how defenses are defending the Ravens on the whole, but I just think the offense generally isn't making things easy for the players. It might be one of those things that sounds really great on paper, but is too difficult to effectively execute given the personnel the Ravens have.

And what frustrates me is that when Huntley came in, the offense became incredibly simple. They went to spread concepts and a one read and throw offense. They just took away the decision making and just asked Huntley to play. Just make those easy pitch and catches.

I'm not going to suggest that the Ravens should simplify the offense so much that Lamar only makes one read and goes, but rather that perhaps it'd be helpful to just scheme up easy, simple throws to get into a rhythm and get the confidence going. Or hell, even adopt more spread looks in general.

Just some thoughts.

This is EXACTLY how I see things. Roman has his whole suite on offense right now. It's time to adapt and right the ship or this is his last year here.

 

[UPennChem]

Not for nothing I heard there was a poster here saying that we've basically peaked with Roman.... saying we should can him.. saying fuck Greg Roman because there won't be any advancement and the offense as a whole won't get over the hump with his bitch ass at the helm. Not sure though who it was... glad more are beginning to see the light

People have been saying this for 3 years. It's that Roman got some praise during weeks 1-3 for the dynamic passing game that was displayed. He was given benefit of the doubt because of that for the next 3 weeks. Then after this last one its totally back to what people have been saying since 2020. It's now so clear after having so much time to watch his offenses.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I think you are correct in your analysis, but how is it that an OFF that constricts the field is a sound OFF philosophy when you have a generational QB - according to many - who benefits from having space? Here, let's take this giant field that our mobile QB has to move in and cut it by a 1/3rd, forcing him into a smaller space, with smaller windows of escape, tighter pockets to throw from, and tighter windows to connect passes within, and allowing every defender, basically, inside the hatches. That doesn't sound "sound" to me. What you've described so accurately is the failure of his system.

What I find to be sound is the idea of running and passing equally well from any look.

However, the failure is constricting the field so heavily and making it difficult on the players to create the needed space.

 

[UPennChem]

What I find to be sound is the idea of running and passing equally well from any look.

However, the failure is constricting the field so heavily and making it difficult on the players to create the needed space.

The successful alternatives are the following.

Pretty much don't run at all and have an elite passing game. See Buffalo and KC.

Separate your run game and pass game looks from each other, but just be dominant in both. Get yards on the ground when you need them and get yards in the air when you need them even if they know what type of play is coming.

We'll never be option 1, but there's no reason with an entirely different coordinator and an improved WRs corps we couldn't become optimion 2.

 

[drjohnnyfever]

What I find to be sound is the idea of running and passing equally well from any look.

However, the failure is constricting the field so heavily and making it difficult on the players to create the needed space.

Fair enough.

 

[Tank]

Marlon has basically been a lock down Corner all year. Part of it is the coverages, but teams aren't even really throwing at him anymore. You go entire games without seeing him basically do anything, which is precisely what you want from a Corner.

Peters has been hit or miss. My concern with Peters (though its still early) is part of his "schtick" has always been that he'll take chances and get beat sometimes, but he offsets that with forced turnovers and big plays. We're not getting much of the latter to this point. But again, its early.

I think Peters is still working to get back to full speed, not worried about him at all.

 

[UPennChem]

I was saying this ALL game. The scheme has been totally to the success of the run game and to the detriment of the passing game.

But as I showed you with your stats through 6 weeks (I updated for week 7 too, nothing changed) our rushing yards doesn't correlate with points. Our passing yards are what correlates with points. So until we start passing the ball better we'll keep running the ball efficiently, score around 20 points largely on field goals and every game will be close meaning we'll win only slightly more than we lose.

 

[Adreme]

I was saying this ALL game. The scheme has been totally to the success of the run game and to the detriment of the passing game.

But as I showed you with your stats through 6 weeks (I updated for week 7 too, nothing changed) our rushing yards doesn't correlate with points. Our passing yards are what correlates with points. So until we start passing the ball better we'll keep running the ball efficiently, score around 20 points largely on field goals and every game will be close meaning we'll win only slightly more than we lose.

When they pass it though the past 4 weeks they have been horrible with tons of missed throws. The 4th quarter turnover stat is just awful with almost half of the Ravens full possessions ending in turnovers with 4 of them being INTs and multiple fumbles some also by Jackson. Teams have figured out that instead of blitzing they can just sit back in protection and dare Lamar to read the defense and make the big-time throw and as of yet when they try to let him he misses it. Combine that with on the instance he does make the throw the hands have sometimes faltered and you just have plenty of failure to go around. You can say they only threw it 16 times but he only completed 9 of them so did anything in the passing game make you think more of it was the solution?

 

[Tank]

When they pass it though the past 4 weeks they have been horrible with tons of missed throws. The 4th quarter turnover stat is just awful with almost half of the Ravens full possessions ending in turnovers with 4 of them being INTs and multiple fumbles some also by Jackson. Teams have figured out that instead of blitzing they can just sit back in protection and dare Lamar to read the defense and make the big-time throw and as of yet when they try to let him he misses it. Combine that with on the instance he does make the throw the hands have sometimes faltered and you just have plenty of failure to go around but you can say they only threw it 16 times but he only completed 9 of them so did anything in the passing game make you think more of it was the solution?

I'm not fully blowing off the GRo issues, but if you don't at least execute the easy ones it's impossible to accurately assess.

 

[UPennChem]

Somehow Stone had the top pff grade this week. He had 2 bad plays but maybe a whole bunch of excellent plays otherwise??

 

[Deebo813]

Marlon has basically been a lock down Corner all year. Part of it is the coverages, but teams aren't even really throwing at him anymore. You go entire games without seeing him basically do anything, which is precisely what you want from a Corner.

Peters has been hit or miss. My concern with Peters (though its still early) is part of his "schtick" has always been that he'll take chances and get beat sometimes, but he offsets that with forced turnovers and big plays. We're not getting much of the latter to this point. But again, its early.

Havent seen any gambling from peters yet this year. Maybe those opportunities just havent come yet

 

[Deebo813]

Somehow Stone had the top pff grade this week. He had 2 bad plays but maybe a whole bunch of excellent plays otherwise??

Geno trash

 

[UPennChem]

Geno trash

Nah.