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Lamar Jackson

Discussion in 'Ravens Talk' started by Ice Bowl, May 9, 2018.

  1. ravenslord

    ravenslord Veteran

    The Chargers knew every fucking play whether we were gonna run or pass.
    Thats on our WELL DESERVED FIRED OC! It's probably why he got fired.

    Lamar deserved better and so did we. With Lamar's work ethic, I will annoint him a NFL franchise QB right now.

    Fuck the naysayers.
     
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  2. Lost_In_Translation

    Lost_In_Translation Staff Member Administrator Writer

    Going through and doing a review one month later. The offense we ran was a gimmick, and it needed to be with how bad the two interior olinemen were who singlehandedly wrecked our season(fuck you Hurst and Skura. Average starters my ass). Lamar had flashes of absolute brilliance in both facets. I highly disagree with @JoeyFlex5's assessment of him. He's never going to be a 4000 yard guy but I could see him with 3500 passing yards as soon as next year.

    Most of my concerns with him right now are fixable. Fumbles. That's fine. The mechanics have already been improving and when he's had time to set his feet he's had several MONEY throws. The pocket awareness is awesome, and the decision making isn't bad. I have the utmost confidence in James Urban and company to continue developing him with mechanics. And if he progresses at the rate he's been going, we could be talking about a franchise QB here.

    We could be talking about an elite QB if my biggest concern is something he improves on. If he can learn how to read defenses pre-snap and post-snap adaquately, I think that will make him unstoppable.

    Of course. We do have to build the roster around him. What he needs more than anything right now is a real C. Our oline did not beat people off of the ball and Skura was a fucking joke. And yes @RavensMania, I am never going to let you hear the end of that. He was an albatross this season and the tape supports it. But other than that I think the foundation is set. The two TEs are going to do very well for him, and Snead should be a top priority to resign in 2020. Words cannot describe how underrated Snead is. From that point, we are going to need a deep threat too. But right now, in order of importance, we need a C, RB, LG, and then another WR.
     
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  3. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Ravens Ring of Honor

    I never had a hard assessment saying I predict this or that for lamar lol, it’s just that so much of our expectations of him are based on a huge progression, that I need to see the progression before I fully believe in it. I absolutely think lamar could hit 3500 as long as he’s got an OL, a WR better than anything he’s got right now, and if he makes the right progress. I love some of what I’ve seen from lamar as a passer, the most refreshing thing after a decade of flacco is seeing lamar shift around the pocket, buying time with subtle steps and resetting, some of the throws where he would split 2 defenders throwing to a spot before the wr even makes his break, he really showed some brilliance, he was better than even I expected and I had huge expectations.

    My whole thing is, he’s progressed so much basically every year since his first year in college, at what point does the natural progression stop or slow? Is there ever a point where he plateaus? All players do eventually and lamar has already improved so goddamn much I worry that it has to stop. So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

    All this with the caveat that I’m as big a fan of lamar as anyone.
     
  4. Everything you said before establishing his ceiling of passing and rushing are in direct conflict no? I agree with you that Lamar has shown constant improvement through the last 4 yrs including college, year on year. He has proven that he is coachable. He's a gym rat and very hard working. Everything leads me to believe that his progression will continue and not suddenly plateau as you surmise it might. Two straight years ending his college career he had over 3200 yds in 13 games. This past year he only played 7. I really don't see a reason if he's progressing year upon year, he suddenly stops that progress or plateaus suddenly. I think he'll actually pass for 3500 yds comfortably next year because they'll devise a game plan and add the right weapons for him to be successful passing. I don't think the Ravens win many games if he passes for 2000 and rushes for 1000 do you? I actually think he'll hit 3500 yds passing but may not rush for 1000.
     
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  5. RavensMania

    RavensMania Staff Member Moderator

    Some players have less progression to make (Luck) than Lamar. The question you pose is really based on the player and not set in stone for each one.
     
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  6. Deebo813

    Deebo813 MVP

    If 2k and 1k is his ceililing, we need a new qb now.. i like lamar but i cant blame you for thinking like that. We really dont know what we are gonna get outta him. Only good thing is that he really wants to be a great qb so far has been putting in the work
     
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  7. RavensMania

    RavensMania Staff Member Moderator

    I said Skura was average in this system, but also said we should get better at the position, If you’re not playing within this system, he downright sucks. If you go back you will see that I said Lamar aided him.
     
  8. Adreme

    Adreme MVP

    I'm confused by how you say he will never be a 4k guy but could be a 3500 guy next year. Does that mean no improvement after that? If he is 3500 next year I would expect 4k year 3.
     
  9. Deebo813

    Deebo813 MVP

    To be fair, it happened with joe. I think he threw for 4k once but in a season where it really didnt matter
     
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  10. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Ravens Ring of Honor

    There comes a point where the natural talent has to be there for the work ethic to bring it to the surface, and if lamar doesn’t have the natural arm talent and his arm is just what it is, then I don’t see him passing for 3500. When I wonder if he’ll plateau, it’s because work ethic can only take you so far if the arm talent is just missing.

    I’m not saying he’ll plateau, I’m saying I worry that he will, meaning I’m basically gonna be a pussy about lamar and make no definitive statements and only say that I’m a huge fan and I support him lol
     
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  11. cdp

    cdp Veteran

    Like Deebo said we really don't know yet. We're building a new offense and they better not design a 75% rushing offense if we want to play winning football
     
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  12. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Ravens Ring of Honor

    I say that’s his ceiling for year 2, sorry that wasn’t clear in the post. I hope and reasonably expect that by year 3-4 he’s right around 3k with really high rushing numbers and a top 3 rush offense every year, but I just can’t say I’m expecting 3500 in year 2, that’s just a gigantic leap for not only him, but also for the coaching staff and supporting cast, when we don’t have a 3500yd type of wr corps nor do we have the OC for it, toss in a head coach who is infamously bad with Xs and Os and adjustments and it looks like a reach to expect that
     
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  13. balfan23

    balfan23 Pro Bowler

    No doubt a 2k passing and 1k rushing ceiling for Lamar will be a disaster and we'd need a new QB, but we don't know that now. We should know by the end of next year. Heck - forget that being his ceiling (since we shouldn't expect him to reach his ceiling at the end of his first full season) ... if he puts up that stat line next year, I believe we'll rethink Lamar as our franchise QB. With that line we'll be lucky to be 5-11 next year and we'll be drafting a QB in 2020.

    That would be the "storm" that Brian Billick thinks could be coming our way (given his lack of belief that Lamar will rise above relying on his pure athleticism).

    To me the worst case scenario is he gets hurt early and then we don't know what we have. Can we go into 2020 draft not knowing and not draft QB - especially if we go in the tank and have a high draft pick (which won't be hard to imagine in that scenario). Lamar is going to obviously need to show significant progress through the season for us to be able to rely on him as our franchise.
     
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  14. RavensMania

    RavensMania Staff Member Moderator

    it was also in the season he passed the more than any other qb and his ypa was towards the bottom.
     
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  15. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    just a quibble

    2000 yard season is 125 passing yards a game...

    lamar's already with a limited passing attack and playbook averaging 163.5...

    that's literally 14 yards per game under 3000 a year...

    for his ceiling to be 2000 yards right now you'd have to be expecting both lamar and the passing game as a whole to take a gigantic step backwards because even in a holding pattern at his current rate he'd get over 2500 in a season...

    to add some extra perspective: 3500 yards is less than 220 yards a game
     
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  16. balfan23

    balfan23 Pro Bowler

    Yeah - thanks. 2K passing for the season would be beyond dreadful and your breakdown puts it into perspective.

    In reality, we can't get too caught up in these kinds of stats. We've never been a stat driven team. It is that kind of stat analysis that has repeatedly told the league how Flacco wasn't as good as Schaub in the late 2000s, or any of the other QBs who had a better fantasy season than Flacco over the years. Most all of these QBs that have been "better than Flacco" have been out of the league for years.

    It will be about results ... which sometimes means "managing" the game. That's become a dirty word, but there is nothing wrong with that. All it means is your QB is doing the things he needs to do to see the team to a W.

    That's the only stat that matters.
     
  17. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Ravens Ring of Honor

    Never was very good at math. Nor did I apply ANY context to what I was saying.

    I’ll just fuck off now...
     
  18. ravenslord

    ravenslord Veteran

    Brian Billick can kiss my ass. This lousy coach and strong advocate of bringing in Elvis Grbac, one of the worst decisions in Ravens history, is a piece of shit Lamar hater. Didn't he also want Kyle Boller?

    Lamar has shown more in a few games than Grbac and Boller did in multiple seasons.

    Man was I glad when his dumb ass was canned!!!!
     
  19. BaltRavens

    BaltRavens Practice Squad

    In Billick's corner, he did win a Super Bowl, but could be held accountable for Boller as a bust.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  20. Tank

    Tank Ravens Ring of Honor

    Billick’s take is based in facts. The Ravens have gone all in on a phenomenal athlete that in his words and many people’s opinion is a QB that ”can kinda throw”. It’s a huge gamble and just as Brian says it will be boom or bust. TBH it’s always seemed like an odd move to me and a peculiar gamble for a historically conservative and successful franchise to make.
     

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