Lamar Jackson

[rossihunter2]

Its a glass ceiling that needs to be shattered but Russel Wilson...…….. I think has already done that lol. Historic QBs like Doug Williams and Warren Moon previously shattered any myth about black QBs.

the ceiling still exists but i think it feels like there's a watershed moment coming (or it's happening right now) - it feels fundamentally this year that there is a group of trailblazers of all different types of people who are in their own way absolutely destroying stereotypes and comporting themselves honestly and i think this year is legitimately going to change how the NFL views qbs in the future

there's a revolution that's been happening in the NFL now since Kaepernick first kneeled which created the conditions for this kind of on the field play by a group of young black qbs to be taken in the manner its being taken this year by the vast majority of the league

my real hope is that this is the year of the epiphany

 

[rossihunter2]

Not necessarily. I get what you are saying; cats like Moon, Cunningham, Vick and definitely Doug Williams shattered the myth that a black man couldn't play the QB position. And yes, Wilson won a Super Bowl title but let's keep it real; his complexion doesn't look like Lamar. He doesn't have that "DARK SKIN" as Ryan mentioned. And, he definitely doesn't wear afro-centric braids.

absolutely, lamar is unapologetically black and also incredible at playing quarterback and is proving in that way that those 2 things are not mutually exclusive - he doesnt fit himself within existing criteria both on and off the field and so has revolutionised how people start thinking about the position

 

[Willbacker]

the ceiling still exists but i think it feels like there's a watershed moment coming (or it's happening right now) - it feels fundamentally this year that there is a group of trailblazers of all different types of people who are in their own way absolutely destroying stereotypes and comporting themselves honestly and i think this year is legitimately going to change how the NFL views qbs in the future

there's a revolution that's been happening in the NFL now since Kaepernick first kneeled which created the conditions for this kind of on the field play by a group of young black qbs to be taken in the manner its being taken this year by the vast majority of the league

my real hope is that this is the year of the epiphany

It had nothing to do with his kneeling. Good black QB play and that type of offense was going on well before that.

 

[Tank]

i think the thing is, he doesnt make this comment unless there's some subconscious biases that ingrained in the way people talk and experience the NFL (and wider society) and while the intention might not have been to be racist, there's still a system around Ryan that has affected the way he thinks and experiences the sport and it has led to him saying what he said even if that's not what he meant

I guess I'm fortunate in that I grew up in a culture where you don't judge people by their color, you determine what they are by their actions, not what they look like. Some of my best friends were, are and will be of all races and cultures. We've experienced and learned together how to navigate the bias and bigotry. Given that perspective I can say with confidence that for some the sub conscious biases go both ways. And while numbers/ratio definitely tilt it one way, it ain't just a "white problem". If we don't start to recognize that and deal with it nothing will ever improve.

Taking a fairly innocuous comment and making the leap saying it was made due to an "ingrained" bias, and then turning it into a history lesson in racism is nothing but counter productive. Everyone that matters or cares knows that bias and racism exist, the ubiquitous daily reminders at every perceived opportunity are not necessary, and in fact toxic. At some point we ALL have to take a more positive view and move forward or things will never improve.

 

[rossihunter2]

It had nothing to do with his kneeling. Good black QB play and that type of offense was going on well before that.

the kneeling opened up the conversation around the NFL more generally with regards to the system of racial oppression that still exists within the US, this is an on-field extension of that conversation - that's how they're linked - after Kaep, you end up with the player community initiatives to spread awareness about police violence and relationships with people of colour and their communities among many other things that are related to race and class - those conversations naturally have changed the politics around the NFL in the last 3 years which has helped facilitate what you're seeing this year

it's not the only reason but it is a contributing factor to why the discussion around lamar has been so heavily contextualised this year and why that's different to every other year in NFL history

 

[rossihunter2]

I guess I'm fortunate in that I grew up in a culture where you don't judge people by their color, you determine what they are by their actions, not what they look like. Some of my best friends were, are and will be of all races and cultures. We've experienced and learned together how to navigate the bias and bigotry. Given that perspective I can say with confidence that for some the sub conscious biases go both ways. And while numbers/ratio definitely tilt it one way, it ain't just a "white problem". If we don't start to recognize that and deal with it nothing will ever improve.

Taking a fairly innocuous comment and making the leap saying it was made due to an "ingrained" bias, and then turning it into a history lesson in racism is nothing but counter productive. Everyone that matters or cares knows that bias and racism exist, the ubiquitous daily reminders at every perceived opportunity are not necessary, and in fact toxic. At some point we ALL have to take a more positive view and move forward or things will never improve.

i mean clearly i disagree with that - not sure how its counter productive - if you ignore the racial element when its present even if it's "innocuous" then how does the discussion ever move forward into that more positive space that you want to get to

in fact that idea of taking a more positive view is inherently a privileged perspective because that bias and system doesnt penalise you so you dont have to think about it - even that is a privilege

im not accusing anyone of anything malicious or anything like that - i just find it interesting to interrogate (in my own life also) the biases that exist with regards to race - i dont find it toxic to examine failings in the way i was brought up and the system that i was brought up in

 

[Willbacker]

the kneeling opened up the conversation around the NFL more generally with regards to the system of racial oppression that still exists within the US, this is an on-field extension of that conversation - that's how they're linked - after Kaep, you end up with the player community initiatives to spread awareness about police violence and relationships with people of colour and their communities among many other things that are related to race and class - those conversations naturally have changed the politics around the NFL in the last 3 years which has helped facilitate what you're seeing this year

it's not the only reason but it is a contributing factor to why the discussion around lamar has been so heavily contextualised this year and why that's different to every other year in NFL history

What I underlined is false. Coaches,GMs,owners they could care less of color to putting the best team they can out on the field and that includes the QB position. Tim Tebow was asked to workout at other positions as have other white college QBs. The farce is that black QBs by many were regarded as run first QBs not that they couldnt play the position. Its an unfair label that needs to be tossed in a trash can.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i think the thing is, he doesnt make this comment unless there's some subconscious biases that ingrained in the way people talk and experience the NFL (and wider society) and while the intention might not have been to be racist, there's still a system around Ryan that has affected the way he thinks and experiences the sport and it has led to him saying what he said even if that's not what he meant

I’m gonna say a thing here, and I want you to respond...

A football is brown, my skin is a shade of ivory, Lamar Jackson’s skin is a shade of brown. One is closer to the color of a football than the other.

Is that a statement deeply rooted in institutional racism? Is it inherently racist to simply acknowledge that white and black people have different shades of skin? Did I just type that comment because 400 years of oppression towards black people have conditioned me to believe that? Or is it just a fact that I typed?

This is where I just can’t get on board, I’m a white man, born and raised in a mass majority black city, the 2 generations of me prior are from the same city, mom and dads side of the family, I didn’t suffer the same struggles as a lot of black Americans have, but I was brought up in a shared environment with many African Americans, and often throughout my entire life found myself the minority in my surroundings, I respect and acknowledge the plight of African Americans, I’ve always felt very accepted and respected by black Americans in general and have always loved the mainstream culture, but does it REALLY make me a racist to say that Lamar Jackson has darker skin than me? I’m sorry I just can’t agree with this.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

See and that's where I disagree. Unfortunately, white people (not all of course) have been conditioned in this nation over the years to "think about," and "view" black people and the black male in particular; in a certain light. Historically, that was done through a "system". Now, as a black man who has dealt with racism my entire life, I could go on and on about the various vehicles used in that "system" that aided in formulating white America's views about my community but time would fail us and it would be futile in a forum instead of our having a sit-down face to face encounter to discuss important matters such as these.

That’s a discussion I’d love to have, I have always been more on the side of acknowledging and respecting differences, and I feel that the “color blind” approach is incredibly irresponsible and the end result would be all cultures washing away and forgotten as we all become one and burn the history books to forget all past cultures in fear of offending someone.

Is it institutionalized racism for me, a white man, to say that Lamar Jackson has darker skin than me?

 

[Militant X 1]

I guess I'm fortunate in that I grew up in a culture where you don't judge people by their color, you determine what they are by their actions, not what they look like. Some of my best friends were, are and will be of all races and cultures. We've experienced and learned together how to navigate the bias and bigotry. Given that perspective I can say with confidence that for some the sub conscious biases go both ways. And while numbers/ratio definitely tilt it one way, it ain't just a "white problem". If we don't start to recognize that and deal with it nothing will ever improve.

Taking a fairly innocuous comment and making the leap saying it was made due to an "ingrained" bias, and then turning it into a history lesson in racism is nothing but counter productive. Everyone that matters or cares knows that bias and racism exist, the ubiquitous daily reminders at every perceived opportunity are not necessary, and in fact toxic. At some point we ALL have to take a more positive view and move forward or things will never improve.

Those so-called, "history lessons on racism" are critical in discussions of this magnitude (especially between blacks and whites) because without knowing and acknowledging where these racist and bigoted ideologies originated and why they continue to be perpetuated throughout our society; we can and never will "take a more positive view and move forward for things to improve" as you mentioned. The only thing non-productive in my view is trying to avoid the ugliness of the historical truths about the systemic racism that shapes one's ideologies and harmful stereotypes. That must be traced, faced and then it can be erased!

 

[rossihunter2]

I’m gonna say a thing here, and I want you to respond...

A football is brown, my skin is a shade of ivory, Lamar Jackson’s skin is a shade of brown. One is closer to the color of a football than the other.

Is that a statement deeply rooted in institutional racism? Is it inherently racist to simply acknowledge that white and black people have different shades of skin? Did I just type that comment because 400 years of oppression towards black people have conditioned me to believe that? Or is it just a fact that I typed?

This is where I just can’t get on board, I’m a white man, born and raised in a mass majority black city, the 2 generations of me prior are from the same city, mom and dads side of the family, I didn’t suffer the same struggles as a lot of black Americans have, but I was brought up in a shared environment with many African Americans, and often throughout my entire life found myself the minority in my surroundings, I respect and acknowledge the plight of African Americans, I’ve always felt very accepted and respected by black Americans in general and have always loved the mainstream culture, but does it REALLY make me a racist to say that Lamar Jackson has darker skin than me? I’m sorry I just can’t agree with this.

the problem is not really to do with the ball colour with the skin - and of course its not racist to acknowledge different skin colours - if anything it is way more problematic to pretend that different skin colours dont exist - the problem in this instance is that its a thought that doesnt pop up without the idea that his skill cant be just because he's great so the rationalisation goes to the suggestion of some sort of "unfair" advantage when in fact its not to do with that at all

 

[rossihunter2]

That’s a discussion I’d love to have, I have always been more on the side of acknowledging and respecting differences, and I feel that the “color blind” approach is incredibly irresponsible and the end result would be all cultures washing away and forgotten as we all become one and burn the history books to forget all past cultures in fear of offending someone.

Is it institutionalized racism for me, a white man, to say that Lamar Jackson has darker skin than me?

i 100% agree the colour blind "approach" is a huge problem because it ignores the entire root of the issue of racism and is basically an excuse for some people to get defensive when they make stupid comments

 

[JoeyFlex5]

the problem is not really to do with the ball or the skin - and of course its not racist to acknowledge different skin colours - if anything it is way more problematic to pretend that different skin colours dont exist - the problem in this instance is that its a thought that doesnt pop up without the idea that his skill cant be just because he's great so the rationalisation goes to the suggestion of some sort of "unfair" advantage when in fact its not to do with that at all

I don’t think the guy is unwilling to admit that Lamar Jackson has been great lol, id say that’s about as much of a reach as Ryan claiming that Lamar’s skin color gives him an advantage in ball fakes.

He was attempting to describe some conditions of the game and further defend his team that bit of the fakes all day. His attempt, sadly, related to race and that was his fatal flaw. If he were speaking on the browns and said the browns uniform made it hard to find the ball, he would be laughed at for saying something stupid, but change “uniform” to “skin” and now it’s institutionalized racism.

Until he comes out and says that he doesn’t think Lamar is great at play fakes and is using his skin color as an unfair advantage, then I will consider these claims a reach lol

 

[Militant X 1]

That’s a discussion I’d love to have, I have always been more on the side of acknowledging and respecting differences, and I feel that the “color blind” approach is incredibly irresponsible and the end result would be all cultures washing away and forgotten as we all become one and burn the history books to forget all past cultures in fear of offending someone.

Is it institutionalized racism for me, a white man, to say that Lamar Jackson has darker skin than me?

Me too my friend. And, I definitely agree that the "color-blind" approach is erroneous cause it is obvious that one's skin color and nationality still plays a major role in our society today and it shouldn't!

Now, the answer to your question is based upon the context of the statement.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Me too my friend. And, I definitely agree that the "color-blind" approach is erroneous cause it is obvious that one's skin color and nationality still plays a major role in our society today and it shouldn't!

Now, the answer to your question is based upon the context of the statement.

so do you believe the context was Ryan implying that Lamars skin color gave him an unfair advantage, because otherwise theres no way this black qb can be this damn good? was he reaching for an excuse as to why his defense was getting shredded by a black qb because black qbs just cant be good? or was he reaching for a stupid talking point to try to defend his team who just got shredded by a qb who is great at play fakes?

maybe its naivete or dumb innocence(not something i wouldve ever thought id associate my cynical self with), but i lean towards the latter.

 

[Militant X 1]

so do you believe the context was Ryan implying that Lamars skin color gave him an unfair advantage, because otherwise theres no way this black qb can be this damn good? was he reaching for an excuse as to why his defense was getting shredded by a black qb because black qbs just cant be good? or was he reaching for a stupid talking point to try to defend his team who just got shredded by a qb who is great at play fakes?

maybe its naivete or dumb innocence(not something i wouldve ever thought id associate my cynical self with), but i lean towards the latter.

I agree with a previous statement that you made in that, Ryan was flailing in his comments and justifications as to why Lamar prevailed against his 49ers. However, as you also mentioned before; that was a very poor choice of words that was his flaw. One in which I believe he is regretful for making. But, that doesn't allow what was said to be swept under the rug and written off as innocent and harmless. I never said that he was a pure, full-blown racist or bigot but that type and line of thinking; "DARK SKIN" etc., comes from systemic racist ideologies that have been perpetuated about my community down through the years. That history lesson! Lol!

It's unfortunate cause as you mentioned here, Lamar is just flat out ballin in his 2nd year and shredding defenses like a hot knife through butter. Just say the man is balling, the weather conditions were not the best in Baltimore and it was hard to see the ball during Lamar's fakes because he does them so well. That should have been it! Not the "DARK SKIN" statement cause once you go there, as a radio host, that speaks and uses words for a living and has a huge audience-that's the point of no return!

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree with a previous statement that you made in that, Ryan was flailing in his comments and justifications as to why Lamar prevailed against his 49ers. However, as you also mentioned before; that was a very poor choice of words that was his flaw. One in which I believe he is regretful for making. But, that doesn't allow what was said to be swept under the rug and written off as innocent and harmless. I never said that he was a pure, full-blown racist or bigot but that type and line of thinking; "DARK SKIN," "dark football," "dark jersey" comes from systemic racist ideologies that have been perpetuated about my community down through the years. That history lesson! Lol!

It's unfortunate cause as you mentioned here, Lamar is just flat out ballin in his 2nd year and shredding defenses like a hot knife through butter. Just say the man is balling, the weather conditions were not the best in Baltimore and it was hard to see the ball during Lamar's fakes because he does them so well. That should have been it! Not the "DARK SKIN" statement cause once you go there-that's the point of no return!

so essentially i see it differently because i dont see it from the point of view of a black man who has experienced bigotry over the years, and where you see inherent biases coming to light, i see an idiot making idiotic statements lol.

i can respect that.

 

[Militant X 1]

so essentially i see it differently because i dont see it from the point of view of a black man who has experienced bigotry over the years, and where you see inherent biases coming to light, i see an idiot making idiotic statements lol.

i can respect that.

All of that is based upon the differences in our context. Excellent point my friend!

 

[RavensMania]

It had nothing to do with his kneeling. Good black QB play and that type of offense was going on well before that.

we need to eliminate color bias and not only in QB play, but in this thread we will stick to QB play.

 

[Tank]

Those so-called, "history lessons on racism" are critical in discussions of this magnitude (especially between blacks and whites) because without knowing and acknowledging where these racist and bigoted ideologies originated and why they continue to be perpetuated throughout our society; we can and never will "take a more positive view and move forward for things to improve" as you mentioned. The only thing non-productive in my view is trying to avoid the ugliness of the historical truths about the systemic racism that shapes one's ideologies and harmful stereotypes. That must be traced, faced and then it can be erased!

I’m with ya’ Mili, so let’s keep erasing!