because our defence last year was great...
and also because the weather was awful - which is why we only scored 3 points
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Lamar Jackson
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because our defence last year was great...
and also because the weather was awful - which is why we only scored 3 points
BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
I just don’t see how that’s possible unless we strike gold in the draft. Stanley, through no fault of his own, has really set us back with his injury. The injury just days after the deal, uncertainty with three surgeries in a year, and no way to save cap hits with out an extension. We took our shot and it back fired so far. Looking at our limited cap space, not sure there’s a way to fix this line anytime soon outside of a draft miracle.
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I think a lot of people just want counting stats, honestly.
As a passer, Lamar was ahead of his 2019 season pre-Miami. He was a better deep ball passer and was excellent in his delivery and touch. It certainly broke down as the season wore on, but the offensive line was a carousel.
The one big difference between 2019 and 2021 was that Lamar crushed the blitz in 2019 and didn't in 2021, but the offensive line was also miles better in 2019.
I'm still incredibly frustrated because as soon as Yanda announced his retirement, I opined that it would be the biggest loss the Ravens would have for a long time and that the Ravens needed to begin game planning to restock the line. Sadly, they've done little to offset the loss of Yanda and trading away Brown.
Ellicottraven
Ravens Ring of Honor
If Lamar is protected, he'll keep carving defenses. Once he does that, the run game will explode to its 2019 levels.
we thought we could get away without a blue chip talent in the centre of the offence - that 2019 OL had 2 all-pros and a pro bowler
2 of those guys are not on the team anymore and Stanley's been injured but even with Stanley it's not enough - Zeitler's a nice guy to have at RG but we need another HQ player on the OL
it's tough because I want so much to be able to spend 1st round capital on both trenches but we're going to have to pick one
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obviously would have to be the draft - i dont see why that's so wild of an idea... we havent taken an OL in the first 2 rounds since Stanley in 2016 and before that it was KO in 2012 and Oher in 2009
same issue we used to have at WR - if you don't invest draft capital it's tough to find high quality pieces - we've been lucky that we've been great at finding average or better than average starters in mid-to-later rounds and even 1 or 2 highly talented guys like Ryan Jensen and Orlando Brown but the vast majority of good OLs in the NFL have multiple high picks and investment in the OL - if we want it we have to invest the capital to make it happen
BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
It’s an issue because your looking at replacing/ upgrading Bozeman, AV, and possibly Stanley if he has another set back. You can certainly find bodies in the draft, but quality starters? Maybe one in a given draft and then Hope others develop. Free agency is likely out of the question. I think Ravens fans should settle into the idea that Lamar will likely be playing behind a shit Oline in 2022, and if EDC doesn’t crush the draft, again in 2023.
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Charm City
Pro Bowler
Have we even been that good at finding mid-late round OL players? In our past few drafts we've taken:
Cleveland (3)
Tyre (3)
Bredeson (4)
Ben Powers (4)
OBJ (3)
Greg Senat (6)
Bozeman (6)
Siragusa (4)
Eleumunor (5)
Alex Lewis (4)
Thats a lot of capital to only have gotten OBJ and Bozeman, albeit Cleveland is too soon to tell and Tyre gets injured twice a year. I'm not saying that we shouldn't invest all these picks in the line because its 100% necessary, but if we invested a couple earlier picks and gotten higher quality players it could have prevented us from taking so many fliers on guys later in the draft.
we've consistently found starters who've gone on to start significant numbers of games:
Rick Wagner
Ryan Jensen
Alex Lewis
Jermaine Eluemunor
Orlando
Bozeman
Powers
all 7 of those guys who were drafted in the last decade have played significant numbers of games as a starter for us (and other teams afterwards) - 2 of them got big 2nd contracts and 2 more are likely to get big 2nd contracts this year
interesting note that the 4 biggest successes came from 2 draft classes - 2013 we got wagner and jensen and 2018 we got orlando and bozeman
i also think it's highly likely that one of tyre and cleveland is going to start significant games for us especially if the ravens stop fannying around with Tyre at tackle
but it's certainly worth acknowledging that it's rare you can find "blue-chip" guys in these late rounds at the position - we've done well to find 2 pro-bowl/all-pro players in the last decade in the mid-to-late rounds with Jensen and Orlando... definitely going to be easier to add great talents by drafting earlier
you can definitely find quality starters in the draft especially when you draft early - most teams expect their 1st and 2nd round picks to contribute immediately - why's it difficult to imagine the ravens taking an offensive lineman in the 1st or 2nd round and expecting them to improve the OL?
the ravens have the bare bones of a pretty good OL health-willing - and obviously health is a question mark but that's also why you add talent in the draft to create depth where we have injury questions like at tackle - we've just extended Mekari who we know can be a solid swing tackle so we're probably 1 tackle away from being certain we won't be playing also-rans at tackle at least to start the season
center is a question for sure but it's not the end of the world and there's more non-draft options at C than at OT
an OL of Stanley-Phillips/Cleveland-Colon-Zeitler-James with Mekari as swing tackle would be fine and it's highly likely we're going to add a high draft pick at either C or OT and then you're looking at a pretty decent looking OL
no reason to think that the 2022 OL should suck at all beyond general pessimism about injury recoveries
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
We're usually very aligned, but I gotta be honest, I'm nervous about this one. Stanley and James are HUGE question marks. All that means is that things could go really well for us on that front, or maybe it could be really bad, or most like something in between.
This is just my guess. Stanley comes back and plays well, just not at the elite level we've seen. That should be an upgrade over this year.
LG will likely be neutral to slightly improved. You're still gonna have either Powers, Clevland, or Tyree at that spot. Personally I think Powers is out, and Clevland wins the job because at this point I think the team believes that he has the higher upside at this point. Unless Clevland takes a big step forward, this is mostly neutral.
Center. This is likely a pretty strong drop-off. Colon is probably a NFL quality player but likely in the bottom tier of starters. This is pretty scary.
RG is Zeitler. You would hope to get a similarly productive year out of him. So neutral but in a good way.
RT James or Mekari. One of these two should be serviceable, but very unlikely to have extremely high level of play. Seems like this is going to be mostly neutral to slight improvement.
As I see it, you're gonna be looking at something like this.
Improvement
Neutral
Big dropoff
Neutral
Neutral
Too me, it just seems like the OL is gonna be relatively similar to this year and the depth situation is going to be critical. I'm honestly not expecting a top 10 OL. Maybe top 16.
i think there's different levels - we dont see this completely dissimilarly - and a middling OL with competent tackle play is a massive upgrade over what we played with last year - i think you underestimate just how bad villanueva was (and powers was not massively far behind either)
but Villanueva was probably the worst starting tackle in the NFL this year - Ronnie Stanley coming back to even just 60-70% of his level the last time we saw him would be not just an improvement but a massive improvement and especially in pass protection
i think it's likely there's an improvement from powers to whoever starts this year but you're right it's likely mostly a wash but worth pointing out that powers was a better run blocker than pass protector and the 2 guys who would replace him are superior pass protectors to him
colon is a dropoff from bozeman but he's also fine which means that while it's a dropoff it's manageable within the unit as a whole
and obviously we agree on the other 2 spots
you add a talented high pick to that unit and you've got the ability to turn the unit around
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I think your point about Stanley is well taken over AV. Additionally, the last point about adding one really blue chip guy could go a long way
Naw guarantee we will have a better oline next season. At least 2 new starters. AV def wont be there
not having AV is like having two new starters. AV was just that bad and if Stanley comes back he improves his neighbor (LG) as well.
I'm of the mindset that it must be the offensive line.
Defense is obviously a need and important, but at the end of the day, Lamar is the one winning you games. He's the one you're investing the mega millions into. Protect and build around your investment.
if you look at the elite lines (which we wont be able to compete with) like the Bucs, Saints and Browns - they have talent across all 5 spots on the OL and 2-3 elite players - that's unattainable for us right now
the good OLs normally find themselves with only 1 or maybe 2 weak links if the 2 weak links are not next to each other and have a couple of blue-chip players
most solid OLs have to have 2 blue-chip talents on the line or else mostly solid OL play from 4 of the starters
the ravens are probably only 1 player away from being solid - either by adding a blue-chip talent to go with Ronnie or by finding steady answers at LG, C and RT - RT likely gets steady play from one of mekari and James or a high draft pick, LG has the chance of finding decent play between Tyre and Cleveland who both have the talent to be much better than LG was in 2021 which leaves C
assuming we don't resign we bozeman we do need to do something about C but in my view it's less important than finding one talented OL from the draft because finding a high quality OL can be genuinely transformational to your OL outcomes especially in pass pro
if we went after Linderbaum then that would be cool (albeit i wouldnt feel like he's the best fit) - you'd be able to expect immediately serviceable pass pro from 4/5 spots from the OL
if we went after one of the top tackles and hit then that similarly could be transformational in that we'd have our bookends sorted and be able to make Ja'wuan james our swing tackle and mekari can be a 5 position backup - there's a ton of value additionally there too
for sure philosophically im all in on OL - idk that it has to be the 1st round especially as i think the 2 i'd want in Ekwonu and Neal are going in and around the top 5 whereas i think there's a chance someone outrageous on the DL or at EDGE might be in reach
if we do go defence in round 1, i think you can basically pencil us in for a need pick at 45 on the OL
Dealing with borrow, pat, allen and herbert we will need some athletic guys on the dline instead of our big normal slow run stuffers.. sad part is that both oline and dline is a big need
it is a shame we need both of them and I'd be good with either one of them. BPA for either trench is fine with me. I believe providing some inside pressure with Jordan Davis and Madubuike on the inside, while having Oweh on the edge would be a really nice start. Can't do it all in one season. Then pick up an OL in the 2nd round. That's how I feel about it right now, but the more tape I watch I could change my mind.
Now if Walker or Karlaftis are available at 14, I may change my mind.