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Lamar Jackson

QtR Nevermore said:
Flacco himself wanted the brace because he didn't feel confident in his knee. It wasn't medically necessary, as I recall.

If the doctor's are saying Lamar could play with a brace, that means he's not fully healthy, so I don't think it's fair of Harbaugh to air that publicly just because he knows a 70% Lamar would be better than Huntley.
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Flacco's knee was toasted, torn ACL and MCL, a much different scenario than a sprained PCL no surgery. Truth be known Flacco probably came back too quickly even with a brace.
 
I don't think Lamar is holding out at all. Lamar didn't hold out this season. Lamar is on the sidelines coaching up snoop. Lamar wants to play.

He just got his fucking PCL rocked. I told everyone before Harbs made his first announcement we'll be seeing Lamar vs the Bengals. It's just not practical to think someone is going to recover from a level 2 PCL injury in less than a month. This weekend will represent 5 weeks. He may go he may not.

We blew our chance at the division because the whole team played badly vs a bad Pittsburgh team and lost. No division crown here so give Lamar more rest.

Think about it. You're the Ravens. You're gonna try and sign this guy long term after the season. The LAST thing you want is for him to go out there too early, get a gruesome knee injury because he wasn't fully ready. Now Lamar is out the whole year next year. Bad bad bad
 
My problem with all of this discussion, yet again...

is that people are having entire discussions about whether it's right for lamar to sit-out or for the coaches to be frustrated, or for fans to be frustrated etc. etc. etc.

entirely based on things that have not been said

unless i've missed something - it has never been indicated that Lamar could play with a brace, it has not therefore been indicated that Harbs or the coaches are frustrated with lamar or his rehab or his willingness to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want a long-term deal

i get that a lack of information causes people to fill in gaps with thoughts and prognostications - and that everyone's in doom and gloom mode because lamar's still not practicing (which means we know absolutely nothing about his status)

but we've got whole threads getting derailed by these discussions that are not based in anything except pure fantasy and i find it infuriating to read every single week
 
Tank said:
Missing here is the fact he is under contract to play football.
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To play football when healthy.

And if he is fit, I believe he will play. I don't think anyone is saying that a healthy Lamar is simply refusing to play. I don't think anyone would support him, if that's what's happening.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
It's not a 'reasonable method.' If they say he could play with a brace, than he's not fully fit. In that case, the player is fully within his rights not to play.

Please don't get back to your imaginary idea that I'm demanding honesty on injuries. I've never said that.

However, it would be more honest of Harbaugh to lay out the full picture, rather than just implying that Lamar is refusing to play, if that's what you want.
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I didn't say Lamar wasn't in his right not to play. He is. John's also right to be frustrated by the fact that the medical team gives him a path to play and he declines to do so. Is that what's in the Ravens best interest, or is it purely in what's in Lamar's best interest?

I also find this "I support Lamar in not playing" stance a little hypocritical by some. I don't remember the same stances for Pierce, or Dobbins, or Stanley last year, or Bateman this year. I remember fans being frustrated that they wouldn't recover from injuries quick enough, and being mad that they wouldn't play. Yet, by several of those accounts, those players could have played. They just would have been less effective. They opted for surgery so that they could heal. Don't recall seeing much praise for the fanbase from those decisions.

And in fact, I remember specifically that John said both Bateman and Pierce had "choices to make" in regards to their health. While I don't know specifically what that means, it implies that season-ending surgery may not have been the only option. Yet its the option they chose.

They're not wrong for choosing it. Teams also not wrong for being frustrated with the choice. Same principle here.

The REAL difference is how biased people are either towards or against Lamar.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Well and IF it's true that the team thinks Lamar could practice/play with a brace on (and I have no idea if that's true or not), and Lamar is declining to do so because he feels it limits him or just doesn't like it, I think John has every right to be frustrated by it.

But that's just the reality of the situation. Lamar's job is to come back when he's ready and feels he's healthy enough to play at a high level. John's job is to win the next game he plays and put a team out there that's in the best spot to do that. And he may rightfully think Lamar with a brace on his better than Huntley.
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Yeah and I think Harbaugh is frustrated because winning the next game and beyond has a lot to do with whether Lamar is going to play, or not. And he knows he has little control over the situation. But as you suggest, it is what it is.
 
rossihunter2 said:
My problem with all of this discussion, yet again...

is that people are having entire discussions about whether it's right for lamar to sit-out or for the coaches to be frustrated, or for fans to be frustrated etc. etc. etc.

entirely based on things that have not been said

unless i've missed something - it has never been indicated that Lamar could play with a brace, it has not therefore been indicated that Harbs or the coaches are frustrated with lamar or his rehab or his willingness to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want a long-term deal

i get that a lack of information causes people to fill in gaps with thoughts and prognostications - and that everyone's in doom and gloom mode because lamar's still not practicing (which means we know absolutely nothing about his status)

but we've got whole threads getting derailed by these discussions that are not based in anything except pure fantasy and i find it infuriating to read every single week
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Yeah this whole thing is people filling in the blanks with their own theories. We don't know a god damn thing about this injury or his progress or any of that. It sucks but it is what it is.
 
rossihunter2 said:
My problem with all of this discussion, yet again...

is that people are having entire discussions about whether it's right for lamar to sit-out or for the coaches to be frustrated, or for fans to be frustrated etc. etc. etc.

entirely based on things that have not been said

unless i've missed something - it has never been indicated that Lamar could play with a brace, it has not therefore been indicated that Harbs or the coaches are frustrated with lamar or his rehab or his willingness to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want to play, it has not therefore been indicated that lamar doesnt want a long-term deal

i get that a lack of information causes people to fill in gaps with thoughts and prognostications - and that everyone's in doom and gloom mode because lamar's still not practicing (which means we know absolutely nothing about his status)

but we've got whole threads getting derailed by these discussions that are not based in anything except pure fantasy and i find it infuriating to read every single week
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The "brace discussion" I believe I read came from Rich Eisen, which he sourced to people he knew within the organization. No different than people who ran with the 1-3 week timetable, which many people on here (and everywhere) did. That didn't come from anybody with actual info on the injury, and certainly didn't come from the organization.

If you're expecting said info to come from the Ravens, it 99% never would. So if the only info we should ever take comes from them, then nobody ever knows anything and nobody should discuss any injury situations at all.

And I'm actually OK with that. I bet there's a lot of people that think differently, though.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
To play football when healthy.

And if he is fit, I believe he will play. I don't think anyone is saying that a healthy Lamar is simply refusing to play. I don't think anyone would support him, if that's what's happening.
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Well "healthy" is also relative. On any given gameday, there's probably 10 players on your roster who are "healthy". The rest of them are injured and have been for weeks. It's just a question of whether that injury is sufficient to prevent them from playing well enough to play.

There's a reason why like the first week after the regular season ends you see a long, long, long list of guys scheduling surgeries for injuries the public either didn't know existed, or never stopped those players from playing.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I didn't say Lamar wasn't in his right not to play. He is. John's also right to be frustrated by the fact that the medical team gives him a path to play and he declines to do so. Is that what's in the Ravens best interest, or is it purely in what's in Lamar's best interest?

I also find this "I support Lamar in not playing" stance a little hypocritical by some. I don't remember the same stances for Pierce, or Dobbins, or Stanley last year, or Bateman this year. I remember fans being frustrated that they wouldn't recover from injuries quick enough, and being mad that they wouldn't play. Yet, by several of those accounts, those players could have played. They just would have been less effective. They opted for surgery so that they could heal. Don't recall seeing much praise for the fanbase from those decisions.

And in fact, I remember specifically that John said both Bateman and Pierce had "choices to make" in regards to their health. While I don't know specifically what that means, it implies that season-ending surgery may not have been the only option. Yet its the option they chose.

They're not wrong for choosing it. Teams also not wrong for being frustrated with the choice. Same principle here.

The REAL difference is how biased people are either towards or against Lamar.
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There's a lot here to disagree with but I'll just say that I don't think Harbaugh should be airing his frustration with players for making choices about their health that they are fully entitled to make.
 
QtR Nevermore said:
There's a lot here to disagree with but I'll just say that I don't think Harbaugh should be airing his frustration with players for making choices about their health that they are fully entitled to make.
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I don't think he should either. I also don't think players should be airing their frustration with the lack of a contract extension that they're directly involved in the choice to not have one.
But that's just kind of how the NFL works in these situations.

As I said earlier, either you want honesty or you don't. Either you want transparency on injuries or you don't. It's not selective based on personal feelings.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I didn't say Lamar wasn't in his right not to play. He is. John's also right to be frustrated by the fact that the medical team gives him a path to play and he declines to do so. Is that what's in the Ravens best interest, or is it purely in what's in Lamar's best interest?

I also find this "I support Lamar in not playing" stance a little hypocritical by some. I don't remember the same stances for Pierce, or Dobbins, or Stanley last year, or Bateman this year. I remember fans being frustrated that they wouldn't recover from injuries quick enough, and being mad that they wouldn't play. Yet, by several of those accounts, those players could have played. They just would have been less effective. They opted for surgery so that they could heal. Don't recall seeing much praise for the fanbase from those decisions.

And in fact, I remember specifically that John said both Bateman and Pierce had "choices to make" in regards to their health. While I don't know specifically what that means, it implies that season-ending surgery may not have been the only option. Yet its the option they chose.

They're not wrong for choosing it. Teams also not wrong for being frustrated with the choice. Same principle here.

The REAL difference is how biased people are either towards or against Lamar.
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the same people who are pissed about lamar not playing are the same people who are pissed about stanley not playing lol

that's not a gotcha
 
Simba said:
Yeah this whole thing is people filling in the blanks with their own theories. We don't know a god damn thing about this injury or his progress or any of that. It sucks but it is what it is.
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which is fine - people can theorise however they want

what's frustrating me is people seeing those theories, taking them as fact and then losing their shit over those "fill in the gaps" theories

makes the entire discussion worthless
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Well "healthy" is also relative. On any given gameday, there's probably 10 players on your roster who are "healthy". The rest of them are injured and have been for weeks. It's just a question of whether that injury is sufficient to prevent them from playing well enough to play.

There's a reason why like the first week after the regular season ends you see a long, long, long list of guys scheduling surgeries for injuries the public either didn't know existed, or never stopped those players from playing.
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Football is a rough sport. I am almost always injured, just not severely.
 
rossihunter2 said:
the same people who are pissed about lamar not playing are the same people who are pissed about stanley not playing lol

that's not a gotcha
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You sure its the same people though? Because I'm pretty sure I can find a couple on here who spend two years bashing Stanley and predicting he'd never play again, who are pretty content with taking the "pro-Lamar" position on this.
 
Doesn't help that our fan base has become much more insufferable since the 2019 season. Brought in a lot of the younger fans that just use social media to pump their own theories, and somehow people are still falling for that stuff. How many people said Ronnie Stanley was going to retire/never be able to play again? This isn't that different. People frustrated with a lack of information fill in gaps with their own thoughts and people fall into the trap.
 
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