Lamar Jackson

[Oldfaithful]

The thing with Jackson was that we needed baby steps. He's come a long way since January, which is huge. The thing is that his ceiling is through the roof, but the encouraging thing is that with the effort he's put in, his floor should be okay as well. A certain member on here notorious for BS rhetoric called him an "accident waiting to happen"... He's a rookie. Peyton Manning by that logic would have been declared a bust his rookie year. He looks a hell of a lot better than Josh Allen. Hell, he flashes abilities to be better than Darnold too.

He still needs work, but with how far the guy has come, there's an immense amount of promise. What he needs to work on more than absolutely anything is that deep ball accuracy. He develops a semi-accurate deep ball, and he won't just be good, he'll be unstoppable. His pocket presence is already very good, he's relatively accurate from a 10-25 yard range who can hit a WR in stride on a consistent basis. If he develops the ability to throw deep semi-consistently, he's literally going to be impossible to game plan for because the safeties are going to have to come down to respect his rushing abilities anyways, but if you do that and he goes play action, you're done. Lamar's arm is a cannon and with a deep threat like John Brown(and this is why I want to resign him) and a TE like Hurst who has the athleticism to consistently stretch the field the offense could be borderline impossible to stop from two TE sets. Because then if the safety goes back to respect Lamar's arm, then Lamar and whatever RB we have next year are going to kill you on the ground too.

He's a lot better than a lot of people give him credit for. He's not the best rookie QB out there, but he's probably third. Mayfield is obviously the best right now, and Rosen is clearly in another Jared Goff situation where he has a stud RB behind him but no defense or offensive line.

Lamar has shown a ton of both progress and promise. I do think drafting a better backup who's more of a pure pocket passer ala Redskins in 2012 is a good move though. But honestly, he keeps it up, he should be able to surpass Flacco as the best QB the Ravens have ever had.. Sorry @Tank

 

[Tank]

The thing with Jackson was that we needed baby steps. He's come a long way since January, which is huge. The thing is that his ceiling is through the roof, but the encouraging thing is that with the effort he's put in, his floor should be okay as well. A certain member on here notorious for BS rhetoric called him an "accident waiting to happen"... He's a rookie. Peyton Manning by that logic would have been declared a bust his rookie year. He looks a hell of a lot better than Josh Allen. Hell, he flashes abilities to be better than Darnold too.

He still needs work, but with how far the guy has come, there's an immense amount of promise. What he needs to work on more than absolutely anything is that deep ball accuracy. He develops a semi-accurate deep ball, and he won't just be good, he'll be unstoppable. His pocket presence is already very good, he's relatively accurate from a 10-25 yard range who can hit a WR in stride on a consistent basis. If he develops the ability to throw deep semi-consistently, he's literally going to be impossible to game plan for because the safeties are going to have to come down to respect his rushing abilities anyways, but if you do that and he goes play action, you're done. Lamar's arm is a cannon and with a deep threat like John Brown(and this is why I want to resign him) and a TE like Hurst who has the athleticism to consistently stretch the field the offense could be borderline impossible to stop from two TE sets. Because then if the safety goes back to respect Lamar's arm, then Lamar and whatever RB we have next year are going to kill you on the ground too.

He's a lot better than a lot of people give him credit for. He's not the best rookie QB out there, but he's probably third. Mayfield is obviously the best right now, and Rosen is clearly in another Jared Goff situation where he has a stud RB behind him but no defense or offensive line.

Lamar has shown a ton of both progress and promise. I do think drafting a better backup who's more of a pure pocket passer ala Redskins in 2012 is a good move though. But honestly, he keeps it up, he should be able to surpass Flacco as the best QB the Ravens have ever had.. Sorry @Tank

I’m confused as to why you are sorry as that would mean we would win multiple SBs in the coming years. Why would I not want that to happen? It’s old and way beyond stale, please stop.

 

[Oldfaithful]

I’m confused as to why you are sorry as that would mean we would win multiple SBs in the coming years. Why would I not want that to happen? It’s old and way beyond stale, please stop.

Just some good fun lol. I actually think that them calling you a moron is a bit over the line. Very over the line.


Especially since you're all wrong. Woodrum is the future.

 

[Tank]

Just some good fun lol. I actually think that them calling you a moron is a bit over the line. Very over the line.


Especially since you're all wrong. Woodrum is the future.

Go pound sand. lol

 

[Oldfaithful]

Go pound sand. lol

My lord and savior Woodrum will save me. Unlike you losers with Flacco and Jackson

 

[Oldfaithful]

But pertaining to the actual topic.

Lamar's mechanics still need some work on the outward to intermediate routes. He also needs to learn how to recognize mismatches better and exploit them.

He's not going to be Aaron Rodgers of Tom Brady but the potential is clearly there for him to grow into a SB caliber QB.

But I don't want to take that risk with the coaching staff. Get rid of M#### and please institute Roman to run the offense.
Honestly... Lamar is way less raw than Kaepernick was coming out of school... And frankly I'd argue he's better than Kaepernick ever was. He's not as good as Tyrod was for the Bills, especially as a passer(Tyrod had a long time to learn), but it's not like he's miles behind either.

Lamar is more similar to Flacco than some of you think *entire fanbase gets triggered*. He heavily favors his TEs and RBs out of the backfield, he's good at throwing on the run, his pocket presence(at least in Flacco's prime it was solid), and he has a massive barrage of colossal dickriders that will praise him even when he fucks up. Roman is kind of perfect for that and has plenty of experience running the read option. There's a few observations I do have.

1. Hayden Hurst needs to be involved in the passing game far more than he is. "But Ridley should have been the first pick". Stop living in the past. Hurst is a good fit for the direction the team needs to go in. Running lots of read option is going to place a massive emphasis on two TE sets and a Lamar lead team would HEAVLY benefit from running a lot of I formations. Hurst can run out of the FB position like Maxx.He can play inline, he can play slot. Aka, he's a young QBs best friend. His ceiling is through the rough and we continue to not utilize him anywhere close to correctly because.. M$$$$. Read option plays in the red zone with Hurst and Andrews on the field at the same time in a multitude of ways is a competent OCs wet dream. Sean McVay would have a hard on thinking about that if he could get Gurley in that kind of situation. I think we know what we have in Andrews, he's the Hulk. Time to unleash Thor.

2. John Brown needs to be resigned. Brown is the perfect deep threat for Lamar. He goes over the middle, is a great route runner, good after the catch, he's reliable, and he's got blazing speed to take the top off of a defense. He's a borderline #1 WR talent with a QB like Jackson if Lamar ever reaches his full potential.

3. Likewise, it is essential to have a guy like Willie Snead locked up. As far as slot WRs go, he's one of the better ones in the league. He gets open on third downs like it's nobody's business. If you combine that with two hulk TEs and a guy who can take the top off, then he's basically going to be open half of the time anyways.

4. Get....a....real....fucking....center. No more Skura. All I ask. That fumble today was a direct result of sloppiness for Skura as a blocker. Lewis is passable, but the interior needs an upgrade across the board.

5. Ty Montgomery needs to be resigned. He's the perfect third down back for Lamar. Fast, deceptively powerful, money hands, good route runner and can line up out wide.

6. Find another power back... Gus Edwards is not a long term starter.. At least not an elite one. Benny Snell and LJ Scott in particularly are tailor made for this offense. Gus could be a #2, and I think a pretty good one. But LJ Scott is the type of weapon that puts this team over the top.

7. Draft a backup QB high.. Say what you will but the Redskins were smart about this. If Clayton Thorson for some ungodly reason falls to the third... You draft him. Lamar is mobile and those guys have a tendency to get hurt, with there obviously being exceptions. I think Lamar is a smarter football player than RGIII was given how adaptable he has proven to be... But Thorson to me looks like a franchise QB. Not taking him would be a crime. Worst case is that you flip him for something later.

Notice how I didn't put WR yet... I think the WR class, much like 2017 is massively overrated. There's a couple of big names that are fine, but with a young QB building the trenches first is essential.


But none of this matters. WOODRUM FOR QB

 

[Tru11]

I'm really not seeing nearly as many haters as much as people complaining about haters.

People are tired of the flacco fans speaking negatively about pretty much anything except flacco.

I mean people have been defending his shitty mechanics for 11 freaking years , yet are the first in line to bash Lamar for the same after his first 3 games as the starting QB......

 

[rossihunter2]

This man started 3 games and peoples patience is wearing thin. Flacco has sucked for the better part of 5 years and others didn't get the frustration and are now trying to equate it. The hypocrisy is super real. God forbid fans have hope for their rookie QB and want him to stay in and grow. And holy shit, the bastard has the nerve to win games while doing it. Na put in the other guy who gave our team absolutely no identity on offense cause of nostalgia.

Besides the fact he doesn't seem to improve our offense that much, have you realized that if the ravens want to trade Flacco, playing him might only hurt his trade value?

Ill just put this out there:

rookie qb wins this season:

Baker Mayfield: 4
Sam Darnold: 3
Josh Allen: 3
Josh Rosen: 3
Lamar Jackson: 3

jackson has come in and done an incredible job and is getting way more shit than literally any of the other rookie qbs

 

[RavensMania]

Thank you! Their struggles aren't our problem and we don't create our schedules. You already KNOW what Herm said.

This is very true and we play the same teams as our division rivals, except for two teams.

 

[RavensMania]

Just some good fun lol. I actually think that them calling you a moron is a bit over the line. Very over the line.


Especially since you're all wrong. Woodrum is the future.

My lord and savior Woodrum will save me. Unlike you losers with Flacco and Jackson

The Woodrum bit is a little old

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

The Woodrum bit is a little old

We all know that Koch is the true GOAT.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

The thing that gets me is that Jackson isn't playing well at this point. The Ravens aren't really opening up the playbook a ton, he's got some inaccurate passes due to the awkward sidearm, some chemistry mis-timings, and some issues with pocket awareness.

BUT

If we look at Allen, Rosen, Darnold, they are also struggling. Joe Flacco struggled in his rookie season. Yes, every once in a while you get a Watson or a Mayfield that really light it up, but you're far more likely to get a Wentz, Goff, Rosen, etc. And that's okay.

I like that Jackson looks like he's making mental notes of all the poor throws, reads, adjustments, etc. and it looks like he's working on them.

 

[Oldfaithful]

We all know that Koch is the true GOAT.

I mean Tucker's been carrying the team for years.... Koch needs to pick up his fair share

 

[rossihunter2]

The thing that gets me is that Jackson isn't playing well at this point. The Ravens aren't really opening up the playbook a ton, he's got some inaccurate passes due to the awkward sidearm, some chemistry mis-timings, and some issues with pocket awareness.

BUT

If we look at Allen, Rosen, Darnold, they are also struggling. Joe Flacco struggled in his rookie season. Yes, every once in a while you get a Watson or a Mayfield that really light it up, but you're far more likely to get a Wentz, Goff, Rosen, etc. And that's okay.

I like that Jackson looks like he's making mental notes of all the poor throws, reads, adjustments, etc. and it looks like he's working on them.

i mean baker's doing great a lot but he's also having games where he looks like a struggling rookie too
and deshaun watson had a crazy breakout couple of games before his injury in his rookie year but looked unsure before that and then took a while to get back into form this year

 

[3-4ravdef509]

This man started 3 games and peoples patience is wearing thin. Flacco has sucked for the better part of 5 years and others didn't get the frustration and are now trying to equate it. The hypocrisy is super real. God forbid fans have hope for their rookie QB and want him to stay in and grow. And holy shit, the bastard has the nerve to win games while doing it. Na put in the other guy who gave our team absolutely no identity on offense cause of nostalgia.

Besides the fact he doesn't seem to improve our offense that much, have you realized that if the ravens want to trade Flacco, playing him might only hurt his trade value?

So here’s how I see it.

We saw 7 years in a row that Flacco was a capable quarterback who helped the team make the playoffs all but one year which was a post Super Bowl rebuilding year. He wasn’t flashy but he was for most of that time put into a run first offense and defense oriented team. And he showed ability to perform in the clutch and elevate his play for small stretches at a time.

He won a Super Bowl by throwing 11 TD and 0 INT against 4 really good teams. In 2014 we would have at least had a Super Bowl appearance if we would have had like one healthy starting cornerback.

2015-2017 were three frustrating years but I really don’t see how Flacco is to blame. 2015 was a bust because of Trestman being garbage and injuries on offense, culminating with Flacco getting hurt and missing half the season. 2016 was Joe working back from that injury coupled with a mid season coordinator change from one shitty OC to a mediocre one. Barely missed the playoffs. 2017 Joe had another injury but the second half of the season our offense actually was top in the league.

This year we started off hot but the lack of a running game and injuries on the offensive line caught up to us, and Marty isn’t the best OC still I’d like to point out.

So, actually in my view the biggest reason to move on from Joe is actually that for three years now he’s been dealing with injuries and he isn’t getting younger. That alone makes me open to a change.

But plenty of posters here aren’t ready to just kick Joe to the curb so quickly. We’re bitter over the short hand Joe has been dealt for the past 4 years but still know injuries and age are a factor and even Joe at his best wasn’t much better than a top 10 - 15 qb. But instead of being allowed to share opinions, many of the regular posters who aren’t just swiftly moving on from Joe to Lamar just get ridiculed and laughed at best case scenario or outright insulted in some cases.

So like I keep saying, maybe it’s time to move on from Joe. But the reason why 3 games has some of us impatient and why for 4 years we were patient with flacco is because of calm, rational and objective analysis of all contributing factors and having a very solid 7 year history of Joe being a very good quarterback with a ton of wins in high pressure and playoff scenariois. Easy to be patient when you have that history.

It’s harder to be patient with Lamar because football history is remiss with Mobile qbs who fail due to injury or just never becoming great passers. We are not happy because we seem to be casually kicking Joe to the curb as a scapegoat for the teams failures and we don’t like the replacement. If the replacement was like Mohomes, well I’d be thrilled. So far though he seems like a poor mans young RG3 , with better running ability but worse throwing accuracy

 

[Militant X 1]

Doesn’t mean I’m impressed by it. If the running game and defense play the same in all three games I don’t see how Joe wouldn’t also have helped us win

He might get better.
He might not.
He might get injured running around the way he does.

That third one is more likely than the first two.

Listen this is hardly about Flacco anymore. If it’s time to move on from Flacco, fine. I don’t have to brown nose the next quarterback playing after Joe.

Tell the truth man! To you...THIS IS ABOUT FLACCO! Lol!

You just mentioned that it's not about him but AFTER you said: "I don't see how Joe wouldn't also have helped us win."

The Ravens are 3-0 with Flacco's ass sitting on the pine! The entire team has a fresh energy and vibe to them since Lamar has been at the helm. Lamar is a "ROOKIE" so, it is to be expected that he'd make a lot of "ROOKIE" mistakes (i.e. inaccurate passes, poor decision making etc.) in his starts. But the reality is that Flacco STILL makes "ROOKIE" mistakes after 11 damn seasons.

I believe there will be a time when Lamar will "have to" demonstrate his passing abilities in order to keep us relevant. And, I also believe that he'll be able to do so when that time comes. But as for now, the gameplan for him against the last 3 so-called, "bottom-feeders" have worked to perfection so enjoy the fact that the Ravens are the #6 seed in the AFC playoff race at 7-5 instead of their being out of it at 4-8.

 

[3-4ravdef509]

No one was bashing Joe when he first started because was preceded him was trash and Joe showed he could throw the ball. Now everyone is enthralled with the Mobile qbs and “the league is shifting”. Maybe I’m just too old and traditional but sorry, I don’t see the transition. I see some qbs who are able to extend plays with their feet but for the most part excell in pocket passing. Also I like Mahomes but let’s not ignore that he’s playing with an offense that makes the best defenses look pedestrian. Same with some of the other young qbs who look really good right now. Which is great, but you know we could have also spent the past 4-5 years building a top flight offense around Joe and instead built a “good” defense. I say good with quotations because for the investments put in I expect more out of it.

 

[3-4ravdef509]

Tell the truth man! To you...THIS IS ABOUT FLACCO! Lol!

You just mentioned that it's not about him but AFTER you said: "I don't see how Joe wouldn't also have helped us win."

The Ravens are 3-0 with Flacco's ass sitting on the pine! The entire team has a fresh energy and vibe to them since Lamar has been at the helm. Lamar is a "ROOKIE" so, it is to be expected that he'd make a lot of "ROOKIE" mistakes (i.e. inaccurate passes, poor decision making etc.) in his starts. But the reality is that Flacco STILL makes "ROOKIE" mistakes after 11 damn seasons.

I believe there will be a time when Lamar will "have to" demonstrate his passing abilities in order to keep us relevant. And, I also believe that he'll be able to do so when that time comes. But as for now, the gameplan for him against the last 3 so-called, "bottom-feeders" have worked to perfection so enjoy the fact that the Ravens are the #6 seed in the AFC playoff race at 7-5 instead of their being out of it at 4-8.

Again that’s false pretenses

Would we have been 4-5 with Lamar had he started week 1? Better? Worse? Don’t know. But we faced some really good teams in that stretch. I don’t think Joe starting woukdnhave resulted in losing the last three. Maybe against the Falcons.

Lamar is great in that we have a running game finally and that helps him and the defense and the TOP which is really how we’ve won the last three games. But that doesn’t mean he’s a good quarterback. I expect my quarterbacks to quarterback.

The team might be better with Lamar because against average or bad teams we can dominate with running the ball and good defense. And I’m fine with that but that’s not a testament to Lamar as a quarterback.

 

[3-4ravdef509]

@Tank have they beaten the fight out of you my man?

 

[Grim]

I’m not enjoying it. Even if Joe needs to leave, I don’t like this style of offense or Lamar’s play style. Looks ok and flashy with things like lots of running yards and TOP... we’ve beat three bottom feeder teams. I’d like to see a few drives and games where Lamar relies on his arm and mobility to throw more so than running to get things done.

I think the problem is you have multiple groups of people and based on your comments you come across as what people call a “Flacco Apologist” because it does seem like you outright dislike Lamar. I think and hope everyone here knows Lamar has a lot of learning to do. Mostly everyone says that so I don’t see your argument there outside the occasional hyperbole due to excitement.

Right now Jackson has a lot of work to do as a passer but he’s undoubtedly a dynamic offensive weapon that we frankly desperately need. Despite having a lot of work to do I and others think he can improve because of his attitude and seemingly excellent work ethic.

Can Joe bring us back to the promise land? Yep he could but hasn’t in years and Jackson is getting it done and looking good. He shouldn’t have started this year. Nobody honestly wants us to have 8 run this much but the ball control is great and he scares defenses and you can see it. He absolutely must learn to throw the football better though. If I’m worried about anything it’s that Lamar may develop and stick with bad mechanics right now.

I'm assuming at some point we'll have to reign in the running and focus him more on being a pocket passer. Cam Newton still scrambles but not at the rate we are doing with Lamar. Hopefully we can get him used to being more of a pocket passer through the offseason.

My hope is Lamar can develop and refine himself so he cleans up his game. We really need Lamar to tighten up his throws and be a more dangerous passer.