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Lamar Jackson

If there was a realistic chance to land Lamar, teams would literally give up more than the Saints gave up for Herschel Walker. It would be through the roof and still a bad deal for Baltimore.
Ehh it wouldn't be that high. Watson's recent deal was nowhere close to that, and even with the baggage associated with him, I think most NFL teams would think Watson will have a longer career than Lamar.
It'd probably be similar type deal to that.
 
Random thought: Ricky Williams would’ve been the best RB in history if he had been drafted by a team away from the drug/weed scene. Never did it in college. He gets drafted by a team like Green Bay and he would’ve been the best by a mile
not sure about best in history but a much better chance at the HOF
 
I disagree.
Fine by me. I'm just seeing no real basis for thinking any team is giving the Ravens like 10 draft picks and a bunch of players, plus giving Lamar $50M a year.

Like its fine to think his trade value would be higher than Watson's, but your valuation would be worth like 3x Watson's deal, which doesn't make any sense.
 
Fine by me. I'm just seeing no real basis for thinking any team is giving the Ravens like 10 draft picks and a bunch of players, plus giving Lamar $50M a year.

Like its fine to think his trade value would be higher than Watson's, but your valuation would be worth like 3x Watson's deal, which doesn't make any sense.

Here’s my thing. Right now. Definitely above Watson level. And I mean by far. But a year or two in and he’s still performing the way he did this last two years. Nah. His price is much lower compared to what many fans here think
 
Maybe I should start going to planet fitness..

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If there was a realistic chance to land Lamar, teams would literally give up more than the Saints gave up for Herschel Walker. It would be through the roof and still a bad deal for Baltimore.

I meant Herschel Walker actually but it wasn't the Saints. It was the Vikings, Cowboys, and Chargers all involved with the trade.

To Dallas CowboysTo Minnesota VikingsTo San Diego Chargers
  • LB Jesse Solomon
  • LB David Howard
  • CB Issiac Holt
  • DE Alex Stewart
  • Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990
  • Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990
  • Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990
  • Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Solomon)
  • Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional on cutting Howard)
  • Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Holt)
  • Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (condition met by trading away Nelson)
  • Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional on cutting Stewart)
  • RB Herschel Walker
  • Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1990
  • San Diego's 5th round pick in 1990
  • Dallas's 10th round pick in 1990
  • Dallas's 3rd round pick in 1991
...and when Dallas had those picks, they used them to fortify a team that won 3 Super Bowls. I would take that in a hot minute. Emmitt Smith, Darren Woodson... That was a haul.
 
Here’s my thing. Right now. Definitely above Watson level. And I mean by far. But a year or two in and he’s still performing the way he did this last two years. Nah. His price is much lower compared to what many fans here think
Well I look at it much more simply... Watson and Lamar would basically be equals in terms of league-wide perception, compensation, and trade value, if Watson wasn't a serial sex offender. Like either side could make an easy argument that one is better than the other. And age obviously isn't a factor with either.

So then the question is how much does that aspect devalue Watson. At this point, its hard to say. If they announce a one year suspension, it'll hurt a little, but not by much.

For Lamar, I would put it at three #1s plus some other picks, likely late day 2 or 3 picks. I wouldn't do that deal if I were the Ravens obviously, but I think that's the offers they'd get.
 
Well I look at it much more simply... Watson and Lamar would basically be equals in terms of league-wide perception, compensation, and trade value, if Watson wasn't a serial sex offender. Like either side could make an easy argument that one is better than the other. And age obviously isn't a factor with either.

So then the question is how much does that aspect devalue Watson. At this point, its hard to say. If they announce a one year suspension, it'll hurt a little, but not by much.

For Lamar, I would put it at three #1s plus some other picks, likely late day 2 or 3 picks. I wouldn't do that deal if I were the Ravens obviously, but I think that's the offers they'd get.

I think many of us overvalue our own players
 
Here’s my thing. Right now. Definitely above Watson level. And I mean by far. But a year or two in and he’s still performing the way he did this last two years. Nah. His price is much lower compared to what many fans here think

Well, I'm gonna chime in here just to have Ross tell me how I'm wrong or that it won't work. :)

I think we can sign Lamar. I want to. I agree with everyone here that he's a franchise QB; the best we've ever drafted - or the Browns lineage ever has too. Where I think we win is in offering a guaranteed contract like a Bobby Bonilla deal. We say, "Hey listen, Lamar, you're our guy. We hope we're your team. Let's do this: we're going to give you a guaranteed amount over the next 6 (7) years. It's not going to match the yearly of Mister Massage, but it will eclipse it over all. We wanna have the ability to keep a championship caliber team around you..." blah, blah, blah.

In the contract, as in baseball, after year 4 (5) there is arbitration. If he meets/exceeds performance criteria he can escalate the payday. The Ravens would have to remain vigilant in offering new deals to him to extend the life of the contract. But with a structure like that it might work.

What we can't have is his deal hamstringing the team overall. And if there is an injury and he can't be "Lamar," then there has to be a reasonable exit where he still gets paid and we aren't crippled by living up to it.

It could even be that we agree to yearly arbitration in years 1-5, but not 6-10 or vice versa. The agreement being that he remains in the top 5-8 als paid QB's in the league for the length of the contract. Be creative is all I'm saying.

And if he can't agree to any of that then send him to the Dolphins, Raiders, Skins, Texicans or whoever wants to pony up draft picks galore to get him and we'll go on without him.
 
...pay him a billion dollars over a billion years, like Bobby Bonilla got from the Mets. While he's retired, sitting on the NFL Gameday set when he's 50, he's still getting 125K from us with that cap hit on the 2054 team... something like that. It's like the 401K that keeps giving and giving and giving and bonilla-ing and bonilla-ing... ;)
:D
 
Well, I'm gonna chime in here just to have Ross tell me how I'm wrong or that it won't work. ^_^

I think we can sign Lamar. I want to. I agree with everyone here that he's a franchise QB; the best we've ever drafted - or the Browns lineage ever has too. Where I think we win is in offering a guaranteed contract like a Bobby Bonilla deal. We say, "Hey listen, Lamar, you're our guy. We hope we're your team. Let's do this: we're going to give you a guaranteed amount over the next 6 (7) years. It's not going to match the yearly of Mister Massage, but it will eclipse it over all. We wanna have the ability to keep a championship caliber team around you..." blah, blah, blah.

In the contract, as in baseball, after year 4 (5) there is arbitration. If he meets/exceeds performance criteria he can escalate the payday. The Ravens would have to remain vigilant in offering new deals to him to extend the life of the contract. But with a structure like that it might work.

What we can't have is his deal hamstringing the team overall. And if there is an injury and he can't be "Lamar," then there has to be a reasonable exit where he still gets paid and we aren't crippled by living up to it.

It could even be that we agree to yearly arbitration in years 1-5, but not 6-10 or vice versa. The agreement being that he remains in the top 5-8 als paid QB's in the league for the length of the contract. Be creative is all I'm saying.

And if he can't agree to any of that then send him to the Dolphins, Raiders, Skins, Texicans or whoever wants to pony up draft picks galore to get him and we'll go on without him.

i agree with you up to a point

the injury stuff and the exit plan and the av/yr will not fly though - no way lamar's side would accept that... not when other teams can remain competitive when paying their QBs through the nose too - i think the only way you could have got a discount (pre-Watson) was if you offered him more guaranteed money earlier in the deal for a slightly lower av/yr in total - kinda like what happened with josh allen and patrick mahomes - mahomes gets more money overall but allen gets way more money sooner and a chance to renegotiate earlier

in terms of what you're calling "arbitration" - you can definitely add in performance/cap based escalators that increase the base value of the deal at certain points in the deal via roster bonuses or option bonuses or even base salary increases based on - i think mahomes deal even has some similar mechanisms later in the deal (otherwise no way he should have signed that deal)

it's just not in lamar's interest to allow an easy out - a long-term deal with huge money doesnt have to cripple the ravens cap situation as long as bisciotti's happy to give him huge lump sums in signing bonus and future roster bonus so that we can finesse the hell out of the cap hits and backload it - there's no reason why the ravens shouldn't be the team to give him whatever he wants as long as he's amenable to how it's structured (i.e. happy to let the ravens give him a ton of money upfront)

the fully guaranteed nature of watson's contract does really throw a spanner in but as long as we expect lamar to perform to the contract we give him, it's not that big of a deal

it would genuinely be organisational mismanagement to let lamar leave - we have to find a way to see this through to the end - can't just let him leave with a bunch of "what ifs"
 
...pay him a billion dollars over a billion years, like Bobby Bonilla got from the Mets. While he's retired, sitting on the NFL Gameday set when he's 50, he's still getting 125K from us with that cap hit on the 2054 team... something like that. It's like the 401K that keeps giving and giving and giving and bonilla-ing and bonilla-ing... ;)
:D

haha - you can only pro-rate over 5 years lol
otherwise super rich owners who are willing to give out tons of bonus money to win would be giving out 20 year contracts to guys that are only gonna play 2 years just to prorate the money
 
See, this is where us mere fans suffer! I don't know the total ins and outs, man, of the f@cking abilities these rich guys can pay their players! :)

So sign him to a 25 year contract that pays him a whatever the going rate is now. Something less than Doucheshawn Watson yearly, but overall a haul for Lamar.

You get where, I'm going, Ross? Think Bobby Bonilla...
 
See, this is where us mere fans suffer! I don't know the total ins and outs, man, of the f@cking abilities these rich guys can pay their players! ^_^

So sign him to a 25 year contract that pays him a whatever the going rate is now. Something less than Doucheshawn Watson yearly, but overall a haul for Lamar.

You get where, I'm going, Ross? Think Bobby Bonilla...

idk who that is lol
 
Well, I'm gonna chime in here just to have Ross tell me how I'm wrong or that it won't work. ^_^

I think we can sign Lamar. I want to. I agree with everyone here that he's a franchise QB; the best we've ever drafted - or the Browns lineage ever has too. Where I think we win is in offering a guaranteed contract like a Bobby Bonilla deal. We say, "Hey listen, Lamar, you're our guy. We hope we're your team. Let's do this: we're going to give you a guaranteed amount over the next 6 (7) years. It's not going to match the yearly of Mister Massage, but it will eclipse it over all. We wanna have the ability to keep a championship caliber team around you..." blah, blah, blah.

In the contract, as in baseball, after year 4 (5) there is arbitration. If he meets/exceeds performance criteria he can escalate the payday. The Ravens would have to remain vigilant in offering new deals to him to extend the life of the contract. But with a structure like that it might work.

What we can't have is his deal hamstringing the team overall. And if there is an injury and he can't be "Lamar," then there has to be a reasonable exit where he still gets paid and we aren't crippled by living up to it.

It could even be that we agree to yearly arbitration in years 1-5, but not 6-10 or vice versa. The agreement being that he remains in the top 5-8 als paid QB's in the league for the length of the contract. Be creative is all I'm saying.

And if he can't agree to any of that then send him to the Dolphins, Raiders, Skins, Texicans or whoever wants to pony up draft picks galore to get him and we'll go on without him.
I'm pretty sure what you're describing isn't allowed in the NFL. Arbitration, like you reference from MLB, isn't a real thing. It's used for player disputes over value, not for negotiating contracts.
In terms of salary deferrals, it really doesn't matter. The CBA doesn't allow you to defer salary cap space for decades.
The maximum amount you can prorate any bonus for is 5 years. So even if you gave him a $500M signing bonus, and paid it out over 50 years, it'll still count $500M by the end of year 5 against the cap.

Plus annuities like they do in MLB, like the one Bonilla signed, are generally terrible for the player, which is why it's not really as common anymore.
 
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