Lamar Jackson

[ravenslord]

I think we should offer Lamar a 10 year 450,000,001 dollar contract , one dollar more than Mahomes , with 31% of it fully guaranteed

31% fully guaranteed is what Mahomes got 2 years ago.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think we should offer Lamar a 10 year 450,000,001 dollar contract , one dollar more than Mahomes , with 31% of it fully guaranteed

31% fully guaranteed is what Mahomes got 2 years ago.

You can offer it. He'll decline, but you can offer it.

 

[UPennChem]

Jeff tweeted that the Ravens are willing to make Jackson the second or 3rd highest paid QB but not 1

 

[QtR Nevermore]

What does 2nd or 3rd highest paid mean? Is it in AAV, guarantees or total contract value? The offer would only be 2nd/3rd one of those metrics, I expect, because Zriebec loves to put a team-friendly slant on things.

Anything less than the #1 highest contract in AAV seems a bit lowball to me. We know Mahomes and probably Allen will have higher total values because of the length of their deals. We know Rapey Watson will have the highest guarantees, but the next guy up, whether that's Lamar, Burrow or Herbert are justified in expecting the highest AAV, because that's how it goes with top QB contracts.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Jeff tweeted that the Ravens are willing to make Jackson the second or 3rd highest paid QB but not 1

I can't really say its "new news" though.
Like the "offer" everybody talked about was that it was more than Kyler. Well Kyler is #3 in AAV and #3 in gtd $ at signing.

I assume in this case "most money upfront" means guaranteed $ at signing, in which case they'd need to be north of $125M to top Wilson (but obviously nowhere close to topping Watson).

If "most money upfront" means highest signing bonus, I suppose that's possible, though I kind of doubt it. Dak's signing bonus was $66M. So if the Ravens are topping that, that's like $70M signing bonus, which is a monstrous cash outlay in one year. Can't say the Ravens wouldn't do it, but that seems like a stretch to me.

 

[rmcjacket23]

What does 2nd or 3rd highest paid mean? Is it in AAV, guarantees or total contract value? The offer would only be 2nd/3rd one of those metrics, I expect, because Zriebec loves to put a team-friendly slant on things.

Anything less than the #1 highest contract in AAV seems a bit lowball to me. We know Mahomes and probably Allen will have higher total values because of the length of their deals. We know Rapey Watson will have the highest guarantees, but the next guy up, whether that's Lamar, Burrow or Herbert are justified in expecting the highest AAV, because that's how it goes with top QB contracts.

Possibly. If its total contract value, it means they're in the $250M range for total contract. So I would think they're in the 5/$250M range or possibly 6/$300M range. Which is where I think everybody expected it to be.

Then the question is how much gtd $ and what it looks like.

Honestly the AAV at this point shouldn't matter to players. Its nothing more than an "ego play" for them. Plus at the rate these discussions are going, Lamar's status as the #1 AAV wouldn't even last a year. May last a few months or even weeks.

 

[QtR Nevermore]

Possibly. If its total contract value, it means they're in the $250M range for total contract. So I would think they're in the 5/$250M range or possibly 6/$300M range. Which is where I think everybody expected it to be.

Then the question is how much gtd $ and what it looks like.

Honestly the AAV at this point shouldn't matter to players. Its nothing more than an "ego play" for them. Plus at the rate these discussions are going, Lamar's status as the #1 AAV wouldn't even last a year. May last a few months or even weeks.

I think Zriebec's still talking about last year's a little bit higher than Kyler offer. Murray's gets $47M in AAV now, so slightly beating that would put Lamar 3rd. A little bit of contract funny business would make it arguable, but not accurate, to say his deal is higher than Wilson's $49M in 2nd place, and I think that's where Zriebec gets his 2nd/3rd from.

If anyone thinks that's a tempting offer for Lamar or that the Ravens are doing all they can to sign him, they're drunk.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think Zriebec's still talking about last year's a little bit higher than Kyler offer. Murray's gets $47M in AAV now, so slightly beating that would put Lamar 3rd. A little bit of contract funny business would make it arguable, but not accurate, to say his deal is higher than Wilson's $49M in 2nd place, and I think that's where Zriebec gets his 2nd/3rd from.

If anyone thinks that's a tempting offer for Lamar or that the Ravens are doing all they can to sign him, they're drunk.

I mean OK, then what is a tempting offer for Lamar? Is there anything less than what Watson got that would realistically be tempting?

Like again, if Lamar's caught up in the AAV, he deserves to get fucked in the negotiations, because his camp is giving him really shitty advice. I don't even really think the Ravens care about AAV. They could give him a $60M a year average, but if the gtd $ isn't that high, they won't give a fuck, because they've mitigated all their risk.

You can tell the people who don't really understand how NFL contracts work when they think $48M a year is "insulting", but $50M a year is "just right".

What's going to drive whether its "insulting" or not is the guaranteed $. It's the only thing that matters.

Put it another way... if the Ravens offered Lamar 5 years, $200M, fully gtd. Who would think that's insulting? Note: that's at $40M AAV. If people think that's insulting, they're total morons.
And I guarantee Lamar would sprint to sign that deal.

 

[Simba]

Jeff being blunt in his replies today. Stated rather matter of factly that Lamar wanting fully guaranteed is what is holding this thing up.

 

[JAAM]

Jeff being blunt in his replies today. Stated rather matter of factly that Lamar wanting fully guaranteed is what is holding this thing up.

Well it ain’t gonna happen so something has to give lol. Personally I think he’s gone

 

[Thezone27]

You can offer it. He'll decline, but you can offer it.

He has no grounds to decline

 

[Thezone27]

I mean OK, then what is a tempting offer for Lamar? Is there anything less than what Watson got that would realistically be tempting?

Like again, if Lamar's caught up in the AAV, he deserves to get fucked in the negotiations, because his camp is giving him really shitty advice. I don't even really think the Ravens care about AAV. They could give him a $60M a year average, but if the gtd $ isn't that high, they won't give a fuck, because they've mitigated all their risk.

You can tell the people who don't really understand how NFL contracts work when they think $48M a year is "insulting", but $50M a year is "just right".

What's going to drive whether its "insulting" or not is the guaranteed $. It's the only thing that matters.

Put it another way... if the Ravens offered Lamar 5 years, $200M, fully gtd. Who would think that's insulting? Note: that's at $40M AAV. If people think that's insulting, they're total morons.
And I guarantee Lamar would sprint to sign that deal.

Well I think that that is a good deal if Lamar demands fully gtd, and there is just nothing else we can do.

 

[gtalk12]

Well I think that that is a good deal if Lamar demands fully gtd, and there is just nothing else we can do.

I don't know what you do for living, but even I negotiate for guarantees before making any move. 100% guaranteed too lol

 

[Thezone27]

I don't know what you do for living, but even I negotiate for guarantees before making any move. 100% guaranteed too lol

huh?

 

[cdp]

Jeff being blunt in his replies today. Stated rather matter of factly that Lamar wanting fully guaranteed is what is holding this thing up.

3 years fully guaranteed seems like a good deal for Lamar and the Ravens.

 

[rmcjacket23]

3 years fully guaranteed seems like a good deal for Lamar and the Ravens.

Not a great deal for the Ravens though. Severely limits what they can do from a cap perspective, i.e. lowering his cap hit for this year.
Also basically puts you in the same spot in 12-18 months. Back at the negotiating table again.

 

[rmcjacket23]

He has no grounds to decline

Sure he does. 33% guaranteed or whatever is gigantically less than the % of gtd $ that Wilson or Murray got. And their deals are more recent (which makes them more relevant).

 

[QtR Nevermore]

I mean OK, then what is a tempting offer for Lamar? Is there anything less than what Watson got that would realistically be tempting?

Like again, if Lamar's caught up in the AAV, he deserves to get fucked in the negotiations, because his camp is giving him really shitty advice. I don't even really think the Ravens care about AAV. They could give him a $60M a year average, but if the gtd $ isn't that high, they won't give a fuck, because they've mitigated all their risk.

You can tell the people who don't really understand how NFL contracts work when they think $48M a year is "insulting", but $50M a year is "just right".

What's going to drive whether its "insulting" or not is the guaranteed $. It's the only thing that matters.

Put it another way... if the Ravens offered Lamar 5 years, $200M, fully gtd. Who would think that's insulting? Note: that's at $40M AAV. If people think that's insulting, they're total morons.
And I guarantee Lamar would sprint to sign that deal.

You're replying to me but you appear to be arguing against someone else, because I didn't say any of the things you're arguing against.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You're replying to me but you appear to be arguing against someone else, because I didn't say any of the things you're arguing against.

You said that the "publicized" offer the Ravens made wasn't tempting to Lamar. I'm saying if its not tempting, then he needs to rethink his entire thought process. Including whether the people advising him are familiar with how NFL contracts work and whether his expectations are reasonable or not.
If the Kyler Murray deal isn't at least in the ballpark, then basically his entire demand essentially has to be the Watson deal. Which he isn't going to get. So if it's that, open up the phone lines.

The whole "well the Murray deal is insulting" nonsense is total bullshit. People just because they want to be next in line to scrub Lamar's balls.
The Murray deal may be too low, but if its not tempting or "insulting", then basically nothing short of that which we won't give would be considered "tempting".

 

[QtR Nevermore]

You said that the "publicized" offer the Ravens made wasn't tempting to Lamar. I'm saying if its not tempting, then he needs to rethink his entire thought process. Including whether the people advising him are familiar with how NFL contracts work and whether his expectations are reasonable or not.
If the Kyler Murray deal isn't at least in the ballpark, then basically his entire demand essentially has to be the Watson deal. Which he isn't going to get. So if it's that, open up the phone lines.

The whole "well the Murray deal is insulting" nonsense is total bullshit. People just because they want to be next in line to scrub Lamar's balls.
The Murray deal may be too low, but if its not tempting or "insulting", then basically nothing short of that which we won't give would be considered "tempting".

Why do you keep putting "insulting" in scare quotes as if I said it?

The Murray deal isn't tempting because Lamar is a much better and more accomplished QB than Murray, and like every other top QB, he will expect his new deal to be at the top of the market. Slightly beating Murray, with Burrow, Hurts and Herbert's deals waiting in the wings doesn't fit with that pattern.

Lamar is also closer to free agency than Murray and those other QBs. He risked his future earnings, bet on himself and is now in a better negotiating position than Murray was. He is a maximum of 2 years away being able to demand the moon and get it. That moves his starting point way past Year 3 Kyler - yet the Ravens made him a very similar offer. That doesn't seem like the Ravens are really serious about getting it done.