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Lamar Jackson

QtR Nevermore said:
Why do you keep putting "insulting" in scare quotes as if I said it?

The Murray deal isn't tempting because Lamar is a much better and more accomplished QB than Murray, and like every other top QB, he will expect his new deal to be at the top of the market. Slightly beating Murray, with Burrow, Hurts and Herbert's deals waiting in the wings doesn't fit with that pattern.

Lamar is also closer to free agency than Murray and those other QBs. He risked his future earnings, bet on himself and is now in a better negotiating position than Murray was. He is a maximum of 2 years away being able to demand the moon and get it. That moves his starting point way past Year 3 Kyler - yet the Ravens made him a very similar offer. That doesn't seem like the Ravens are really serious about getting it done.
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1. He's better than Murray, but he's not better than Mahomes, yet he wants to be paid more. That's where the "let me slot in here because I'm better than X player" falls flat for me. He's also not more accomplished than Wilson, yet wants to be paid more than him. The literal only argument for that is "I'm younger".
2. If he's concerned about what the Burrow, Herbert or Hurts deals are with his deal, then he can wait and sign after they do. Me personally I wouldn't, because the only thing its going to do is slightly shift the AAV in his favor, while also greatly diminishing his bargaining power for a fully gtd contract (as now comparable players, with similar or better resumes than him, don't get fully gtd). So I'm fine if he wants to play that game... I'm just not sure its going to achieve what he wants.
3. Realistically, Lamar isn't that close to FA, because he'll likely be traded if he doesn't sign here, which means he won't get to FA. He'll just be exclusively negotiating with another team instead of the Ravens. He'll have an outside chance of getting there in two years, but most likely, any team acquiring him will already know what they're getting, and it'll just be another non-fully gtd comp that he'll have.
4. Wouldn't be so certain that in two years the market for Lamar is going to be sky high. Two more years of what we saw the last two years and he'll have a market, it just won't be a robust one or one that will make him the highest paid QB in the league.

If Lamar is really stuck on the Watson deal or close to it, it doesn't seem like he's really serious about getting it done either.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
1. He's better than Murray, but he's not better than Mahomes, yet he wants to be paid more. That's where the "let me slot in here because I'm better than X player" falls flat for me. He's also not more accomplished than Wilson, yet wants to be paid more than him. The literal only argument for that is "I'm younger".
2. If he's concerned about what the Burrow, Herbert or Hurts deals are with his deal, then he can wait and sign after they do. Me personally I wouldn't, because the only thing its going to do is slightly shift the AAV in his favor, while also greatly diminishing his bargaining power for a fully gtd contract (as now comparable players, with similar or better resumes than him, don't get fully gtd). So I'm fine if he wants to play that game... I'm just not sure its going to achieve what he wants.
3. Realistically, Lamar isn't that close to FA, because he'll likely be traded if he doesn't sign here, which means he won't get to FA. He'll just be exclusively negotiating with another team instead of the Ravens. He'll have an outside chance of getting there in two years, but most likely, any team acquiring him will already know what they're getting, and it'll just be another non-fully gtd comp that he'll have.
4. Wouldn't be so certain that in two years the market for Lamar is going to be sky high. Two more years of what we saw the last two years and he'll have a market, it just won't be a robust one or one that will make him the highest paid QB in the league.

If Lamar is really stuck on the Watson deal or close to it, it doesn't seem like he's really serious about getting it done either.
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Exactly my point.
I can't believe I just agreed with you.
 
Tank said:
Being totally honest, I don't see this "Lamar bet on himself and improved his bargaining position" thing. What exactly is on his resume the past 2 years that improved his position?
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The only two things that have improved Lamar's position in the last two years are two things he didn't and can't control... the increases to the salary cap (and corresponding increases to QB comp) and the Browns giving Watson a fully gtd deal.

He hasn't done anything on the field in the last two years to increase or decrease his value. It's the same. The external factors are what's driving up his price.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
No. In contract world, it probably doesn't matter either.
That's why the whole "I should get paid more than X player" argument falls flat. It's not about that.
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But that's what Lamar is clearly expecting as his own representative. He's comparing what he gets to the love given to others. He's valuing himself out of a good situation, but there's no one there to tell him that because he's talking to his mom on the couch while he plays Mario Cart.

This thing is at loggerheads. It's been at loggerheads. And it isn't going to move from loggerheads. If anything it gets WORSE when Hurts and Burrow get their deals. I am convinced of that. Time to cut bait.
 
Tank said:
Being totally honest, I don't see this "Lamar bet on himself and improved his bargaining position" thing. What exactly is on his resume the past 2 years that improved his position?
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I mean I don't know that he improved his position as much as he was smart enough to wait it out, which sounds weird to say. Prices only go up year after year. Same offer he got at the deadline this year is the minimum the offer started at this year, so he hasn't lost out on a penny by not signing to this point.
 
Am I reading this wrong or does Kyler Murray have 189 million guranteed?

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Tank said:
Being totally honest, I don't see this "Lamar bet on himself and improved his bargaining position" thing. What exactly is on his resume the past 2 years that improved his position?
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The only thing I could really point to is just how bad the offense was without him. But yeah, nothing in the recent seasons upped his value beyond the cap going up. He's a clear top ten QB and that will get him a big payday, but he didn't do anything on the level of Mahomes, Allen, or Burrow to get top tier, all guaranteed money yet.
 
gtalk12 said:
Am I reading this wrong or does Kyler Murray have 189 million guranteed?

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It's "practical guarantees". Basically how much $ he's guaranteed to get before the Cardinals could reasonably move on from him. Its not really "fully gtd" (i.e. what they have to pay him at signing), but its essentially how much $ he'll make before the first chance the Cardinals would/could cut him. Assuming its for injury/performance.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
It's "practical guarantees". Basically how much $ he's guaranteed to get before the Cardinals could reasonably move on from him. Its not really "fully gtd" (i.e. what they have to pay him at signing), but its essentially how much $ he'll make before the first chance the Cardinals would/could cut him. Assuming its for injury/performance.
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So if you are Lamar Jackson, what matters more? The number at signing or practical?

Bc to me it sounds the same and what changes is the "when it gets" paid.

Help me understand if you don't mind
 
ravenslord said:
Yeah Murray don't deserve it but he got it. The Cardinals & Browns are dunces and not playoff bound in the foreseeable future.
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Assuming it about the number I highlighted, there is no way you pay him less than Murray
 
RaineV1 said:
The only thing I could really point to is just how bad the offense was without him. But yeah, nothing in the recent seasons upped his value beyond the cap going up. He's a clear top ten QB and that will get him a big payday, but he didn't do anything on the level of Mahomes, Allen, or Burrow to get top tier, all guaranteed money yet.
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Lamar is in the tier right below Mahomes, Allen and Burrow. Id say he's in there with Herbert , Hurts,etc. right below the top 3 mentioned You could say hes the 4th or 5th best QB in the league right now.
So I'm sure the Ravens are willing to give him the money for being 4th .5th best QB. The guaranteed money is still the sticking point.
 
gtalk12 said:
Assuming it about the number I highlighted, there is no way you pay him less than Murray
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The Cardinals deal was almost as dumb as the Browns deal to Watson. I don't see the Ravens giving Lamar 80 % fully guaranteed money particularly as he seems to have difficulty staying on the field
 
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