The Pass Rush

[Edgar]

I'd like to know how folks here might scheme and design our pass rush based on personnel. I'm just begun to really dissect last years effort in this regard but a few things stand out upon initial inspection:

1) I'd rather Brandon Williams not be a significant part of any pass rush based on the tape I've watched. He offers next to nothing. (Pierce offers slightly more but not enough so that I'm inclined to have him on the field consistently on rush downs)
2) We can get home outside if we find the best combination of interior players that provide pressure up the gut. I believe a rotation of Wormley, Henry, Suggs and Urban are our best bet.

As a side note, Wormley has become a favorite to watch,(college tape) of late. Relentless, always has eyes in the backfield...is able to, "predict" QB'S movement. Can get skinny and split double team...is a heady rusher and can occupy two blockers in stunting. Can control and shed..good rip move..decent inside swim. Put this together with him being a good run defender and I would like to see him on the field a lot more in 2018.

I'm endeavoring to get a handle on how I would draw these things up and I am curious about the boards intuition.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

3 down, standup interior rusher with ZDS.

Suggs - henry 3T - ZDS standup - twill at wide9 unless the slot wr is on his side(explained later)

Swap henry and ZDS depending on matchups and tendencies

2 LBs, Mosley or a dime, and bowser, bowser on suggs' outside shoulder, if the slot wr is on williams' side, kick him in to the regular edge rush position and line bowser over his outside shoulder, threatening to zone drop into the hot read, or speed rush from a very wide stance from either side.

Bowser is the key here. Move him to create just as much confusion and pre snap panic as a typical 3-4 organized chaos type front, as explosive and fleet footed as he is, if he gets some better technique to his game he is gonna wreak havoc as a moving piece who can edge rush or blitz or cover, that skillset will leave qbs and tackles weary as hell

 

[allblackraven]

Hrmf - neither of you two have Judon anywhere in the picture?

 

[rossihunter2]

Schematically I want to see us emulating the Texans system on obvious passing downs

Control the matchups by getting 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS...

You have your 2 outside edge guys, a penetrating DL inside, another designated rusher stood up over the Center and either another DL or another LB

Edge DL Edge DL/LB Edge

By having those guys all at the LoS and all a threat to rush you create 1v1 matchups all the way across the line and not only that but you control the matchup - and while the above alignment would most likely be the “base” organisation for that personnel grouping you can rearrange them to create the matchups you want

And then on top of that you have at least 3 and maybe 4 LBs the LoS all of whom could rush but all of whom could drop into coverage too

The best thing is that because you have the 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS you know in advance who’s blocking who and so even if you don’t rush 5 you still can get the 1v1 matchups for the matchup you like if you drop from the right area

It makes the OL processing incredibly hard

For it to work you need guys you believe can win 1v1 matchups but it only needs 1 guy to win on each play to create a pass rush event

Personnel wise this will be lethal if tyus bowser develops...

You’d have sizzle and tyus on the outside, Judon lined up over the center, willie Henry at the line and then probably CJ also but maybe Brent urban depending on the matchup you want

You can also throw ZDS and Timmy in there but they offer less coverage disguise options I.e. the OL and QB know they’re gonna be rushing almost every time

But this particular setup would be built perfectly for the success of tyus bowser

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Schematically I want to see us emulating the Texans system on obvious passing downs

Control the matchups by getting 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS...

You have your 2 outside edge guys, a penetrating DL inside, another designated rusher stood up over the Center and either another DL or another LB

Edge DL Edge DL/LB Edge

By having those guys all at the LoS and all a threat to rush you create 1v1 matchups all the way across the line and not only that but you control the matchup - and while the above alignment would most likely be the “base” organisation for that personnel grouping you can rearrange them to create the matchups you want

And then on top of that you have at least 3 and maybe 4 LBs the LoS all of whom could rush but all of whom could drop into coverage too

The best thing is that because you have the 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS you know in advance who’s blocking who and so even if you don’t rush 5 you still can get the 1v1 matchups for the matchup you like if you drop from the right area

It makes the OL processing incredibly hard

For it to work you need guys you believe can win 1v1 matchups but it only needs 1 guy to win on each play to create a pass rush event

Personnel wise this will be lethal if tyus bowser develops...

You’d have sizzle and tyus on the outside, Judon lined up over the center, willie Henry at the line and then probably CJ also but maybe Brent urban depending on the matchup you want

You can also throw ZDS and Timmy in there but they offer less coverage disguise options I.e. the OL and QB know they’re gonna be rushing almost every time

But this particular setup would be built perfectly for the success of tyus bowser

I see you too are a man of culture

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Hrmf - neither of you two have Judon anywhere in the picture?

Judon is the base defense starter and takes a backseat to Tim Williams and tyus bowser til Suggs retires, then judon takes over in that role.

This of course is with optimism that those 2 play to their capabilities

 

[cdp]

Apparently Correa is back @ OLB according to Zrebiec. I think pass rush and 3rd down specialist is the right role for him because that's when he was at his best during his college career.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Apparently Correa is back @ OLB according to Zrebiec. I think pass rush and 3rd down specialist is the right role for him because that's when he was at his best during his college career.

..... correa now gonna steal snaps from Williams and Bowser too.

Just cut our losses. Know when to give up. Fuck

 

[Adreme]

..... correa now gonna steal snaps from Williams and Bowser too.

Just cut our losses. Know when to give up. Fuck

If they are good enough to get those snaps they will get them, there is no point in putting a worse player on the hope that what they aren't getting practice might magically click for them in game after failinf repeatedly and they will no longer be the worse player.

Yes Bowser and Williams have upside and if they can play up to that in practice they will earn snaps, if they can't then they havn't earned them.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

..... correa now gonna steal snaps from Williams and Bowser too.

Just cut our losses. Know when to give up. Fuck

Yeahh not sure how to feel about it. Correa still had the most explosive first step in his class though, I think one more shot is worth it, at least late preseason reps at his original position, see if his explosion can get him somewhere in the rotation. He doesn't have the diagnosing skills for ilb and he should've never been there.

I don't think he does anything though, he's likely gone by preseasons end

 

[Edgar]

Hrmf - neither of you two have Judon anywhere in the picture?

I like Judon rotating with Suggs as rush linebacker. Occasionally moving Suggs inside with Bowser at SAM so that all three are on the field.

 

[Edgar]

Schematically I want to see us emulating the Texans system on obvious passing downs

Control the matchups by getting 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS...

You have your 2 outside edge guys, a penetrating DL inside, another designated rusher stood up over the Center and either another DL or another LB

Edge DL Edge DL/LB Edge

By having those guys all at the LoS and all a threat to rush you create 1v1 matchups all the way across the line and not only that but you control the matchup - and while the above alignment would most likely be the “base” organisation for that personnel grouping you can rearrange them to create the matchups you want

And then on top of that you have at least 3 and maybe 4 LBs the LoS all of whom could rush but all of whom could drop into coverage too

The best thing is that because you have the 5 guys hat on hat at the LoS you know in advance who’s blocking who and so even if you don’t rush 5 you still can get the 1v1 matchups for the matchup you like if you drop from the right area

It makes the OL processing incredibly hard

For it to work you need guys you believe can win 1v1 matchups but it only needs 1 guy to win on each play to create a pass rush event

Personnel wise this will be lethal if tyus bowser develops...

You’d have sizzle and tyus on the outside, Judon lined up over the center, willie Henry at the line and then probably CJ also but maybe Brent urban depending on the matchup you want

You can also throw ZDS and Timmy in there but they offer less coverage disguise options I.e. the OL and QB know they’re gonna be rushing almost every time

But this particular setup would be built perfectly for the success of tyus bowser

I don't know that I would prefer CJ to Tim Williams in the alignment you mention.
Sure, he is more accustomed to dropping than is Tim but I'm not sure he offers as much in terms of pressure at the line.

I'm not saying they dont/won't/ought not use him as you suggest....just that if Williams can show himself more adept or more prone to dropping, he might be more effective than CJ in that role.

 

[cdp]

If they are good enough to get those snaps they will get them, there is no point in putting a worse player on the hope that what they aren't getting practice might magically click for them in game after failinf repeatedly and they will no longer be the worse player.

Yes Bowser and Williams have upside and if they can play up to that in practice they will earn snaps, if they can't then they havn't earned them.

100% and don't forget about rotation. Fresh pass rushers in the 4th quarter are money. There was no reason for Correa to stay at ILB. fewer snaps because of nickel and dime packages. Bowser, Peanut and Young are likely ahead of him.
The only pass rushers we've got are Suggs, Judon, Bowser and T-Will.

 

[DeVito52]

Judon is the base defense starter and takes a backseat to Tim Williams and tyus bowser til Suggs retires, then judon takes over in that role.

This of course is with optimism that those 2 play to their capabilities

I got destroyed on here when I said Judon would take over Suggs role lol.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeahh not sure how to feel about it. Correa still had the most explosive first step in his class though, I think one more shot is worth it, at least late preseason reps at his original position, see if his explosion can get him somewhere in the rotation. He doesn't have the diagnosing skills for ilb and he should've never been there.

I don't think he does anything though, he's likely gone by preseasons end

he's got some special teams play but not an irreplaceable amount - but he lost the ILB job straight up to a UDFA who we are looking to replace immediately so I think this might just be the coaching staff admitting that he'll never work as an ILB

i have no problem with them moving him back outside as long as he also has to go and earn those snaps

 

[rossihunter2]

I don't know that I would prefer CJ to Tim Williams in the alignment you mention.
Sure, he is more accustomed to dropping than is Tim but I'm not sure he offers as much in terms of pressure at the line.

I'm not saying they dont/won't/ought not use him as you suggest....just that if Williams can show himself more adept or more prone to dropping, he might be more effective than CJ in that role.

the exact personnel arent the most important bit of the scheme - and if CJ isn't there he'll be the off-ball linebacker behind these 5 - the reason i didnt say timmy williams was because im not sure i want him rushing from the middle and if Tyus and Sizzle are on the outside you'd have to have timmy outside Sizzle - which isnt a bad option but doesnt really fit the 5 man front above - even if timmy does show capabilities dropping i wouldnt want him dropping from over the center...

this isnt a base system of the defence this is a package that you want to role out 7 or 8 snaps a game

 

[Edgar]

this isnt a base system of the defence this is a package that you want to role out 7 or 8 snaps a game

Yes. I know.
You actually see a fair amount of C J rushing from the line of scrimmage last year. It tends not to work.
It's probably true that Tim Williams isn't best suited there either.

 

[Edgar]

View attachment 1030

We absolutely need the right personnel to provide pressure in the quarterbacks face. Here we see both edge guys win one on one vs.
left and right tackles. But we also see an interior rush that is easily handled.

I'm fairly confident we have the players to win the edge going forward in 2018 but it must be complemented inside.Here we see Judon and Tim Williams outside and Bowser, Pierce and CJ inside.
Replace with Henry, Wormley, Suggs or Urban and I suspect you see a different tale unfold.

View attachment 1031

 

[DeVito52]

View attachment 1030

We absolutely need the right personnel to provide pressure in the quarterbacks face. Here we see both edge guys win one on one vs.
left and right tackles. But we also see an interior rush that is easily handled.

I'm fairly confident we have the players to win the edge going forward in 2018 but it must be complemented inside.Here we see Judon and Tim Williams outside and Bowser, Pierce and CJ inside.
Replace with Henry, Wormley, Suggs or Urban and I suspect you see a different tale unfold.

View attachment 1031

What’s upsetting about all that is that Pierce straight up gets shut down 1v1...we need better than that

 

[Jacquouille]

Have either Judon or Tyus lined up on a guard and then either rush or drop. Suggs and TWill on the edges. Henry as the only DT lined up in a 1 or 3tech, and Mosley at the LOS wherever the fuck he likes.