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The Pass Rush
- Thread starter Edgar
- Start date
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Tbf I can recall one correa snap at OLB off the top, and it was perhaps the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. It was like a chihuahua charging at the rock and the rock just casually kicks it across the room. Vs the jags he's wide and isolated with the OT, full head of steam on a backpedaling tackle, and literally gets decleated, a little shove and both feet come off the ground and he goes down, it was like that block mike Evans laid on that bengals corner.
I remember one on the game sealing INT where he gets blatantly held by the OT.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Why would an OT have to hold him? Lol
RL52TheGreatest
Ravens Ring of Honor
Aside from blowing 4th quarter leads, the biggest knock on Pees seemed to be that he would play guys out-of-position constantly. As an example, it probably took Jefferson half the season before he started playing better in our defense because, even though he's better suited near the line of scrimmage, Pees thought it would be wise to have him stay in coverage.
Because he got past the OT?
Sandtown
Pro Bowler
I actually thought Correa could be similar to Jamie Collins who also was majorly a pass rusher in college as well. They both had good speed and ability to play in space. I honestly didn't think Correa look that out of place playing at inside linebacker but he just had trouble shredding blocks at times. It just seemed like he may have been thinking too much instead of just playing.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I just find that so shocking. Obvious mental mistake by the OT
I’ve always seen Bowser as the jimmy Collins type.
The only play I remember Correa playing was when he tipped a ball and almost came up with the interception. It was in his rookie yr
That was a Jags OT, not Joe Thomas.
That's maybe just me, but I don't understand people wanting players to get cut. These guys are grinding more every season than we'll do in a lifetime. All because they believe in themselves and in their dreams.
Who tf are we to tell them they deserve to get cut? I'll get mad at the coach for not putting the players I think deserve a bigger chance but I'll never blame it on ZDS or Correa or Perriman because God knows they've done all they could to be NFL starters.
Who tf are we to tell them they deserve to get cut? I'll get mad at the coach for not putting the players I think deserve a bigger chance but I'll never blame it on ZDS or Correa or Perriman because God knows they've done all they could to be NFL starters.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
They are not all to blame, but we actually don't know if they've put forth their best effort and trying hard doesn't make someone good. I get what you're saying, though. Hope the best man gets the job, don't wish for someone to fail.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Same. Some people are just spiteful and need heads to roll to satisfy them. If a guy isn't hurting our cap, and we don't have a better player to take that roster spot, let him stay until either of those 2 happen.
So about ZDS...
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
hes taking valuable reps from guys who arent proven liabilities, so he falls in one of my categories, but i also dont want him cut because hes still cheap depth. as is correa. keep him on the bench until hes actually needed, let guys who dont fall flat on their faces rush the passer.
Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
As Ive begun digging in to last years defense, and more particularly to our pass rush, my sense is that more attention is paid to overall scheme than there was to personnel(for the most part).
A few examples of what I mean; There are way too many instances where both Pierce and Williams are part of a four man pressure....often they are accompanied by Z.Smith off the edge, which to me is inexplicable.
Unless something last year was desperately off with Williams' health, he doesn't need ever to be part of a four man front to pressure a quarterback. He isn't effective. frankly, he doesn't appear very stout against the run either but that is by the way.
I've seen CJ, ten or more times at the line of scrimmage, ending up as one of four to create pressure, and not once that I saw was he effective. Its a bit like we are making something that ought to be fairly straight forward and for some reason, begin to twist it.
It need not be overly complicated. I believe we have guys to win the edge. The problem is interior pressure.
A personnel group I rather like is: (and this is all based on offensive personnel so for the sake of argument, lets say 1 TE outside right, 2receivers split out along with a slot and a back).
No-one directly over the nose with Wormley and Henry at 2 or 2I ...Suggs at Rush with Judon opposite...Bowser shading Judons left. CJ and Young at ILB with Young responsible for TE if bowser is sent...press coverage with 3 corners that, depending on the call could drop post snap into cover 3 with the FS or stay man along with Tavon.
So far as a rotation, it would be near constant. Inside I would have a rotation that consists of Suggs,Wormley, Henry, Urban...outside I would constantly matching/switching the group of Tim Williams, Bowser, Suggs, Judon.
View attachment 1038
Here is a nice Vid of Wormley beating Kyle Long with outside/inside fake...Wormley is pretty savvy both against the run and rushing inside.
(Also, a rather unfortunate miscommunication between Webb and Jefferson)
A few examples of what I mean; There are way too many instances where both Pierce and Williams are part of a four man pressure....often they are accompanied by Z.Smith off the edge, which to me is inexplicable.
Unless something last year was desperately off with Williams' health, he doesn't need ever to be part of a four man front to pressure a quarterback. He isn't effective. frankly, he doesn't appear very stout against the run either but that is by the way.
I've seen CJ, ten or more times at the line of scrimmage, ending up as one of four to create pressure, and not once that I saw was he effective. Its a bit like we are making something that ought to be fairly straight forward and for some reason, begin to twist it.
It need not be overly complicated. I believe we have guys to win the edge. The problem is interior pressure.
A personnel group I rather like is: (and this is all based on offensive personnel so for the sake of argument, lets say 1 TE outside right, 2receivers split out along with a slot and a back).
No-one directly over the nose with Wormley and Henry at 2 or 2I ...Suggs at Rush with Judon opposite...Bowser shading Judons left. CJ and Young at ILB with Young responsible for TE if bowser is sent...press coverage with 3 corners that, depending on the call could drop post snap into cover 3 with the FS or stay man along with Tavon.
So far as a rotation, it would be near constant. Inside I would have a rotation that consists of Suggs,Wormley, Henry, Urban...outside I would constantly matching/switching the group of Tim Williams, Bowser, Suggs, Judon.
View attachment 1038
Here is a nice Vid of Wormley beating Kyle Long with outside/inside fake...Wormley is pretty savvy both against the run and rushing inside.
(Also, a rather unfortunate miscommunication between Webb and Jefferson)
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Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
I love this blitz. nothing too exotic but perfectly executed. Jefferson does a nice job of appearing to cover the TE and Weddle disguises and times his blitz well.
View attachment 1044
From all 22 Overhead we see Carr go all the way from the line to play a deep safety in cover two just before the snap while both Mosley and Judon drop to cover curl and flat
View attachment 1043
View attachment 1044
From all 22 Overhead we see Carr go all the way from the line to play a deep safety in cover two just before the snap while both Mosley and Judon drop to cover curl and flat
View attachment 1043
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
That is the pees defense in a nutshell, if I could pick 2 plays to describe the pees defense it would be this one and 4th and 12 vs cinci. We left guys in very questionable positions but it worked out because the double safety blitz got home and the qb didn't catch weddle leaving his zone and wasn't able to exploit brandon carrs super deep coverage. On the other hand, let one qb know what's coming due to film study, and it's a big play, and one misstep from anyone and tha big play becomes a TD.
Those blitzes are nice from time to time, but I'd rather have real edge rushers edge rushing and safeties covering, pees leaned way too heavily on db and ilb blitzes and gave guys like ZDS the edge rush role, while simply not subbing out bwill and pierce enough. Replace bwill with henry, pierce with Davis or wormley, and ZDS with bowser or Timmy, and let them hunt, whatever their issues may be i guarantee with certainty that they will be more effective as a 4 man front on passing snaps than Suggs, Williams, henry, and ZDS. We are fielding 2 NTs and a complete liability on the edge, far too often.
Henry needs to become the primary interior rusher, period, and we have to replace ZDS and whoever else we have beside henry at DT
Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
In this case it was well called and well executed. The back end zone coverage is actually perfect. The fact that Jefferson is not identified by protection or by Manuel is what gets the sack but even if Jefferson is picked up, the coverage was perfectly executed.
I too am concerned about most things you mention. Mosley spent way too much time flittering around the line in Pees' scheme. He didn't provide pressure taking on interior players from the line and he was oft times asked by Pees to make ridiculous drops just before the ball is snapped and I see him, as a result being too often a step or two late in coverage.
The Cinci play you mentioned perfectly articulates your point.
View attachment 1045
We see Judon with a really exceptional outside rush, Suggs creating pressure but seemingly not even a plan up the middle....just nothing to prevent Dalton stepping up. Frankly, Henry has to win here and I'm not sure what he and Smith are doing. Never mind the fact that Canady, when you see the tape is riddled with indecision and has no business playing deep half until he does.
I don't KNOW that we have a guy who can bring interior pressure consistently. It isn't, based on what I have seen coming from Pierce or Williams though I hold out some hope for Pierce. I like Urban a pretty good bit but there just isn't enough of him rushing that I've found. Im hopeful about Wormley.
I like Henry Urban and Wormley along with speed off the edge. I have some concerns about Bowser as a rusher. Im hoping Tim (not sure when it became Timmy) Williams is a good deal stronger this year and more snaps bring more diversity in his pass rush....he really does show great inside counter in college but so far I only observe him trying to win outside. He can usually get a step but many of his college go to's once he does don't work in the NFL.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
the key thing about Tim Williams is that he is very flexible and balanced around the arc of the edge, 2nd in a class loaded with edge rushers in that regard imo after Barnett. Also with his powerful base/core/legs he should be able to bullrush effectively after bulking up the arms and shoulders. As long as he's committed I have zero worries