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The Pass Rush

cdp

cdp

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Edgar said:
In this case it was well called and well executed. The back end zone coverage is actually perfect. The fact that Jefferson is not identified by protection or by Manuel is what gets the sack but even if Jefferson is picked up, the coverage was perfectly executed.

I too am concerned about most things you mention. Mosley spent way too much time flittering around the line in Pees' scheme. He didn't provide pressure taking on interior players from the line and he was oft times asked by Pees to make ridiculous drops just before the ball is snapped and I see him, as a result being too often a step or two late in coverage.

The Cinci play you mentioned perfectly articulates your point.
View attachment 1045
We see Judon with a really exceptional outside rush, Suggs creating pressure but seemingly not even a plan up the middle....just nothing to prevent Dalton stepping up. Frankly, Henry has to win here and I'm not sure what he and Smith are doing. Never mind the fact that Canady, when you see the tape is riddled with indecision and has no business playing deep half until he does.

I don't KNOW that we have a guy who can bring interior pressure consistently. It isn't, based on what I have seen coming from Pierce or Williams though I hold out some hope for Pierce. I like Urban a pretty good bit but there just isn't enough of him rushing that I've found. Im hopeful about Wormley.

I like Henry Urban and Wormley along with speed off the edge. I have some concerns about Bowser as a rusher. Im hoping Tim (not sure when it became Timmy) Williams is a good deal stronger this year and more snaps bring more diversity in his pass rush....he really does show great inside counter in college but so far I only observe him trying to win outside. He can usually get a step but many of his college go to's once he does don't work in the NFL.
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Guy and Jernigan played on obvious passing downs in the past. After trading or not extending those two it was Urbans job. After Urbans and Williams injury Henry stepped up. But Henry played too many running/early down snaps and got exhausted. ZDS is ok as an interior rusher, but there are way too plays where he provides no pass rush at all.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Edgar said:
Frankly, Henry has to win here and I'm not sure what he and Smith are doing.
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it doesnt even look like a rush - henry gets a small bit of push on his guy but doesnt really do anything but watch dalton
ZDS gets punched by the lineman and gives up...

it just looks weird like low effort plays idk... ZDS literally does nothing and Henry hardly even tries to disengage at all
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

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JoeyFlex5 said:
the key thing about Tim Williams is that he is very flexible and balanced around the arc of the edge, 2nd in a class loaded with edge rushers in that regard imo after Barnett. Also with his powerful base/core/legs he should be able to bullrush effectively after bulking up the arms and shoulders. As long as he's committed I have zero worries
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and being 2nd in the class to barnett is nothing to be sniffed at - he has rare bend
 
Edgar

Edgar

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JoeyFlex5 said:
the key thing about Tim Williams is that he is very flexible and balanced around the arc of the edge, 2nd in a class loaded with edge rushers in that regard imo after Barnett. Also with his powerful base/core/legs he should be able to bullrush effectively after bulking up the arms and shoulders. As long as he's committed I have zero worries
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He has tremendous potential. I have to say though, that I have not seen an ability to flatten out and bee line to the quarterback once he gets a step/angle. He instead is very rounded in his path to the quarterback and is perhaps a little out of control.
Perhaps I need to go back to his college tape or I've simply not caught it from last year.

I'd say based on last year that his burst is best served by accompanying inside push. I know, however that he has a repertoire he hadn't the opportunity to show last year. I'd also consider him fairly heady and it might be a matter of a few sets in a row (or more), before he figures how he wants to set up/beat a tackle.
 
Edgar

Edgar

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rossihunter2 said:
it doesnt even look like a rush - henry gets a small bit of push on his guy but doesnt really do anything but watch dalton
ZDS gets punched by the lineman and gives up...

it just looks weird like low effort plays idk... ZDS literally does nothing and Henry hardly even tries to disengage at all
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I can't figure it.
 
RaineV1

RaineV1

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I'm really hoping Seiler can bring the heat as a 3-4 DE and get us some interior rush. At the very least give us the ability to swap back and forth between him and Henry to keep the line fresh.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Edgar said:
He has tremendous potential. I have to say though, that I have not seen an ability to flatten out and bee line to the quarterback once he gets a step/angle. He instead is very rounded in his path to the quarterback and is perhaps a little out of control.
Perhaps I need to go back to his college tape or I've simply not caught it from last year.

I'd say based on last year that his burst is best served by accompanying inside push. I know, however that he has a repertoire he hadn't the opportunity to show last year. I'd also consider him fairly heady and it might be a matter of a few sets in a row (or more), before he figures how he wants to set up/beat a tackle.
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he doesnt flatten well, to flatten/shorten the edge you need some good upper body/core strength and be very light on the feet, hes a LITTLE heavy footed(not too bad) but he doesnt have the strongest upper body and core, a lot of his power comes from his hips and legs, he needs a bit of a "coil up" from his lower body to generate power and doesnt really have the arm/shoulder strength to be able to deliver that violent punch and stagger the OT and keep distance, like a Barnett who flattens the edge incredibly well.

where he bends well at the arc of the route is a shoulder dip and ability to swivel around the tackles outside shoulder without losing any speed, emphasis on that last part, his burst and pursuit are what his game are built on, he finishes strong and its because hes able to execute his bend without losing much speed, giving him some great closing speed. the rest of his game in college was speed to power, burst, and inside counters, he can use all of those in the nfl and its a shame he didnt get to work on the field and use his decently well rounded skillset.

if he build some muscle in his arms and shoulders and gives himself some power that he can quickly throw around, and trusts his inside counter, spin move, and the occasional bullrush generated from his lower body, just to keep them guessing, then i think thats when he bursts onto the scene. im disappointed in his first year, but i saw the flashes, maybe it was pees', maybe he just wasnt quite ready, but i fully expect him to blow up sooner or later.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Edgar said:
View attachment 1047

Quality rep off the edge for Tim Williams. Engages, controls tackles hands and dips under and wins the edge. Webb cleans up.
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Perfect example lol, burst gives him a good angle, attack the outside shoulder with a really good speed to power conversion, dips and pivots to bend the edge. And if it wasn't for the rb coming across to pick him up then he gets that sack and possibly even a fumble

And this isn't rare for him, he did this pretty often on his very limited pure pass rush snaps. I really think he's a secret at this point and in year 2 or 3 he's gonna take the league by storm and everyone will be like wtf?
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

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JoeyFlex5 said:
Perfect example lol, burst gives him a good angle, attack the outside shoulder with a really good speed to power conversion, dips and pivots to bend the edge. And if it wasn't for the rb coming across to pick him up then he gets that sack and possibly even a fumble

And this isn't rare for him, he did this pretty often on his very limited pure pass rush snaps. I really think he's a secret at this point and in year 2 or 3 he's gonna take the league by storm and everyone will be like wtf?
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That reminds me of the rep I’ve got giphed on my profile here - and also the rep he had vs Joe Thomas in week 2 in the 4th quarter too
 
Edgar

Edgar

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rossihunter2 said:
That reminds me of the rep I’ve got giphed on my profile here - and also the rep he had vs Joe Thomas in week 2 in the 4th quarter too
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I was surprised how many snaps Williams took in week two. I've been watching a fair amount of our pressures and personnel the past few weeks and of late have been tuning into Tim Williams.

Here is a great swat and swim to beat Thomas inside. I'm pretty sure I can see Thomas grab the back of Tim's jersey and that that is what stops him from finishing. A nice move nonetheless.
View attachment 1050
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Edgar said:
I was surprised how many snaps Williams took in week two. I've been watching a fair amount of our pressures and personnel the past few weeks and of late have been tuning into Tim Williams.

Here is a great swat and swim to beat Thomas inside. I'm pretty sure I can see Thomas grab the back of Tim's jersey and that that is what stops him from finishing. A nice move nonetheless.
View attachment 1050
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man im loving these gifs your putting together
 
Edgar

Edgar

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rossihunter2 said:
man im loving these gifs your putting together
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Good! I'm fascinated with this stuff so I'm real happy to hear it isn't annoying. There are some Gifs showing stuff that Tim needs work on as well that I will put up. Of course, I am anxious to learn from what the rest of you see.

I have begun a careful look at Urban...a little of Bowser and Wormley but right now I am stuck on Tim.
View attachment 1052
Here is a rush just before Tim gets Thomas. A thing I like here is that he keeps his eyes on the QB and does at least attempt to influence the throw. Thomas gets there first and Tim can't get off of him.

View attachment 1053
The very next play.

side note: I'm coming away very impressed with Anthony Levine generally.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Edgar said:
Good! I'm fascinated with this stuff so I'm real happy to hear it isn't annoying. There are some Gifs showing stuff that Tim needs work on as well that I will put up. Of course, I am anxious to learn from what the rest of you see.

I have begun a careful look at Urban...a little of Bowser and Wormley but right now I am stuck on Tim.
View attachment 1052
Here is a rush just before Tim gets Thomas. A thing I like here is that he keeps his eyes on the QB and does at least attempt to influence the throw. Thomas gets there first and Tim can't get off of him.

View attachment 1053
The very next play.

side note: I'm coming away very impressed with Anthony Levine generally.
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That second gif is the snap I remember from that game because it’s a style of edge rush that we haven’t seen from the ravens since doom in 2014
 
Jacquouille

Jacquouille

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Supporter
rossihunter2 said:
That second gif is the snap I remember from that game because it’s a style of edge rush that we haven’t seen from the ravens since doom in 2014
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That's exactly what I thought when we selected him. Before that I honestly thought we refused to take speed rushers
 
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