The Ugly, The Ugly and The Win I Guess???

[rmcjacket23]

Yesterday’s tape didn’t show that

Yesterday's tape is also just one game of tape, and it was against a team that doesn't really have an impressive defense or pass rush.

You do realize that pretty much the entire reason we beat the Bengals earlier this season was because their offensive line was total shit? And we didn't have the pass rush personnel we have today either.

I'll say something nobody else will say either... I'd much, much, much rather play KC in the playoffs than Buffalo or, right now, Cincinnati. Bengals and Bills have two very good defenses. KC does not. KC's path to the SB is either winning shoot-outs, or their defense is going to have to step up and play significantly better than what I've seen this year. And I think its a personnel issue, so I wouldn't bank on it getting fixed either.

Ravens can't score right now. The last thing I want is to play a team with a solid defense, because then our defense has to give up like 17-20 or less to win.

Like we're going to perform better on offense against Pittsburgh than we did against Denver. Maybe significantly better. I bet we'll score at least 20 points. With or without Lamar. Denver's defense is, in my opinion, the best in football, and that's what happens when you have a backup QB playing with limited skill positions weapons vs a great defense.

And in the playoffs, we need to hope we play teams with weaker defenses. That includes KC, Miami, and maybe Tennessee to a certain extent.

 

[gtalk12]

For this offseason:
1. I'm still not caving to the Watson-level contract demands (if that's what Lamar is asking for). If he won't move off it, franchise tag it is.
2. I think Roman is going to have to be gone one way or another. Hopefully he takes the Stanford job so that everybody "saves face", but pending some offensive surge here in the last month, we can't run it back with him. It just seems like the best we've seen from him on this team is in the past, not in the future.
3. They need to add a couple playmakers on offense. Don't really care if that's a playmaking RB with another WR, or two WRs. But it's becoming pretty clear to everybody that our personnel at WR and, this year, at RB, isn't good enough. I'll be the first to say RBs are a dime a dozen, but Edwards has no burst left it seems, Drake is just a total JAG in this league, and we can't expect anything remotely resembling "return to form" from Dobbins.

1. The pay for me is going to come down to a few things. I don't mind telling him to take alittle less IF and only IF the commitment is going to be to bring him weapons that are going to help this offense that can manage to do nothing without hero ball. If we are going to continue to prioritize the defense and continue with Roman then pay him whatever he wants.

2. History tells us that at every stop he is great at installing an offense that somewhat helps a dual threat QB, however what he can't do to adjust the offense in the passing game well as the tape becomes more readily available.

3. Back to point one. If we are going to prioritize defense and stay with Roman then we need to pay Lamar everything he is asking for. I don't believe that there is a QB asked to do more than Lamar Jackson considering what he has been given on offense these last few years. OR we commit to offense and retooling it. Negotiate with him and remind him he wants to be able to compete all the time. He said he wanted to be like Tom Brady for us, then if thats the case convince him to take something that's "friendly" but commit to him. Give him an OC and bring some weapons to him.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Wack ass

 

[cobrajet]

He thought be was cool screaming that dumb ass shit

Fans can want one thing, but we don’t own the team and can’t make their decisions. The only power we have is remove our support, but then we risk losing the team entirely. The man in the video was very verbally abusive. As much as I want a coaching change, the man has a wife and three children. We shouldn’t be up close and personal, screaming threats at the guy.

 

[redrum52]

Did anyone else think the sack that injured Lamar was a personal foul?

I saw it a few times and isn't the rule now,unlike many years ago, where you cant bring down your full weight on the QB ?

Here's the rule: a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down or land on top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap up the passer with the defensive player’s arms and not land on the passer with all or most of his body weight.

Na. Clean tackle on a bad play where everything was covered. I wondered why his "clock" didn't go off that play then saw endzone view with the routes. I think we had 2 extra blockers too.

 

[gtalk12]

You a bozo for sticking around to boo Roman.


Shit is weird. Defending that kind of behavior simply because Roman makes money is the dumbest shit on the planet.

 

[OURavensFan]

Yesterday's tape is also just one game of tape, and it was against a team that doesn't really have an impressive defense or pass rush.

You do realize that pretty much the entire reason we beat the Bengals earlier this season was because their offensive line was total shit? And we didn't have the pass rush personnel we have today either.

I'll say something nobody else will say either... I'd much, much, much rather play KC in the playoffs than Buffalo or, right now, Cincinnati. Bengals and Bills have two very good defenses. KC does not. KC's path to the SB is either winning shoot-outs, or their defense is going to have to step up and play significantly better than what I've seen this year. And I think its a personnel issue, so I wouldn't bank on it getting fixed either.

Ravens can't score right now. The last thing I want is to play a team with a solid defense, because then our defense has to give up like 17-20 or less to win.

Like we're going to perform better on offense against Pittsburgh than we did against Denver. Maybe significantly better. I bet we'll score at least 20 points. With or without Lamar. Denver's defense is, in my opinion, the best in football, and that's what happens when you have a backup QB playing with limited skill positions weapons vs a great defense.

And in the playoffs, we need to hope we play teams with weaker defenses. That includes KC, Miami, and maybe Tennessee to a certain extent.

I agree with that because KC’s defense is poor. Cincinnati line may be geling tho, it’s becoming more than just this last game. It’s held up well and they run the ball well too recently

 

[gtalk12]

I agree with that because KC’s defense is poor. Cincinnati line may be geling tho, it’s becoming more than just this last game. It’s held up well and they run the ball well too recently

Cincy spent alot of money on that O-line. They started slow but have gotten better.

 

[rmcjacket23]

1. The pay for me is going to come down to a few things. I don't mind telling him to take alittle less IF and only IF the commitment is going to be to bring him weapons that are going to help this offense that can manage to do nothing without hero ball. If we are going to continue to prioritize the defense and continue with Roman then pay him whatever he wants.

2. History tells us that at every stop he is great at installing an offense that somewhat helps a dual threat QB, however what he can't do to adjust the offense in the passing game well as the tape becomes more readily available.

3. Back to point one. If we are going to prioritize defense and stay with Roman then we need to pay Lamar everything he is asking for. I don't believe that there is a QB asked to do more than Lamar Jackson considering what he has been given on offense these last few years. OR we commit to offense and retooling it. Negotiate with him and remind him he wants to be able to compete all the time. He said he wanted to be like Tom Brady for us, then if thats the case convince him to take something that's "friendly" but commit to him. Give him an OC and bring some weapons to him.

Well to be clear, I don't really think fans can make the argument that the Ravens are "prioritizing defense" at this point. Like the best you can say is they emphasized it more in this particular offseason, if nothing else because last year was probably one of the worst Ravens defenses in the history of the league, and if you added playmakers to the offense, it wouldn't have mattered, because all we'd do is lose a bunch of games 35-30.

What's clear is that, from 2018 through basically 2021, the Ravens prioritized growing the offense through the draft. 17 draft picks on day 1 and day 2 during those four years, and 11 of them were on offense (Lamar, two TEs, four WRs, a RB and 3 Olineman). That's basically a GIGANTIC investment by a FO in one side of the ball.

The problem is... a lot of those players didn't work out. Hurst wasn't special, Dobbins has been injured, Boykin was dreadful, Duvernay hasn't amounted to much, Hollywood is gone, and Cleveland/Phillips have been total busts to this point.

Conversely, during that time period, the defense continued to age, and we continued to use FA to plug in veterans in several spots. We spent like 4-5 years doing nothing but signing veterans on the DLine and at ILB. And I posted maybe a half dozen times in the last 18 months, but I told people that this was going to flip soon. That the FO was going to be forced to start drafting defensive-heavier, because they couldn't afford not to.

Now, as for this offseason, I think they'll focus a bit more on offense, because I think that's where most of the holes will be. I think Corner is still going to be a major ? going into next season, but I think its impossible to look at the roster and not see that WR and RB are probably 2 of the 3 biggest holes. And so I think they'll be the focal point.

 

[Deebo813]

TBF the roster was not great in 2019 as well, but they produced.. I believe the skill position starters rotated in some form of Andrews, Boyle, Snead, Boykin, Hollywood, and Ingram. None of those guys were world beaters, even Andrews was justing starting to turn into the monster we know and love now. I don't expect them to repeat 2019, but I expect a competent offense, especially when the leader of that unit is likely asking to be the highest paid player in the NFL.

I completely acknowledge the lack of skill players plays a big part in the offensive/Lamar woes but there are times though when you can tell Lamar is just off. IDK if its injury related, personnel related, regression, disdain for this offense, or the pressure to play perfect with impending contract negotiations. Likely a little bit of everything, but were kidding ourselves if we think Lamar has played at the level appropriate for a QB asking top dollar.

The 2019 was simply cause of lamar and the scheme that defenses couldnt really get around.

 

[Deebo813]

Yesterday's tape is also just one game of tape, and it was against a team that doesn't really have an impressive defense or pass rush.

You do realize that pretty much the entire reason we beat the Bengals earlier this season was because their offensive line was total shit? And we didn't have the pass rush personnel we have today either.

I'll say something nobody else will say either... I'd much, much, much rather play KC in the playoffs than Buffalo or, right now, Cincinnati. Bengals and Bills have two very good defenses. KC does not. KC's path to the SB is either winning shoot-outs, or their defense is going to have to step up and play significantly better than what I've seen this year. And I think its a personnel issue, so I wouldn't bank on it getting fixed either.

Ravens can't score right now. The last thing I want is to play a team with a solid defense, because then our defense has to give up like 17-20 or less to win.

Like we're going to perform better on offense against Pittsburgh than we did against Denver. Maybe significantly better. I bet we'll score at least 20 points. With or without Lamar. Denver's defense is, in my opinion, the best in football, and that's what happens when you have a backup QB playing with limited skill positions weapons vs a great defense.

And in the playoffs, we need to hope we play teams with weaker defenses. That includes KC, Miami, and maybe Tennessee to a certain extent.

Ive said same thing.. id rather play kc than bills and bengals..we dnt stand a chance vs bills, unless allen or diggs are out

 

[gtalk12]

Well to be clear, I don't really think fans can make the argument that the Ravens are "prioritizing defense" at this point. Like the best you can say is they emphasized it more in this particular offseason, if nothing else because last year was probably one of the worst Ravens defenses in the history of the league, and if you added playmakers to the offense, it wouldn't have mattered, because all we'd do is lose a bunch of games 35-30.

What's clear is that, from 2018 through basically 2021, the Ravens prioritized growing the offense through the draft. 17 draft picks on day 1 and day 2 during those four years, and 11 of them were on offense (Lamar, two TEs, four WRs, a RB and 3 Olineman). That's basically a GIGANTIC investment by a FO in one side of the ball.

The problem is... a lot of those players didn't work out. Hurst wasn't special, Dobbins has been injured, Boykin was dreadful, Duvernay hasn't amounted to much, Hollywood is gone, and Cleveland/Phillips have been total busts to this point.

Conversely, during that time period, the defense continued to age, and we continued to use FA to plug in veterans in several spots. We spent like 4-5 years doing nothing but signing veterans on the DLine and at ILB. And I posted maybe a half dozen times in the last 18 months, but I told people that this was going to flip soon. That the FO was going to be forced to start drafting defensive-heavier, because they couldn't afford not to.

Now, as for this offseason, I think they'll focus a bit more on offense, because I think that's where most of the holes will be. I think Corner is still going to be a major ? going into next season, but I think its impossible to look at the roster and not see that WR and RB are probably 2 of the 3 biggest holes. And so I think they'll be the focal point.

I liked this draft we just had give or take Round 2 with Ojabo.

We sunk a ton of money into that bozo from Seattle which at the time looked good. Big signing with Williams this offseason and the trade for R. Smith. So that's where I am coming from with that. Very difficult to find a receiver in free agency, so it was never going to come from there. It would be draft or trade.

Other then that, I agree with you 100%. Would not be surprised if we took a WR first and nabbed a CB in the later rounds.

 

[allblackraven]

The 2019 was simply cause of lamar and the scheme that defenses couldnt really get around.

Nah. We had awesome O line + Boyle, really good backfield, passable WR group, better TE group and we were healthy all year.

 

[rmcjacket23]

1. The pay for me is going to come down to a few things. I don't mind telling him to take alittle less IF and only IF the commitment is going to be to bring him weapons that are going to help this offense that can manage to do nothing without hero ball. If we are going to continue to prioritize the defense and continue with Roman then pay him whatever he wants.

2. History tells us that at every stop he is great at installing an offense that somewhat helps a dual threat QB, however what he can't do to adjust the offense in the passing game well as the tape becomes more readily available.

3. Back to point one. If we are going to prioritize defense and stay with Roman then we need to pay Lamar everything he is asking for. I don't believe that there is a QB asked to do more than Lamar Jackson considering what he has been given on offense these last few years. OR we commit to offense and retooling it. Negotiate with him and remind him he wants to be able to compete all the time. He said he wanted to be like Tom Brady for us, then if thats the case convince him to take something that's "friendly" but commit to him. Give him an OC and bring some weapons to him.

And in terms of Lamar, honestly, the franchise tag just makes all the fucking sense in the world for me.
For starters, if you're changing OC's, which I think we will and should, the franchise tag gets you one (or two) years to figure out if the OC was really the problem (i.e. if Lamar really is a world-beater just being held back by a bad OC). If you go another year or two and there's no growth in the offense, then it just becomes a pretty simple process of "here's our price tag... take it or leave it", and if he doesn't like it, you trade him away and that's that.

I'm also in the small group of people who thinks Lamar doesn't mind at all if he's tagged next year, and may actually be preferring it over a long term deal potentially.

 

[gtalk12]

And in terms of Lamar, honestly, the franchise tag just makes all the fucking sense in the world for me.
For starters, if you're changing OC's, which I think we will and should, the franchise tag gets you one (or two) years to figure out if the OC was really the problem (i.e. if Lamar really is a world-beater just being held back by a bad OC). If you go another year or two and there's no growth in the offense, then it just becomes a pretty simple process of "here's our price tag... take it or leave it", and if he doesn't like it, you trade him away and that's that.

I'm also in the small group of people who thinks Lamar doesn't mind at all if he's tagged next year, and may actually be preferring it over a long term deal potentially.

Only worry about the tag is what we do with R. Smith.

If we can keep him and tag Lamar then I am okay with that. Would not want to go into next season without R Smith honestly

 

[rmcjacket23]

Nah. We had awesome O line + Boyle, really good backfield, passable WR group, better TE group and we were healthy all year.

We had an awesome Oline in terms of run blocking. Not an awesome Oline in terms of pass blocking. Healthier for sure. 2019 was probably the healthiest Ravens roster I ever recall by a wide margin.

 

[gtalk12]

Nah. We had awesome O line + Boyle, really good backfield, passable WR group, better TE group and we were healthy all year.

O-line was healthy and with Yanda/Stanley looked like monsters running the ball. Spread the ball out well IMO to Hollywood, Seth Roberts, Boykin, Willie Snead and the TE group Andrews, underrated speed in Hayden, and a healthy Boyle blocking. Also had the last great year of Ingram who was a decent pass catcher.

Very healthy team

 

[rmcjacket23]

Only worry about the tag is what we do with R. Smith.

If we can keep him and tag Lamar then I am okay with that. Would not want to go into next season without R Smith honestly

For Roquan,
I think they ultimately extend him, largely because I think they're realizing at the moment that there aren't a lot of draft picks needing extensions in future short-term years, because a lot of the draft picks haven't lived up. If you break it down:
2019 class: Powers is actually scheduled to be a UFA, and has played well. I'd like to see him stay, but feels like a luxury we can't afford if we tag Lamar. So he's likely gone.
2020: You still get 1 (or 2) more years of Queen, and one more year of Madubuike, Dobbins, and Duvernay. Can't say any of these guys warrant material, long-term, deals. Honestly of the group I'd rather keep Madubuike, but he probably won't be ridiculously expensive. Signing Roquan ends pretty much ends any chance of an extension for Queen, also.
2021: Still 2-3 years away from handing out extensions to those guys, but jury is still very much out on Bateman and Oweh long term.

So realistically, there ain't a lot of "drafted" players warranting significant extensions in the next 2-3 years. So if you want to pay market value for Roquan, you can.

HOWEVER, extending Roquan isn't a must. I don't like the amount of draft capital we gave up to get him if we don't extend him, BUT, if you're franchising Lamar, you're not likely to be big spenders in FA next year anyway, which means Roquan can potentially fetch a 3rd or 4th round comp pick in 2024. So you'll be able to reduce the draft investment for him in future years that way.

Ain't no way they traded for Roquan thinking the tag was an option for him. I think the FO knows the tag is extremely likely for Lamar, given the limited negotiating window.

 

[gtalk12]

For Roquan,
I think they ultimately extend him, largely because I think they're realizing at the moment that there aren't a lot of draft picks needing extensions in future short-term years, because a lot of the draft picks haven't lived up. If you break it down:
2019 class: Powers is actually scheduled to be a UFA, and has played well. I'd like to see him stay, but feels like a luxury we can't afford if we tag Lamar. So he's likely gone.
2020: You still get 1 (or 2) more years of Queen, and one more year of Madubuike, Dobbins, and Duvernay. Can't say any of these guys warrant material, long-term, deals. Honestly of the group I'd rather keep Madubuike, but he probably won't be ridiculously expensive. Signing Roquan ends pretty much ends any chance of an extension for Queen, also.
2021: Still 2-3 years away from handing out extensions to those guys, but jury is still very much out on Bateman and Oweh long term.

So realistically, there ain't a lot of "drafted" players warranting significant extensions in the next 2-3 years. So if you want to pay market value for Roquan, you can.

HOWEVER, extending Roquan isn't a must. I don't like the amount of draft capital we gave up to get him if we don't extend him, BUT, if you're franchising Lamar, you're not likely to be big spenders in FA next year anyway, which means Roquan can potentially fetch a 3rd or 4th round comp pick in 2024. So you'll be able to reduce the draft investment for him in future years that way.

Ain't no way they traded for Roquan thinking the tag was an option for him. I think the FO knows the tag is extremely likely for Lamar, given the limited negotiating window.

Madubuike is the only one that you mentioned that makes the most sense to me and I like Duvernay.

If we can keep R Smith then I like the tag for Lamar if they don't agree to terms this offseason.

 

[UPennChem]

Also for the Odafe Oweh isn't trash crowd, here are his snap counts over the year.

68
58
57
61 when JPP came in
55
37
33
38 when Houston came back
29 when Bowser came back
bye
23
25
17

Obviously it's the case his snaps were always gonna decrease as the room filled out, but 17 perfectly healthy snaps is really really really low. For reference as a rookie, his low was 30. 17 is practically half the low of his rookie year.

And all that being said this was the game he got a sack lol